420A 2gNT Timing belt or worse?

[redondoaveb]

Hi Guys,

I have a 99 GS (420A). I took off from my house today and heard a squealing noise. I thought maybe it was the accessory belt. Wasn't making any other noise so I wasn't too concerned.

Well, all of a sudden it just died. I was close to home and was able to coast back. After I parked it I tried to start it again. It cranked over but wouldn't start.

Do you all think it is the timing belt or something worse?

Thanks in advance for all your input.

 

[white92talontsi]

Yeah, after they install the water pump, tensioner, pulleys and belt. Shouldn't they do a compression check at that time to see if there are any valve issues before they close everything up.

That way if there is a valve issue they won't have to break everything down again.

They can install the water pump, T-belt and just the crank sprocket and check the car that way, they do not have to have everything buttoned up.

 

[redondoaveb]

Cool, thanks for the info. I'll make sure that happens.

 

[grothe3297venge]

Honestly I would do the compression check yourself if you can. Because they A - charge you for that when you can EASILY do it yourself. B - who's to know if they give you inaccurate readings?! C - you can take the head off in no time and have them install new valves if that's the case.

Sorry if this comes off wrong, I would personally want to see the compression numbers because what if your that lucky and nothing happened yet they charge you to get it done because its "likely" it happened.

 

[Gaines12]

I agree, and that's the said thing is you can never trust people to be honest anymore. And thats why I do all my work myself. You can buy a set of compression gauges for cheaper than they will test it for I'm willing to bet.

 

[grothe3297venge]

Exactly, be nothing to them since they'll make all the money. Don't get me wrong there is shops you can trust and some you'll never know.. But just think it will be double the labor and another install, gonna have a new engine in no time basically, unless you check compression yourself and do some of the work yourself. Little piece of mind if you ask me.

Also you can rent a compression tester from any auto parts store!!

 

[Gaines12]

That is true, and I'm sure there's plenty of forums on how to replace a trimming belt and pull the head in your car. If your the slightest bit mechanically inclined and you don't mind working in tight spaces you could do both jobs. But make sure you keep everything labeled and organized. I bet you could save up to $300-$400

 

[redondoaveb]

I definitely agree with you guys. If I had the time I would probably would have attempted the timing belt myself and the head removal and installation if needed. I have always worked my own cars in the past, just not the DSM.

These guys have been working on my car for years, and have always been very good to me. If need be, I can be there when they do the compression test.

Just out of curiosity, what is the chance that it could have put a valve through the piston?

 

[Gaines12]

My a apologies for miss informing you earlier, I don't think the valves will pit a hole through the piston. They will just bend

 

[Th3DooM]

These guys have been working on my car for years, and have always been very good to me.

And they never mentioned to do a timing belt job? Usually you should have got your third timing belt in there.

Fingers crossed there isn't a major damage.

 

[redondoaveb]

My a apologies for miss informing you earlier, I don't think the valves will pit a hole through the piston. They will just bend

You didn't misinform me, I was just wondering if that ever happens with a timing belt problem. Just trying to look at all possible scenarios.

UPDATE: Compression check is complete. Low compression in two cylinders. Head is coming off as I'm writing this. I'll have another update a little later.

 

[Viper588]

Man, that sucks to hear about your car. I'm just hoping that since it happened at low speed, low rpm and it shut down immediately I didn't do any valve damage.

Did you buy a new head or just have the bent valves replaced? Also, what was the cost?

I did all the work both times myself so that helped keep the cost down but the first time i have them install new valves in my head along with some other basic stuff came to around 470 I think. The second time I a found someone selling a refurb head with new pump, tensioner, belts, head gasket set, valve coer set, and new head bolts for 255 =) so i went with the refurb

 

[redondoaveb]

And they never mentioned to do a timing belt job? Usually you should have got your third timing belt in there.

Fingers crossed there isn't a major damage.

They actually did mention changing out the timing belt a while back. Stupid me, I didn't listen. I kept thinking with the low miles, I should be okay.

I did all the work both times myself so that helped keep the cost down but the first time i have them install new valves in my head along with some other basic stuff came to around 470 I think. The second time I a found someone selling a refurb head with new pump, tensioner, belts, head gasket set, valve coer set, and new head bolts for 255 =) so i went with the refurb

I'm waiting for them to pull the head so they can see how much damage there is. They're going to call me back with an updated cost. OUCH!

 

[Gaines12]

If you think the refurbished head is commingle from a reliable source I would get it. I might even be interested in buying your old one. No offense but I assumed it would at least bend valves. Props to whoever your mechanic is, they get your work done quick! They sound like good people to work with.

 

[kleenf4i]

Before you go and spend money on a new head without knowing whats wrong. Please follow this guide. I posted it on another members thread.Also, fixing the head gasket should only take 6 hours max. On hondas, which im most familiar with, i do them in just a couple hours, start to finish.

I can tell you how to do a leak-down test to see if valves are bent.

heres how, but you will have to rent a leakdown tester from a parts store or buy one.

The first step is to ensure the engine is warm. Because we will be pumping air into the engine,(in your case if it wont start, simply contine reading on) leave all the spark plugs in except for the cylinder you're testing. As an example, let's start with , cylinder Number One. Yank the plug and turn the engine over until the piston is at top dead center (TDC). Look at timing balancer marks every 90 degrees, this will help. Now install the air-fitting adapter into the spark plug hole. You'll also need a breaker bar or ratchet and socket for the crankshaft nut. Remember to double-check that your gauge reads zero before you start .

The idea is to put air to the cylinder and then gently rock the piston around TDC to ensure the rings are seated. Keep in mind that cylinder pressure is used to help seal the rings to the cylinder bore, so you want to give them every opportunity to do so. Now record your leakdown percentage. It's really just that simple. Test the remaining cylinders in the same way and you're done.

 

[redondoaveb]

Didn't hear back from them this afternoon. Not sure is they just got too busy to get back to removing the head.

Besides putting a valve through a piston (worse case scenario), which I hope didn't happen, what else could have happened besides the bent valves?

A couple of the rebuilt heads I have seen were actually on ebay. Not sure how reputable the shops are though.

I wonder if Road Race Engineering would have a 420a head laying around. Maybe I'll try calling them just in case I end up wanting to go that route.

 

[kleenf4i]

its highly unlikely a forged piston will take a hole from a valve. Highly unllikely. If the valves are bent the only thing to worry about next are the machined holes for the valves and wheather the head got damaged enought to not make a proper valve seat or valve stem seal. Relativly its an easy , cheaperfix than a new head.

 

[redondoaveb]

its highly unlikely a forged piston will take a hole from a valve. Highly unllikely. If the valves are bent the only thing to worry about next are the machined holes for the valves and wheather the head got damaged enought to not make a proper valve seat or valve stem seal. Relativly its an easy , cheaperfix than a new head.

Now that's some good news, I'll sleep a little better tonight. Thanks for the reassurance.

 

[kleenf4i]

No promises, just speculation at this point. Im hoping that its just a case of bent valves!

 

[redondoaveb]

No promises, just speculation at this point. Im hoping that its just a case of bent valves!

Yeah, that makes two of us.

 

[grothe3297venge]

Call me crazy but I don't think stock (420a) pistons are forged..

 

[Gaines12]

The pistons aren't forged, but I still don't think the valves would put a hole in the piston. It would take a lot of force. You said the shop already checked compression right? Do you know what numbers they came up with?

 

[kleenf4i]

Call me crazy but I don't think stock (420a) pistons are forged..

I stand corrected, I just realized this was the non turbo motor were talking about. either way, its still about 70% chance you did not put a hole in the piston unless you were at like 6k rmp at the time the head was out of time.

 

[redondoaveb]

I didn't ask what the compression numbers were. They told me I could come down and watch the test but I trust them. Still waiting for a call back on the results of when they get the head removed.

 

[kleenf4i]

didd they tell you the compression check failed.?

 

[redondoaveb]

didd they tell you the compression check failed.?

Yeah, they did. 8 bent valves. Head is in the machine shop. Oh yeah, pistons are good.

ANOTHER UPDATE: Total cost for timing belt, water pump, pulleys, tensioner, replace 8 bent valves and related machine shop work and new gaskets is $1,350.00. Do you guys thinks this price is reasonable?