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Road Race Build 2G Auto Time Attack race build!

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Thought it was about time to make a blog since ive always wanted to do one and this is a pretty major step for me in terms of building the car up,

My choice of this build is really down to liking the time attack looks and John Freunds and Andrew Brilliants cars, granted i wont be competing like they do or on their level and some of you might think why am I doing this as its pointless but ive always wanted to build something wild or wildish and well I love racing cars and they way some of them look, but i will be going to track events and over a longer period totally turn it into a dedicated track car only,

Over the next few months i will be uploading pics of the items I have already and the parts on my list still to buy for the build along with the future of the aero im trying to design and make work as best as I can with my limited knowledge but... I will do my best to make it work even if its a small increase! Its better then nothing in my eyes,

I will keep it as upto date as i go along and catch up on taking pics and my plans and custom items i also plan to build along the way.

Thanks for reading and I hope I can make this an interesting build for you all to follow!

Thanks Bobby
 

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ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
In this build I will be undertaking alot of projects on and stuff ive not seen before and everything on this car will be initially designed and build,welded,fabricated,machined by me through out the whole build so it will take some time for some stuff to come around but uodates will be here as and when I get there!

Basics of what i plan to achieve with the engine,

The long term aim is 550-600 HP but thats after a fully built engine (long way away). Right now im aiming for 400 HP (ish) im not fussed on final figures but with the setup in mind and im putting in its pretty achievable and want to run around 18-20 psi, on a stock lower block with stock HG and just some upgraded lifters, and maybe some different cams and springs but not got to that stage yet.

There are 2 stages to this handling, braking and safety interior and then engine and aero.

My first stage has already been underway for sometime now with braking, I shall be running Evo brembos all around including the Evo MC and booster upfront, on this I have decided to go abit above and beyond really but Its worth it in the long run, i decided to go and get racing brakes Stainless Pistons for all 4 corners plus their blue HIGH TEMP dust seals rated to 450F instead of the normal 300F so a little overkill but they will last along time and the pistons wont over heat or need titanium shims to reduce brake pad feel. (Read that online from stoptech) with these pistons i will also be running carbotech XP10 pads up front and XP8 on the rear (John freund recommended I use Carbotech)
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along with these I got a good deal on a set of 2 piece front rotors from X3E motorsports slotted, and on the rears are some medium quality grade 1 piece slotted discs from comline which from what Ive read are not bad. All with JNZ's full stainless kit upfront and SS brake lines all around and then some Millers 300+ brake fluid is the icing on the cake!

For the suspension I was unsure who to go with and I am not made of money and although I have not set a budget there are some limits to my spend!!! First option was going to be fortune auto's 500 series but after many many emails they wont offer a spherical topmount just rubber so thats out the question! Then i looked at feal (again) then hotbits and after almost 1 year I thought BC coilovers was the way to go. ive been in several cars with them and they are amazing plus I can get them rebuild in the UK so thats a win AND!!!!!!!! They offer full sphericals all round as an upgrade! So that is who ive gone with on those! Custom picked rates of 14kg front
(783LB) and 7kg rear (392LB) so the half split which most folks recommend doing. May change later depending how good the aero is if atall haha

Aswell as the coilovers for suspension I am also in the middle of making tubular fully adjustable upper arms front and rear to make the setup as best as it can be and as SPC dont make theirs anymore and megan has had a go i still feel as if its not as good as it can be (NOTE I AM MAKING AND DEVELOPING EVERYTHING ON MY CAR FROM SCRATCH!!!)

In the next part I will list down everything thats going to be added in terms of parts for the upgrade and i will try add as many pictures as I can for certain items
 

TSiAWD666

Supporting Vendor
2,626
852
Aug 15, 2003
Herndon, Virginia
What does "need titanium shims to reduce brake pad feel" mean? The titanium shims are heat shields for the calipers to reduce heat on the piston seals and brake fluid, and don't really do anything for any sort of brake feel. Well, that's not entirely true, they can every so slightly reduce how deep you have to go in the pedal on hard braking when the pads start to get really thin, but... that's almost negligible as they are either .5 or 1mm thick depending on what you get.

On the Fortune Auto thing, there's no reason you couldn't get a set of spherical hats, either made (the Dennis Grant solidworks file I can provide) or purchased from RTM if they have them in stock, then adjust the bushings to suit the shock diameter on the fortune shocks. It's a pretty easy thing to assemble. About the only thing you would need in addition is a low profile conical hat that has a spring seat the same diameter as his springs, which is pretty easy to find (60mm can be bought from KW customer service, and other sizes are readily available all over the place). Only additional thing I might do is shorten the underside bushing a bit as it's overly long based on Dennis Grant's original design (it puts the conical wastefully too far below the hat and wastes suspension travel for no gain).

Make sure whatever coilovers you get are re-valveable (hopefully a standard shim stack design) so you can adjust spring rates later, because the rates you've chosen are really way off for racing. Of course if this never races then the low rear rate will be much more comfy.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
What does "need titanium shims to reduce brake pad feel" mean? The titanium shims are heat shields for the calipers to reduce heat on the piston seals and brake fluid, and don't really do anything for any sort of brake feel. Well, that's not entirely true, they can every so slightly reduce how deep you have to go in the pedal on hard braking when the pads start to get really thin, but... that's almost negligible as they are either .5 or 1mm thick depending on what you get.

On the Fortune Auto thing, there's no reason you couldn't get a set of spherical hats, either made (the Dennis Grant solidworks file I can provide) or purchased from RTM if they have them in stock, then adjust the bushings to suit the shock diameter on the fortune shocks. It's a pretty easy thing to assemble. About the only thing you would need in addition is a low profile conical hat that has a spring seat the same diameter as his springs, which is pretty easy to find (60mm can be bought from KW customer service, and other sizes are readily available all over the place). Only additional thing I might do is shorten the underside bushing a bit as it's overly long based on Dennis Grant's original design (it puts the conical wastefully too far below the hat and wastes suspension travel for no gain).

Make sure whatever coilovers you get are re-valveable (hopefully a standard shim stack design) so you can adjust spring rates later, because the rates you've chosen are really way off for racing. Of course if this never races then the low rear rate will be much more comfy.

From reading online stoptech and apracing say that shims are somewhat of an interferance and take away pad feel (what ever that means) they say to not run anything not even copper seize on the pads aswell.

The fortune auto part is an easy fix but i cant be dealing with adding more cost to an item thats not already the best and if so i could just build the DG koni shocks but the BC are good and everything is revalveable and rebuildable in the UK which is my main reason for going with them and i actually think i posted the wrong rates. I will confirm but i think i have ordered 900/450 in my head but will check, i had it wrote on a bit of paper i had when working stuff out on but i seem to have misplaced it LOL,

they are not being made just yet anyway ao i got another month for changes.
 

TSiAWD666

Supporting Vendor
2,626
852
Aug 15, 2003
Herndon, Virginia
I have noticed zero difference in "feel" with and without shims. Take my one anecdote for what it's worth :) I'd like to know where you read this though as I've not ever seen any commentary on shims or anti-seize affecting brake feel. Got links?
 

Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,617
404
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
Good luck to you, ec17pse. Sounds like you have the right thought path.

John, do you really think he needs more spring in the rear? Maybe with a ton of down force, otherwise....?
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
I can try find link again its been a while but i do remember quite abit from the read and thats why ive said about not using this method, shims/shields are ok on stock pistons but all aftermarkets dont require them, i read it online and although im sure its ok to do as many do and i have done in the past on stock brakes but most are using stock pistons aswell so the heat barrier is needed more. It might still be on the stoptech website but I shall have a look and add the link in if i do find it
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Good luck to you, ec17pse. Sounds like you have the right thought path.

John, do you really think he needs more spring in the rear? Maybe with a ton of down force, otherwise....?
John originally helped me choose some rates which i was going to go with and then i was advised from someone local to me that im not his car and mine dont have aero like he does at the moment so going that route would be super bad for my car possibly in the future yes going higer in the rear is a good idea but for now ive been told to go this route. I had thought about 900 front 500 rear, just playing it safe for now till i can get the car to a fully testabke state and after next year i will know more on what to alter.
 

TSiAWD666

Supporting Vendor
2,626
852
Aug 15, 2003
Herndon, Virginia
If he's going to race, absolutely. I've driven my DSM with rates devised solely based on motion ratios, the kind of balance with a big front spring and low rear spring, and it's mediocre and leaves a lot of push. It sucks. Sucks is a relative term though, so you have to ask to what does it suck in comparison? I've also driven the kind of balance I'm talking about with a higher rear than front by 10% and it's 100 times better, on a non-aero 2g (mine), well before I had any sort of aero. I didn't come up with this shit by pulling it out of my ass or being smart, but rather it was Andrew Brilliant and Robert Fuller, both who know so much more than probably the rest of 2g owners in the world combined when it comes to tuning 2g suspension. My aero has very little to do with the balance for racing. The high rates overall (900lbs front, 1000lbs. rear) I run compensate for aero, and people saying otherwise are talking about of their ass from reading websites without much real world experience driving these cars. The debate is tiresome... bench racers who have never raced a 2g vs the tiny tiny handful of us that have on both schemes, and if you want to go with the bench racers, go for it. We've tried both, others haven't, and that's all there is to it.

That'll be my last comment on the subject. Bobby's not likely to race any time soon so if he wants a comfy sort of performing ride he might get it with that setup (though I'd go WAY lighter on the front if I were him because 900 lbs up front, regardless of how good his shocks are, is going to be a bit jarring on a street/show car).
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
I wont be racing in any series or comp's just track days and open track events, the idea is to just get me more into racing so 1 day i can go into a full series but for now just some fun. It will be used sometimes on the roads but barely does alot on the roads these days anyway,

I know we have had this convo before John but your suggesting a 800F/880R is the better option being 10% higher in the rear? I honestly do listen to you being the same car your knowledge and you know more then most in this field so im not going against you. So you recon the 800/880 is the best option in your eyes?

Being only ever tracked this car on stock springs and suspension before my koni's its hard to say whats really needed but i do know the front needs alot more and the idea was to add the big rear anti roll bar so the lower spring rate can help it along as an aid as advised from threads in here and suspension sites ive been reading over the course of the year. It is hard to get it right! 1 person says This way is best, others say no its way more then you want (same cars different people) and its all trial and error!

I may buy 2 sets of springs and trial both way out! Worst case is i keep them for later if i stick with the 800/400 or if i keep the 800/880 i will just sell the lower spring for the rear.

Thanks for the input. Will have a think and update as i get there
 

Black95TSIawd

Proven Member
2,617
404
Jan 28, 2003
Dirty, New_Jersey
If he's going to race, absolutely. I've driven my DSM with rates devised solely based on motion ratios, the kind of balance with a big front spring and low rear spring, and it's mediocre and leaves a lot of push. It sucks. Sucks is a relative term though, so you have to ask to what does it suck in comparison? I've also driven the kind of balance I'm talking about with a higher rear than front by 10% and it's 100 times better, on a non-aero 2g (mine), well before I had any sort of aero. I didn't come up with this sh** by pulling it out of my ass or being smart, but rather it was Andrew Brilliant and Robert Fuller, both who know so much more than probably the rest of 2g owners in the world combined when it comes to tuning 2g suspension. My aero has very little to do with the balance for racing. The high rates overall (900lbs front, 1000lbs. rear) I run compensate for aero, and people saying otherwise are talking about of their ass from reading websites without much real world experience driving these cars. The debate is tiresome... bench racers who have never raced a 2g vs the tiny tiny handful of us that have on both schemes, and if you want to go with the bench racers, go for it. We've tried both, others haven't, and that's all there is to it.

That'll be my last comment on the subject. Bobby's not likely to race any time soon so if he wants a comfy sort of performing ride he might get it with that setup (though I'd go WAY lighter on the front if I were him because 900 lbs up front, regardless of how good his shocks are, is going to be a bit jarring on a street/show car).


Not sure if I missed something... wasn't trying to offend/anger you! :hmm: :D

Great information nonetheless. I have 800/400 now and I drive my car on the street wayyy too much to go any higher in the rear.
 

2gmitsueclipse

DSM Wiseman
2,381
731
Jul 13, 2005
Auburn Hills, Michigan
I have been looking into the same Brembo brake build when my 2g is a pavement-event only car. I may also suggest the Porshe GT3 air duct for additional brake cooling. I love the Carbotech pads, and will carry the XP10 for the Brembo.

Even though they cannot be re-valved, I am piecing together the DG setup.

Good luck with the build. It is nice to see others actually tracking their DSM so we can learn from one another!
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Not sure if I missed something... wasn't trying to offend/anger you! :hmm: :D

Great information nonetheless. I have 800/400 now and I drive my car on the street wayyy too much to go any higher in the rear.
Well since this last chat i decided to do some intense research and found going higer then the fronts is bad and i will add the info i found aswell to back this up from a reputable person, although its autocross it is deemed similer setups,

I have decided to up the rear more then the 2/1 ratio and go 800F/500R so its more on the rear but not over the limit as the big bar in the back can be added to also make it stiffer so still room to play with, i can change spring rates if needs be,

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ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
I have been looking into the same Brembo brake build when my 2g is a pavement-event only car. I may also suggest the Porshe GT3 air duct for additional brake cooling. I love the Carbotech pads, and will carry the XP10 for the Brembo.

Even though they cannot be re-valved, I am piecing together the DG setup.

Good luck with the build. It is nice to see others actually tracking their DSM so we can learn from one another!
The air ducting is next on my list as i am also making this from scratch to make sure i am happy with the design plus i can fabricate it so its cheaper and easier for me to do it.

I had considered the DG setup but as they cannot be good enough for high spring rates whats why i stayed clear. Yes BC might not be the best but i can always upgrade to external canister for the better system or swap to inverted setup being better for racingso I have options to upgrade which is nice
 
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ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
This is a list of all the fuel/turbo/engine upgrades for the 2nd stage of the process, some parts of which I already have and some I am still in the middle of ordering and ive not decided on some aswell but it could change.

The turbo,

Evo 3 16G turbo built with,
KTS billet 6 blade comp wheel entended tips (DONE)
Turbolab upgraded bearings (DONE)
9 blade turbine wheel for increased mid-top end (DONE)
ported as much as possible (DONE)
kinugawa or mamba adjustable wastegate Changed to Forge (DONE)
comp housing clocked down. (DONE)

Fueling,

Fic high Z 1100 injectors W/resister plug to install
deatchwerks dw200 fuel pump (DONE)
6AN tank to rail hose (DONE)
Rci fuelrail/AFPR/Fuel filter (DONE) AFPR changed to Radium engineering (DONE)
Pump rewire kit (DONE)

Intake/exhaust,

Evo3 intake manifold To install
evo 3 60mm throttle body To install
FP race manifold (DONE)
treadstone performance tr8 intercooler (DONE)
custom made stainless (thin) intercooler piping (reduced number of silicone hoses) (DONE) but alloy for now,

Added extras,
frontline custom billet valve cover,dipstick,cam sensor cover (DONE)
custom built power steering res (Manual rack in the works)
custom built catch can Calan V3
custom built overflow tank (DONE)
ecmlink electronic boost controller for V3
Arp bolt/stud kit for head turbo and o2 housing (decided to make my one stud and nut kit as its stronger)
road surge shift kit with home made paddle shifters for the evo 8 steering wheel (DONE) but opted for a track formula wireless paddle system instead!
rear tire blockoff cover (DONE)
ram air headlight (high beam removal)
B&M trans and oil coolers (DONE)
Evo 9 OFH (DONE)
auto upgraded end clutch kit
kiggly HLA (DONE)
PC680 battery and small tray (Ditched for an internal battery mount instead)
cartek electronic battery kill system (DONE) but went manual not electronic

Fluids,
evans waterless powercool 180 engine coolant (opted for normal water and water wetter)
millers auto trans fluid (DONE) but sucks and will change
valvoline 20W50 VR1 oil/royal purple hps 20/50 (DONE) HPS oil still used 10W40

much more added along the way aswel


any plans for an LSD? Wavetrac or Quaife?
not as of yet, i do want one but its not in this upgrade path but when the trans gets a make over thats when it will be dealt with.
 
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ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
So i got a few more items in and some parts prepped,

my headlight is now apart and so work begins on that, just figuring out the best way to do it and what material to use.

Going to install the rear panel and make my seat brackets hopefully in the next month.

A pic of the garage and some of the many items ive got stored and hiding awaiting for the upgrades.
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ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Another little step in progress...

First is the evo 9 OFH, i wanted to get all my fittings for it and i wanted to lightly port the oil relief valve area, not alot as i still have balance shafts but as I want to race more I think its going to be better having something rather then nothing!

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I also received my forge actuator last week with the red 20 PSI spring inside, it ment I could move on to making a bracket for it as its now clocked to fire down i could not use any of the oem mouting locations for the original actuator!

It was a tricky task as ive seen TRE's and a few other clocked comp housings and although they was ok i thought i would try stay away from rewelding new bushes on (even though i already made some incase) but Icame up with this idea!!! Its strong and is the best I could possibly do with using the oem waterline mounting holes, all made from 304L stainless steel it does not move and i tested it to 22 PSI and as I will only be running 18-20 PSI i found it to be very good and solid, the flapper opens a good 11-12mm without binding so i know ive got it in a good location and it wont jam open or closed!

next on this is to check the outlet clearence on the comp housing as my first pipe will be welded directly to this (Aluminum) its going to be a 90* flared to 2.5" and swaged for a coupler then going 1 or 1.2mm walled stainless there after for the entire intercooler piping.

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ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
So over the last 2 weeks I have been getting calipers ready for paint. they went to soda blasting and then I washed them and gave them a little scuff up fr the primer.

the brand was VHT caliper paint, sprayed well and I only cleared the rears as I hear mixed stories about the clear so I am going to trial it and see which does work best!

came out pretty nicely and the color is great and very bright red.

all topped off with stainless bleed nipples, Stainless Banjo bolts and 12.9 Grade caliper bolts OH AND OF COURSE THE RB Stainless pistons and High temp dust deals rated to 450F!!! If this was food it would be a great tasting MEAL!

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ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Been waiting to get this done since feb! Finally got around to getting the valve cover anodized after it sitting in my garage for a while in the box, now its free well kinda it goes back in the box till early next year when it all goes on! I got some other items anodized aswell since it makes sence to do it in 1 batch and no color change, now i got to buy them expensive fittings soon.

Turbos compressor housing is being worked on aswell now and is receiving its red coloring too since i managed to get the bung and pipe welded on to make it fire down with a bend. So turbo will be going soon for the KTS wheel and vsr balanced.

Lots of parts have turned up and i am going to start getting some items installed soon that can be installed that dont require ecmlink to adjust etc so it makes the end task a little bit easier rather then everything in 1 go!

More updates and pics hopefully soon.

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ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Not much to tell on it. Its made from billet and frontline fabrication produces them, they are nice and it was actually an unintended buy LOL
 

chinola69

Proven Member
642
27
Sep 22, 2007
Yonkers, New_York
Follow this closely going to be doing pretty much the same with my car. Curious to know what spring rates you decide on? Was going to go 700/350 which seems to be the most popular.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Follow this closely going to be doing pretty much the same with my car. Curious to know what spring rates you decide on? Was going to go 700/350 which seems to be the most popular.

I actually cannot remember and have lost the paper.i was working from on those. But i kept them on hold till at least feb as i dont them sitting here doing nothing for 4-6 months loosing the warranty incase something did happen to them, so i will get them processed in feb/march when i am closer to the end hopefully. I think i decided on a 728 f and 392 r thay are like that as thats the converted rate fron KG which BC list KG so its 13/7 kg.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,312
2,612
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Had these done afew weeks ago and forgot to post them up, this is the brake cooling system i made. 2" hose high temp hose that still needs to be bought but the main part of it is done, all stainless steel and i just painted the back section with black stonechip to match the knuckles.

Dont worry this is just 1 of the spare calipers i have so its not the color of them haha. Just seeing what yellow looked like.

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