2G AWD street, 400awhp - The resurrection build

[Mangold]

EDIT: Ok, I finally picked up a running 98 GSX. Very clean body but the interior needs work. Pics coming soon.

Mods on the car:

*2.0 7 bolt stock rebuild w/ 10k miles (late 98 split thrust bearing)
*Ecmlink V3 with Speed Density
*AEM Wideband, AEM oil pressure, AEM boost gauge 35 psi
*Tein Basic Adjustable coilovers
*FIC 850cc injectors, Aeromotive Fuel Pressure regulator kit, Fuel lab SS filter kit, Aeromotive 340 fuel pump
*ACT 2600 clutch,Fidanza Flywheel
*APexi full turbo back exhaust
*FP 68HTA, FP turbo manifold, o2 dump housing
*Prothane Motor mounts
*Evo 8 Enkei Wheels
*Greddy FMIC
*Fluidyne radiator

Up next:
*Baseline 18psi dyno tune
*ECU wire management and cleanup
*New racing seats and interior carpet
*New timing belt, water pump, valve cover gasket & freshly powder coated valve cover
*Kelford 272 camshafts
*Skunk 2 adjustable cam gears
*Jack's Stage 2 transmission
*Evo brakes
*Strut & sway bars

 

[Talyn]

That setup should meet your goals, idk if it will spool quite as fast as you want though, but probably come as close as anything can. And I don't think you need a metal HG for that level of power, but as long as your head and block are decked correctly it won't hurt anything. Also you will of course need some other things for that level of power, but you probably already know what they are. I will add that you might also consider a td05 20g for your goals, as it is more or less bolt on(you will need to get a J-pipe and fuss with the oil and water lines) but you need an FMIC for those lvls anyway, which should come with J-pipe.

 

[Mangold]

Sorry for the long post, just trying to put all of my build research in one place.

Using the math provided by this article:
Compressor Flow Maps and Calculations

CFM = L x RPM x VE x Pr
5660

And using the following thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/242582-stock-volumetric-efficiency.html

CFM = 2.0L x 8500 X 100 X 3
5660

So for a 2.0L at 8500 RPM The turbo needs to provide a peak of 900 CFM or 63 lb/min to hold power all the way @ 30 psi boost.

Looking here and here:
Mitsubishi OEM turbo specifications (including flow rates) - evolutionm.net
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/339041-holset-hx-super-40-compressor-map.html
Holset hx35 good turbo? - Page 2 - Focus Fanatics

Summary of general turbo flow potential:
Big 16g = 36lb/min
FP Big T28 = 38lb/min
18g = 40lb/min
EVO III Big 16g = 42lb/min
20g (TD06) = 44lb/min
68HTA = 47lb/min
-------------------------------------
HX35 8blade = 52 lb/min
FP Green = 54 lb/min
HX35 7blade = 60 lb/min
HX40 8blade = 60 lb/min
FP Red = 60 lb/min
Super HX40 = 69 lb/min

Fuel calculations using the E85 global calculator on tuners: http://www.dsmtuners.com/sub.php?page=e85calculator

"1000cc @ 100% IDC will support 55.89 lbs/min. Global Correction: -41.50%
1000cc @ 80% IDC will support 44.72 lbs/min

1150cc @ 100% IDC will support 64.28 lbs/min. Global Correction: -49.13%
1150cc @ 80% IDC will support 51.42 lbs/min

1200cc @ 100% IDC will support 67.07 lbs/min. Global Correction: -51.25%
1200cc @ 80% IDC will support 53.66 lbs/min

1600cc @ 100% IDC will support 89.43 lbs/min. Global Correction: -63.44%
1600cc @ 80% IDC will support 71.55 lbs/min"

 

[turboglenn]

You might as well look at something HX35 or larger, if you're one of the few who can pull a REAL 400hp from a 6g then you defintely would know more than most on here..

As long as you know the supporting mods you speak of, then an hx35 with good fueling to suppor the HP (1450-1600's) and a pump to feed them, a manifold to fit the hoslet to your car depending on what turbine section style you go with.. some sort of management, DSMlink is all 95% of opeople need, built bottom end and you're there..wanting spool by 3500 is kinda pointless, even at full boost, the engine profiles for high HP aren't doing anything at that low of an RPM anyway. (i can get my hx40/35 hybrid opening the wastegate at 27psi by 3500, but that's in 4th and 5th)

As a result of reading a lot of things you said, that you're not familiar with how reliable a proper;y built combo can be..like rebuilding every 20k miles. I would expect o be making 750+ if i had to rebuild that often. Mine and most other 500hp range cars can easily go well over that, mine has been ran hard since assembly and is at 40k miles and i didn't use a knoick sensor at all for most of my DSM's life because of stand alone management.

Best thign to do is look at the builds of others at the same HP level you want, there's a million options we could give you but you ultimately need to decide for yourself based on reading other people's results and the way their builds behave and picking the particular things you want from those ad putting your build together to match that.. The only real thing that's changed is a bunch of new hybrid turbo names, and hoslets bringing us turbos that spool fast as hwell, make great HP and much higher torque levels than most other turbos in the past would make at the given HP.

with the stuff you wrote (Or possibly pasted from some stats available) it sounds like you already know what to do and how to figure airflow, but let me say this.. don't build your setup to be at 80% of its available power at 400HP cauyse you wil want more.. I wanted 350 to start, then 400, then 450, now i'm making right at 500 (slightly less to save transmissions right now) and now i want 550 or 600. So leave yourself room to grown, an hx35 can exceed 500, spools insanely fast when setup right (i see some people posting 5000RPM but i can say mine is always fully spooled before 4k RPM and that's 27 - 30psi) and then soem people spool theirs even faster based on the turbine housing and other setup factors

One thing i learned on here and i'll pass onto you, fon't set yourself a budget like that... youwill only get mad, because you'll spend 3 times that budget starting out thinking "i got 10k to spend" just shop smart, save money where you can but not by buying ebaycrap, and biuld a simple sensible combo, I could take a rolling chassis and easily build a reliable 600hp cqr for 10k, but not if i started buying parts alone on the thoughts of a 10k budget... or if you want to meet a 10 budget start your budget out at like 4k dollars, so the unexpected stuff won't piss you off when it brings you to 10k in the end..hard to explain, but in a sense it's like this/.. One machine shop when i was willing to just spend money charged me 3k dollars for a junk engine that didn't last 1500 miles...my current machinist charged me 180 bucks and i bought and provided the parts ahead of machining time for him to spec things out to.. the remaining 2820 dollars that was the difference in the two engine builds, was money i wouldn't have been able to put towards other parts on the second build had i just told a machine shop i've got x dollars to spend" instead of pricing out the individual services i wanted and assembling myself hope it makes some sense, it's hard to explain but you get it once you complete a build and think back on the advice (at least that's when it hit me like a ton of briicks)

P.s. the figures above are good knowledge, but not the kinda stuff i base a build on as they often dissapoint being that they are based on everything being to a certain minimum performance level.. like pulling 400hp from a 16g, very few can actually do it, and some can do it for 3k dollars and some will spend 7k dollars in parts and still not get there.. it's all about shopping smart and not shopping for either super cheap ebay parts that are "shiny" and not thinking throwing money at a car makes it fast, the setup, tuning and little stuff that's done with time put into the car and can't be bnought anywhere is what pulls power from a given setup... In the start i went from making 312hp on a 57 trim "maxed out" and then soem how (through knowledge and tweaking the little things to make everything perform it's best under the least stress, i took that same turbo to 438hp with very little moneny spent and very few parts added. most iof it was fixing restrictions, minimizing IC tubing length, bends and size rteansitions, and all the little stuff that you find when you just stare at the engine bay and see soemthing and say "ibet cleaning up that transition would help a little" then all those little things add up to making power without wassting money

EDIT: just noticed you don't have a shell yet, hell, I'll sell you a car capable of 600hp on the current turbomaking in exccess of 480 daily with room to turn it up and max out the current turbo for 10k dollars, which is what i would have to get if i ever sold my car, and the reason i've never tried to sell it.. been offered 8k but didn't want to sell at th.e time, now i want my grand national and will sell the eeee-cripse.. all mods are in profile, except listing all the little parts, oh and add a new inline 044 and it should be dcurrent

 

[Mangold]

The CFM math is math I actually did based on a lot of reading I have done about similar builds such as: (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/363610-2-3l-stroker-build-suggestions-chime-please.html)

I used 100% efficiency b/c that is what the consensus seemed to be after reading a few threads on that. Boosted cars can be > 100% VE but 100% is a safe rough number to use for modified 4G63.

As far as the horsepower estimates, they are pretty conservative rough estimates using 1.5 CFM:HP. The range varies from 1 CFM:1 HP to 1.5CFM:1HP. I stuck with the conservative estimation b/c I have yet to personally see these really high HP setups in action. I hear people talk a lot about 500 hp DSMs, WRX and EVOs but on the dyno its more in the ballpark of 300hp.

Wheel/Tire FAQs:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/frequently-answered-dsm-questions/286685-will-these-wheels-tires-fit.html

 

[Mangold]

'Before' photos.

 

[Mangold]

The hatch on the car leaks apparently and there was some standing water and rust in the trunk hatch floor. First thing I did when I got it home was to clean it all out, wirebrush and sand off the rust and then coat it in a rust prevention enamel.

 

[Mangold]

Ok, finally got all the issues identified with the car and I am about to start pulling stuff apart tonight in anticipation of new parts coming in for the build.

There were some issues with the car loosing oil from the turbo so rather than rebuilding that I am upgrading to an FP 68HTA.

DD/RR build:
*Swap NGK BRP6ES for BRP7ES spark plugs
*Upgrade stock radiator to Fluidyne radiator
*ECMlink wire management
*Upgrade T28 to FP 68HTA
*Upgrade Walbro 190 to Aeromotive 340 fuel pump
*Sparco driver racing seat
* Upgrade stock cams to Kelford 272
*Install new Gates Kevlar timing belt
*Upgrade stock trans to Jack's stage 2 ultimate synchro
*Dyno tune 18-22psi 93 octane, shooting for 300-320awhp

 

[Mangold]

Got my 68HTA back from FP Monday and I was able put the car back together last night. Along with the 68HTA she got a new Aeromotive 340 fuel pump and Fluidyne radiator and an A/C condenser re-installed.

Next, going to take it for a basic 18lb dyno tune. Then back into the shop for a Jack's transmission.