4000rpms slow spool for a EVO16G?

[truwarrior]

Looks like my EVO16G doesn't reach 17-18ish psi until 4000rpms. Should it be alot quicker? This is a 2nd gear pull but 3rd gears seems to be about the same.

Mods are greddy type s EBC, Hahn FMIC, RRE J pipe, Dave Brode UIP, 1G BOV, Apexi intake, Ported 2G manny, SBR hacked 02 housing (middle divider cut out), slightly ported EVO16G.

http://home.comcast.net/~gvozdjakj/spool.JPG

 

[98spydert]

Should be A LOT quicker. Have you pressure tested for boost leaks?

 

[truwarrior]

Well I hooked up a air compressor and it takes awhile to build up to 5psi, havn't tried to go much higher. When I take out the air compressor it slowly drops down to 0...very slowly...like 5-10 minutes slow.

How long should it take to hit 15 pounds of boost with a little 5 gallon air compression with it's regulator set at 20psi? I fogot it's exact flow rate...

Now that I look at it again, kinda looks like I have a leak that starts to occur mid boost.

I'll try again tomorrow and see if I can build atleast 10 psi.

I thought it was my POS ebay MBC so I upgraded to a greddy EBC but apprently doesn't seem to be helping much either.

Then again, that Hahn FMIC is a big mofo too...

 

[Thomas91169]

unported evo16g?

my buddy had a run of the mill E16G with stock 2g manifold, o2 and a huge FMIC and hit full boost(20 psi) by 3800.

i have a SBR Cast Manifold, Ported E16g with 34mm Flapper, Tubular o2 and the same FMIC as the above guys( i made his kit for him). i am able to hit 20psi by 3300rpm.

i saw better boost response after cleaning my filter(K&N filter had turned black), i was able to cut about 150rpm off spool time before i had the fmic and manifold, i would hit full boost by 3400.

also i believe its possible the hacked o2 housing is affecting your flapper from seating fully when it closes(due to backpressure pulling it out), thus taking longer to reach full boost. try getting a tubular o2(since its better than a hacked o2) and try that. i bet then youll have better spool, but will creep, but that will have to be fixed by porting the shit out of the o2 flapper ports.

 

[project_tsi]

A true E316G should hit 17-18 psi by 2800rpm. You didn't buy the Evo 3GT did you?

 

[truwarrior]

No it's not a EVoIII GT. Seriously though how long should it take to pressure test the intake system to reach 10 psi with one of those air like this one

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00915310000

 

[siceclipse]

My friend and I have a tiny ass compressor. its about the size of a basketbakk and it still holds like 150psi. Just fill up. set it for 15-20lbs and fill your system and listen for leaks.

 

[oldman]

No it's not a EVoIII GT. Seriously though how long should it take to pressure test the intake system to reach 10 psi with one of those air like this one

If the system is leak free, it should take no more than 5 sec to pressurize it to 20psi. The fact that you're only able to build 5psi, took a while no less, indicates that you have some serious leaks. A desired pressure test result would mean system holding at least 20 psi for at least 30 sec before it bleed itself off. I suggest putting your focus on the leak test, it's most likely your problem. More importantly, no more WOT until all leaks are fixed so you don't want to over work the turbo boosting with leaks. Good luck.

 

[truwarrior]

strange, I got 17 psi at 3200 rpms in 4th gear today. Around 3400 in 3rd. I'm gonna pressure test it in a few minutes.

 

[98spydert]

strange, I got 17 psi at 3200 rpms in 4th gear today. Around 3400 in 3rd. I'm gonna pressure test it in a few minutes.

Can you post your dsmlink log for me to check out?

 

[yugotdonkey]

I have the same symptoms, Evo3 16g, most of the supporting mods minus the FMIC. full spool comes between 3500-4k, I have a few heavy boost leaks right now. My tb shaft seals are still leaking from when i tried to replace them, and my piece-o-shit apexi bov is leaking tons of boost. My system won't build over 5 psi on a leak test, Ever. rotate the butterfly on your tb and see if you can feel air coming out during the test. Also check where your injectors seat with the fuel rail, I found a small leak there too. Hope that helps some.

 

[truwarrior]

UPDATE:

boost leaked up to 15psi, air was coming out of the hose on the left of the valve cover, if I pulled the hole the pressure built up and if I released me finger a shot of pressured air came out.

Also heard oil dripping or bubbling once the pressure started getting past 5-7 psi it got louder. Also upped the oiled cap and heard hissing air. Didn't drop too fast from 15psi though, maybe like 1 psi every 5 secs.

Compression test results: 150, 160, 150, 150.

What do you think? The air coming out of the hose and oil cap kinda concerns me...

More timing less boost??

 

[oldman]

Also heard oil dripping or bubbling once the pressure started getting past 5-7 psi it got louder. Also upped the oiled cap and heard hissing air. Didn't drop too fast from 15psi though, maybe like 1 psi every 5 secs.
The air coming out of the hose and oil cap kinda concerns me...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174682&highlight

 

[truwarrior]

Attached boost leaker tester to thottle elbow and blocked off the hose attached to the pcv valve to the intake manny.

BTW PCV valve was loose a little. Might have been my idel problem every now and then .

No more bubbles, went up to 18 psi but won't hold boost and it drops off faster. Probably because the intercooler isn't holding all the air... Still hear air coming out of the oil cap but not as loud as before.

Very small leaks at the bliss screw and the boost gauge hose

Other then that I don't know where the hell the air is goin except the oil cap?!

 

[oldman]

BTW PCV valve was loose a little. Might have been my idel problem every now and then .

Blow into the PCV from the IM side, make sure it doesn't leak. If it leaks, replace it with an OEM one.

No more bubbles

The bubbling was the sound of air leaking through the turbo seal > oil return > oil pan, since you have moved the test to TB elbow, it stoped. This is sometimes normal during a static pressure test since there are no oil pressure on the other side of the seal, this should not be a problem unless you're blowing smoke under boost.

went up to 18 psi but won't hold boost and it drops off faster. Probably because the intercooler isn't holding all the air

How can the IC be leaking during a TB elbow test?

Very small leaks at the bliss screw and the boost gauge hose

Make sure you fix every leak you find.

Still hear air coming out of the oil cap but not as loud as before.

Air out of the oil cap, breather valve and dipstick tube means air is leaking into the crank case via turbo seal, pcv, valve seals or piston rings. Since you have eliminated the turbo seal and pcv, you're left with either valve seals or rings though 18psi is not bad and is something you can probably live with. Repeat the compression test, both dry and wet, make sure the rings are OK.

After you fix those leaks, repeat pressure at the turbo inlet to make sure licp, ic and uicp are leak free as well.

 

[truwarrior]

The intercooler wasn't leaking, I was refering to the intercooler acting as a tank.

Since there is less air in the system when attached to the thottle elbow, the psi dropped off faster as oppose to testing for leaks by attaching the boost leak tester to the compressor housing on the turbo.

The leaks at the boost gauge and bliss screw weren't much. I plugged them with my fingers. I couldn't even hear any air leaking at this point. I had to put my head near the oil cap inlet to hear the air leaking out there.

This apprently is my only decent leak.

Testing from the intake elbow, starting from 18 psi boost drops about 1.5 psi per second and slows down around 5 psi to about 1 psi every 3 seconds or so.

Plugged the bov line which has my greddy profec b and bov attached to it, also plugged the PCV hose going into the intake.

Here's my compression result from 2002 using the same gauge. I forgot have the thottle plate open this time though were as before in 2002 I had the throttle plate WOT

2002 compression:

162, 162,155,162.

2005 compression

150, 160, 150, 150

 

[truwarrior]

Ok, car was running like ass again tonight for a few pulls. I punched the gas in 3rd at around 3500rpms and it felt like a nonturbo. Boost gauge read 17psi. I checked the wideband and towards the end of the pull it was off the charts rich, but low 10s before that.

On my way home it was running like a champ pulling like it should. WTF. I don't think it's knocking bad because my knock light should have came on. I programmed it in DSM link.

What would case such an inconsitant power band!?

I remember I had 3 dudes in the car a little while back, punched it in 1st and barely heard the wheels slip at all at 16psi creeping to 20. Felt like the same lack of power, but the next day I raped a truck incase of road rage

I'm gonna check my PCV valve tomorrow. Think sometimes it's randomly not closing and letting manifold pressure into the valve cover?

My cars running a little warmer from the FMIC but I think it only pulls 1degree of timing at the most if any. I doubt 1 degree would make such a night and day difference.

 

[truwarrior]

Well my pcv leaks a little...nothing like when u blow on the other side. but if I plug it with my finger and let it go some air does come out. Also hisses slightly when blowing really hard on the intake manny side. Again nothing like the amount that comes out blowing on the valve cover side

 

[truwarrior]

Well my pcv leaks a little...nothing like when u blow on the other side. but if I plug it with my finger and let it go some air does come out. Also hisses slightly when blowing really hard on the intake manny side. Again nothing like the amount that comes out blowing on the valve cover side

What's next? Leak down test? Where do u get the equipment for that?

 

[oldman]

What's next?

1. Replace the leaky PCV with a new OEM one.

2. Repeat compression test, both dry and wet. If wet compression test doesn't show anything, it's pretty clear that the valve seals are in question. However like I have mentioned before, 18 psi is not bad at all and should not be the source of your spooling problem. The important thing is that you make sure the crankcase is well ventilated from this point on and that the exhaust isn't smoking. Move the tester back to the turbo inlet and make sure there are no leaks at IC pipes and IC. Once that is done, Let's do some test runs.

3. Check for any exhaust leaks before O2 housing.

4. Remove the actuator arm and make sure the flapper is fully closed with the arm re-attached.

5. Test run with the EBC bypassed by connecting the pressure source directly to the actuator. If problem fixed, something is up withe the EBC/vacuum hose setup. If problem persists, go to 6.

6. Test run with the actuator nipple open, this will result in all out boost so feather the throttle appropriately. If problem resolve, the actuator is opening prematurely.

If you have done all the tests and inspections appropriately up to this point and spooling problem still persists, you're down to the turbo itself. Check it for shaft play and free spin. I would also look into the hollow divider setup, maybe it was not properly knife edged which can creat turbulence. IMO this is not a good approach in combating boost creep. Maybe some else without the divider can input on their spool up time. Good luck.

 

[truwarrior]

I'm not to happy about the ported out divider....but not much I can do..

No in and out play on the turbo, normal up and down play.

No obvious smoke.

I don't hear any exhaust leaks. Will try a wet test. It's just a capful right? Wouldn't that increase compression because the oil is taking up volume? I understand it would lube the rings for a better seal but idk...

Spool seemed ok today. 2nd gear seems to be the worse still for spool. 3rd seems normal today. Maybe it's the lightweight flywheel.

I'm gonna get a new PCV orelse cap it off this week. Also gonna lean it out some so I get a little closer to 11:1. I'm running 10.5:1 not with no knock. with 17psi. DSMLink guesses 205hp at 6500rpms if the car weighed 3000 pounds.

 

[Talesin]

Uh... 'normal' up and down play, isn't.

And is it just me, or does 205hp with 17-20psi boost sound just a little... off?

 

[truwarrior]

I doesn't go in and out just slighlt up and down. Just barely...when the oiul pressure builds it probably seals.

Ya I'm wondering when I'm at 11:1 if I'll have 300hp

 

[truwarrior]

How about this for a diagnostics, when I start the car then put my hand over the valve cover, I feel a noticable suction, sucking my hand into the valve cover...it's not that hard though to were it totally sucks it in, just enough like it's trying to give my palm a hickie


http://home.comcast.net/~gvozdjakj/PDC_0091.JPG

 

[m0f]

You didn't mention your exhaust. You're not still running on the stock exhaust are you ? This can have a huge impact on spool characteristics