420A 2gNT Timing belt or worse?

[redondoaveb]

Hi Guys,

I have a 99 GS (420A). I took off from my house today and heard a squealing noise. I thought maybe it was the accessory belt. Wasn't making any other noise so I wasn't too concerned.

Well, all of a sudden it just died. I was close to home and was able to coast back. After I parked it I tried to start it again. It cranked over but wouldn't start.

Do you all think it is the timing belt or something worse?

Thanks in advance for all your input.

 

[Gaines12]

Well assuming its the timing belt, compression check all the cylinders to see if any valves were bent or a hole was put through a piston. This could be a serious issue.also maybe check how tight your trimming belt is, when was the last time it was changed? Did the motor make any other loud noises besides the squel?

 

[redondoaveb]

No other noises. Just the squealing and then it shut down. I bought the car new in '99 but I've only put 31,000 miles on it. Timing belt has never been replaced.

Should I assume that if I put a valve through a piston or did other internal damage I would have heard some other nasty noises?

I was going to call some shops tomorrow, not going to attempt to do any of the work myself.

Just trying to get an idea what I might be in for.

PS, was running fine earlier in the day.

 

[thomcasey]

Timing belts for mitsu's are 8 yrs or 60k miles I believe, so it should be changed. Since they have teeth, they normally dont squeel. Pop the timi g cover off and see if the belt is there.

 

[Gaines12]

I'm not sure if you would be able to hear any internal damage or not I've never had it happen to a car I was driving, it may not even be a timing belt, but if it is it could have caused a lot of internal damage or it can be as simple as jumping one tooth and the head being out of time with the bottom end. In that case the valves would open and close to soon causing no compression whichwould result in not starting. And that would be a in expensive fix just a new trimming belt and retime it. But if it was the trimming belt and it slipped bad enough to cause internal damage, that will be an expensive job if your paying someone to fix it.

 

[BLINKY619]

i once had a alternator seize up on me, and car died shortly after,,

 

[bcjjones]

Just remove the upper timing belt cover and look at the timing belt. I'm assuming the timing belt didnt break because if its still able to crank over that easily then the pistons obviously aren't slamming into the valves.

Also, if you keep cranking it over and the timing belt was broken and or skipped a couple teeth, its gunna backfire either through the exhaust or the intake.

 

[redondoaveb]

Yeah, what really threw me off is that it was running fine and then the squeal and it just quit. No other noises.

If the accessory belt is bad (it's still intact, not sure of the condition), could it have shut down the car?

 

[Gaines12]

The accessory belt would have no affect on the engine itself running. It only deals with the power steering, a/c, and alternator

 

[Jesse2012]

Dumb question but have you checked to make sure the belt (alternator belt I'm assuming) didn't actually snap?

 

[bcjjones]

Hard to tell what the squeal was without hearing it, timing belts don't normally squeal. I would guess it was unrelated and just a coincedence.

 

[redondoaveb]

Well, took the timing belt cover off. Belt is pretty shredded. I can see slack in it too.

Assuming that the engine internals aren't damaged, what does it usually run to replace the belt, pulleys and tensioner?

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, I really appreciate the help.

Another question. With the timing belt shredded I don't think I should be turning the motor over to do a compression check. Would I have to replace the belt and then do a compression check to make sure I didn't do any valve damage?

Is there any way to find out if I did any internal damage while in the process of changing out the belt? Also, what do you think is the possibility that I did do internal damage?

Sorry to keep this going but I did notice something else. I saw some coolant on the ground right under the timing cover. Is it possible that the water pump froze up (the squealing noise) and that's what shredded the timing belt?

FWIW, I have been losing coolant, but never noticed any on the ground where I park. I haven't had any over heating issues but I recently had to purge air out of the cooling system.

Thanks again for any input.

 

[Gaines12]

The water pump locking up is a high possibility, and a timing belt kit is around $160 I think. As fast as the internal damage, you either have to put a new belt on and retime it all or else take the head off and take a look. Try northern auto parts they have pretty good prices I know

I know this isn't what you wanna hear, but internal damage to the valves is highly likely, it just depends on how much the belt slipped. The 420a is what's called an interference motor which means generally when the timing belt breaks or slips a lot, 9/10 times the pistons will hit the valves

 

[redondoaveb]

Well, car is on it's way to the shop. I've got my fingers crossed. I'm hoping that since this happened at low speed / low rpm and it shut off right away, I didn't do any valve damage.

 

[Gaines12]

Let us know how it goes if you don't mind

 

[redondoaveb]

Got a call from the shop. Water pump was seized. They are going to install a new pump, tensioner, pulleys and belt. Parts and labor is probably going to be around $600.00.

After everything is installed they'll check the valves. I hope like hell that the top end is good.

I'll definitely keep everyone up to date on results. Might be done tomorrow if everything goes as planned.

Positive rep to you for all your help and concern.

 

[Viper588]

Got a call from the shop. Water pump was seized. They are going to install a new pump, tensioner, pulleys and belt. Parts and labor is probably going to be around $600.00.

After everything is installed they'll check the valves. I hope like hell that the top end is good.

I'll definitely keep everyone up to date on results. Might be done tomorrow if everything goes as planned.

Positive rep to you for all your help and concern.

I had a 95 and its pump seized at 122k and snapped the belt and again at 186k. I can almost guarantee that valves will be bent, i would question if they are gonna charge you again for all the timing belt install and labor if when they replace everything and they have to tear it back down for the valves. I hope you got lucky and only need to replace the belt and pump but i dont think you did =(

 

[redondoaveb]

I had a 95 and its pump seized at 122k and snapped the belt and again at 186k. I can almost guarantee that valves will be bent, i would question if they are gonna charge you again for all the timing belt install and labor if when they replace everything and they have to tear it back down for the valves. I hope you got lucky and only need to replace the belt and pump but i dont think you did =(

Man, that sucks to hear about your car. I'm just hoping that since it happened at low speed, low rpm and it shut down immediately I didn't do any valve damage.

Did you buy a new head or just have the bent valves replaced? Also, what was the cost?

 

[Gaines12]

I hate to rain on your parade but I'm about 99% sure your valves will be bent because even at low speeds the momentum of the motor would be enough to keep turning it a few revolutions after the belt broke or slipped. And you will probably have to replace multiple valves and if that's the case youtr better of to have all of them replaced. Basically have the whole head rebuilt. Because believe it or not the head is what makes the power in an engine. Any leaks around valves is just allowing potential power to go straight out the tail pipe.

As was stated before, I would check with the shop and see how they will charge to do the trimming belt if it has to be removed. You may be better off going ahead and telling them to take the head off first and check the valves that way you don't get charged for the same thing twice. I don't know how serious you are about keeping the car or how much your wanting to spend. But its possible the shop knows they can get away with charging you to do the same job twice. You never know anymore....

 

[redondoaveb]

I hate to rain on your parade but I'm about 99% sure your valves will be bent because even at low speeds the momentum of the motor would be enough to keep turning it a few revolutions after the belt broke or slipped. And you will probably have to replace multiple valves and if that's the case youtr better of to have all of them replaced. Basically have the whole head rebuilt. Because believe it or not the head is what makes the power in an engine. Any leaks around valves is just allowing potential power to go straight out the tail pipe.

Okay, now I'm taking back the rep recommendation (just kidding). Well, I still have hope. That's all I have to go on.

I can get a rebuilt head for a little over $300.00. Would that be a better choice than getting my existing head rebuilt.

I'm trying to get an idea what the top end work would cost me (on top of what I'm paying for the timing belt and accessories). Any idea?

 

[Gaines12]

You know I rally can't say, because I do all that kind of work myself. But it may be cheaper to go with a new head, you never really know. If I was in the area I'd be happy to take a look at it for free. Rebuilding heads inst a bad job but it does take time. Probably more in labor time and parts than to buy a rebuilt on already. And if the shop gets parts from auto zone they will be way more expensive than if their acquired from somewhere like nothernauto as I think I stated before.

 

[redondoaveb]

You know I rally can't say, because I do all that kind of work myself. But it may be cheaper to go with a new head, you never really know. If I was in the area I'd be happy to take a look at it for free. Rebuilding heads inst a bad job but it does take time. Probably more in labor time and parts than to buy a rebuilt on already. And if the shop gets parts from auto zone they will be way more expensive than if their acquired from somewhere like nothernauto as I think I stated before.

I'll see what they find out (hopefully tomorrow) and if they find bent valves I'll see what they want to rebuild the head and kind of go from there.

Also, I'm thinking that before the shop buttons everything up (installs timing cover), they should do a compression check. Is that correct?

 

[Gaines12]

Are you talking about when they first put the trimming belt on before they look into any possible head issues?

 

[redondoaveb]

Are you talking about when they first put the trimming belt on before they look into any possible head issues?

Yeah, after they install the water pump, tensioner, pulleys and belt. Shouldn't they do a compression check at that time to see if there are any valve issues before they close everything up.

That way if there is a valve issue they won't have to break everything down again.

 

[Gaines12]

Yes, that would be the ideal time for them to check if you decide to have them check after they replace timing components. And with a compression check they should instantly know whether or not they need to take the head off. It will be an obvious compression drop