35r or 60-1 for pump gas?

[definitiveno]

Which one can I possibly get better pump gas figures from. I am working with 92 on the island (HI) and I suppose I have enough intercooler to run maybe 23-25 lbs. I would really like to have as broad power band as possible and close to if not over 450whp on pump. I currently have a standard t3 3082r (4 bolt gt) but ever since I started reading about twin scroll and divided manifolds I have had a real itch to switch to either a divided .78 housing from atp or even maybe, send the entire unit back and swap to a ball bearing 60-1 with divided t4 .70A/R.

What you guys think has the most potential to suite my goals?

 

[GVR4592]

I don't think there are any advantages to switching turbo's. If you have a 3082 it should meet your goals just fine.

 

[CanadianTSi]

If you have a 3082 it should meet your goals just fine.

Agree'd. Although if your choosing between the 35r or the 60-1 I would go with the newer(more efficient) wheels in the 35r.

 

[definitiveno]

Agree'd. Although if your choosing between the 35r or the 60-1 I would go with the newer(more efficient) wheels in the 35r.

I know they are more efficient but efficient where is the question ive been asking myself, efficient at 25 psi or efficient at 35 psi?

 

[GVR4592]

I know they are more efficient but efficient where is the question ive been asking myself, efficient at 25 psi or efficient at 35 psi?

Compare the compressor maps and you'll be able to see for yourself.

 

[definitiveno]

Compare the compressor maps and you'll be able to see for yourself.

Okay, I'll take a look. But is a compressor map a tell-all about power potential? The 35r "looks" very efficient at 18 psi on a compressor map, but users have complained it is lackluster until 25+

 

[GSTeclipse]

take the turbo between the 2 a GT30R is very very good on pump gas and inbetween the 2 turbos

 

[93AWDTalon1]

Compare the compressor maps and you'll be able to see for yourself.

The compressor maps don't always tell the whole story as the 35r is rated at 62 lbs/min on its compresor map yet has made 770bhp or 650whp how ever you want to look at it.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

62 lbs/min * 11whp/(lb/min) = 682 whp capable

 

[daren_p]

take the turbo between the 2 a GT30R is very very good on pump gas and inbetween the 2 turbos

The OP already has a 3082 which is a GT30R varient. Its the standard GT30 turbine wheel mated to the GT40 compressor wheel.

But like was said you shouldn't have a problem meeting your goal with your current turbo. If you want to run a good amount of boost on pump, meth injection is always your friend

 

[daren_p]

62 lbs/min * 11whp/(lb/min) = 682 whp capable

I've always heard 1 lb/min is approx 10 crank hp, not 10 whp.

 

[BrokenTsi]

I went 10.9's on 3082r my first time out, and also trapped 133mph. My car is full weight. This turbo makes retarded pump gas power. But I want to try a 35r now, but honestly, I dont think I'll do THAT much better. On my 10.9 run, dsm link said I was seeing 45lbs/min but estimated me at 590whp. My clutch also slipped in 3rd and 4th gear along with the tires spinning in 2nd and 3rd.

 

[pitbull419]

If your switching turbos might as well get one with levels your current turbo cant acheive.
If not theres really no point.WIth that being said.
Go with a gt40r,1000cc injectors,methanol injection and crank up the boost and hold on(sounds like the setup im going with No really your current turbo will acheive your goal just fine.Use your money for other things to help you get there.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

I've always heard 1 lb/min is approx 10 crank hp, not 10 whp.

If that's the case, how am I making 420whp on an evo316g?

 

[BrokenTsi]

Oh, and I've also had a 60-1, and I hated it. Lots of race gas power, not so impressive on pump.

 

[Strm Trpr]

If that's the case, how am I making 420whp on an evo316g?

Let's see that dyno sheet?

 

[daren_p]

If that's the case, how am I making 420whp on an evo316g?

I don't know, where's the proof thats how much power your making & what are your specifics as far as airflow, etc? How is someone supposed to come to a conclusion with a question like that & no info? This is just what I have always see aprrox 9-11 crank hp per lb/min but if you can prove thats supposed to be whp, then great. I do see you have a MAFT listed in your profile, so before we do any comparisions, it is calibrated properly?

 

[GVR4592]

The compressor maps don't always tell the whole story as the 35r is rated at 62 lbs/min on its compresor map yet has made 770bhp or 650whp how ever you want to look at it.

It answers his question though, so what's your point?

 

[definitiveno]

I went 10.9's on 3082r my first time out, and also trapped 133mph. My car is full weight. This turbo makes retarded pump gas power. But I want to try a 35r now, but honestly, I dont think I'll do THAT much better. On my 10.9 run, dsm link said I was seeing 45lbs/min but estimated me at 590whp. My clutch also slipped in 3rd and 4th gear along with the tires spinning in 2nd and 3rd.

Hey broken, nice work there. Can you tell me a bit about daily driving with your 3082r, with pump gas, spool and how the power comes on? Ive had some concearns after speaking with some shop pro's about the 3082r, they say it actually feels lazy compared to a straight 35r because of the missmatched wheals. Just curious what your findings are with this combination, and why the change? Lastly what A/R are you using, mine is .82.

 

[Slippi84]

One a gt35r is a 65lb/min turbo not 62lbs/min two I was always to understand 10lb/min air flow = 10whp so a 65lb/min tubro should peak ball park 650hp give or take as nothing is clean cut ever. If your trying to make good power on pump stay away from the 60-1 I know plenty of old red(fp's 60-1) guys who never reached full potential till 25+ psi like you said and race gas. The gt35 will be th ebest turbo for you. It will give you room to grow be effecient and spool quicker thanks to the duall bb center.

 

[JOEY A]

If that's the case, how am I making 420whp on an evo316g?

Please explain to me what your setup was? PM me thank you

 

[Steve93Talon]

One a gt35r is a 65lb/min turbo not 62lbs/min

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/00000001/graphs_full/714568-1comp.jpg

Look into the Borg Warner S258 or S362. They're available with divided turbine housings and flow over 60 lb/min. They're also more efficient at higher pressure ratios than a 35r, and should spool a bit quicker as well.

 

[GVR4592]

One a gt35r is a 65lb/min turbo not 62lbs/min two I was always to understand 10lb/min air flow = 10whp so a 65lb/min tubro should peak ball park 650hp give or take as nothing is clean cut ever. If your trying to make good power on pump stay away from the 60-1 I know plenty of old red(fp's 60-1) guys who never reached full potential till 25+ psi like you said and race gas. The gt35 will be th ebest turbo for you. It will give you room to grow be effecient and spool quicker thanks to the duall bb center.

The GT35R is a 62 lb/min turbo.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT35/GT3582R_714568_2.htm

 

[dsm-onster]

One a gt35r is a 65lb/min turbo not 62lbs/min two I was always to understand 10lb/min air flow = 10whp so a 65lb/min tubro should peak ball park 650hp give or take as nothing is clean cut ever.

You know, I've heard both and no clear cut answer to why the discrepancy.

If your trying to make good power on pump stay away from the 60-1 I know plenty of old red(fp's 60-1) guys who never reached full potential till 25+ psi like you said and race gas.

What's the difference between 25 psi w/ a gt35r compressor and a 60-1? Intercooler efficientcy is king here. It will cancel out the small differences between these wheels all the way to choke.

No one can run 25+ psi w/ ANY turbo and just pump gas w/ our long block (+ good cams). No one can reach the potential of either wheel w/out running some muffed timing curve and drowning the engine in fuel IF they run JUST pump gas.

I've turned my 60-1 setup into a daily driver at 30 psi (pump gas = DD to me). I run water/alky injection. I've seen the same on a local GT35R. He runs the same nozzle flow and pump and same mix. I just met him a week ago.

The gt35 will be th ebest turbo for you. It will give you room to grow be effecient and spool quicker thanks to the duall bb center.

Keep in mind that ballistic center sections yield only a 15% quicker spool.
_______________

Pick your poison. Both flow just a hair over 60 lbs/min. Id' be more concerned about your hotside. Your hotside is what yiels more hp PER psi than any other factor alone. Of course, assuming you have a compressor wheel capable of supplying the demand.

360 degree race thrust bearings rarely fail and are rebuildable . But that's another debate.

This debate on which turbo will yield the highest pump gas figures is just odd to me. The intercooler plays such a key role and simple math can show you how aftercooling ultimately dictates how cool the air is passing into the combustion chamber. Also real results: I noticed zero difference going from 22 psi on my small 16g to 22 psi on my 18g. The small 16g was logging beyond choke.

Okay, I'll take a look. But is a compressor map a tell-all about power potential? The 35r "looks" very efficient at 18 psi on a compressor map, but users have complained it is lackluster until 25+

Again, (if I'm reading you correctly) 'lackluster' has so much to do w/ turbine than compressor. My t3 stage 3 turbine in the BEP housing feels FUN at 25 psi. Feels devilish at 30. I know that I'm slightly choking up top. But the FUN is worth it. A GT35R (56-trim) compressor wheel is nearly the same diameter; nearly the same flow. Again, turbine a/r and wheel dimensions have MUCH more to do w/ fun and where it hits than anything.

But neverthless, I'm a big fan of the 60-1 becasue I have one and it is quite satisfying .

I agree w/ the suggestion to look into Borg-Warner if your current turbo is not enough for you. They can do this:

http://www.tmrmp3.com/bullseyepower/rau.wmv

Also Kiggly runs one.

 

[firebirdvert305]

dsm-onster what rpm are you seeing full boost at? Whats your cam setup, and fuel setup? Reason being im looking into a 60-1 t3 setup and want to get a generalized idea on its characteristics.