27psi + E85 + H1-3558x = 482hp/429tq

[turboglenn]

Base timing is so important, so many people don't know about it. It can make it or break it for sure. I check mine periodically just for peace of mind.

Yea, you couldn't imagine how many cars i've "helped people with" in diagnosing "low power" or many other randomely odd descriptions people come up with but when i mention setting the base timing way more than half look at me like i just spouted out some scientific formula for determining the speed of the moon relative to the size of eath in relation to it's distance from the sun

Although the guys driving stock block/head 2g cars don't have to worry about it since it cant be tampered with, they do need to know that when swapping to a 6 bolt engine (OrCAS) that this becomes a very important and relevant piece of routine maintenance (checking and or setting base timing)

ANother thing that bothers me is people with good tuning equipment like DSMlink will still think it's advantageous to set the base timing advanced over thew stock spec to make power (i just think "you idiot. it just tells the computer where the crank is, the TUNE is what you need to use to make the timing curve that adds power) but half don't listenand still think it's better to have it at 8* BTDC opposed to the calledfor 5* btdc... then they don't get that it means the timing in the engine is gonna be 8* over what ever the tune is set at no matter what and while not only being dangerouse will cause them to have weird results when trying to diagnose why the car is knocking at only 17* timing on the map...

ANyway, enough beating the idiots... where can i find a reliable timing light for a half decent price? Somehow i knew when the light told me i was 8* retarded the lasttime i checked it and after advancingthe CAS till almost locked in clockwise direction that something wasn't exactly right, i had no idea that my light was acting up that bad??

I mean on 10* setting on the light and with the ECU locked at 10* , the flash was on "0*", but when setting the light on "0" and reading the marks my timing was showing up on the "safe side" of 10 mark at roughly 8*... But today when i set the light on the wire and started dialling in looking for the crank notch i coudlnt' believe i was looking at 37* advance on the dial to get the mark to line up with the zero mark on the timing cover. And then how much more in shock i became when dialing the light back to arund 22* before the notch even got near the "10*" mark on the timing cover.. Even then, no matter what i did the light would not remain consistant.. I"m realy upset at wondering how long this light has been reading erroneousely?? I mean i've been just setting the static timing for years by locking the ECU to 10* then using the light on it's "no advance compensation or 0 on the dial" and making sure i was on the 10* mark on the cover for years. Until the last adjustment and now, I've never really second guessed the lights accuracy. I've never experienced the thing people talk about with the light reading RPM in double as i've never had a light the reads the RPM of the engine. Now i'm really suspicious about how the timing always seemedto "jump around" where ever is set it when doing a check or adjustment..seemed the notch had a tendency to move about 2* tops in one direction or another from the desired setting, I always thought this was maybe due to some flex/slack or what hve you because of the timing belt either tightening or slacking up with pulsing of the engine or something, I never considered that my light might be retarded./..

I have one last place to try and hunt down a light at the "street races" a.k.a. going to the local sonic and seeing if anyone i know that actually works on their own cars is there and has one i can get tonight .. I can make pulls up to probably around 2AM if i can come up with one and the AIR is so perfect i REALLY REALLY wanna try and bust 500hp tonight and see how far past that mark i can get (if any)without exceeding 30psi, although i know that boost pressures are nothing in comparison to the combustion pressures and that it's not the commonly believedmyth that "too much boost" is a problem because "30 psi of pressure is more than the internals and head gasket can withstand to be under" (i stilllaugh when people say "the engine can't handle 30psi") but back toi my thought, it's that i'd like to stay well within the realm of my GM3bar map sensor and not have to buy another boost gauge to read past 30psi (most seem to not read vacum when you get one that goes past 30, but i have seen some that read vacum and still read up to i think 35psi, that would be perfect) Also my GM3 bar, for some reason in the haltech software, has load points up to 32psi for a cieling and the kpa even equals out to show that accurate.. I wonder if it would have anything to do with my relative postion compared to sea level or if it's just a tad bit of "safety margin" that the sensor can really pick up

who knows, is there a god, did the chicken or the egg, did we really come from apes, are DSM's really reliable... all questiosn that tonight i cannot seemto be able to put a definite answer too (exceopt the god one any way )

 

[Chicken Patty]

Yea, you couldn't imagine how many cars i've "helped people with" in diagnosing "low power" or many other randomely odd descriptions people come up with but when i mention setting the base timing way more than half look at me like i just spouted out some scientific formula for determining the speed of the moon relative to the size of eath in relation to it's distance from the sun

Although the guys driving stock block/head 2g cars don't have to worry about it since it cant be tampered with, they do need to know that when swapping to a 6 bolt engine (OrCAS) that this becomes a very important and relevant piece of routine maintenance (checking and or setting base timing)

ANother thing that bothers me is people with good tuning equipment like DSMlink will still think it's advantageous to set the base timing advanced over thew stock spec to make power (i just think "you idiot. it just tells the computer where the crank is, the TUNE is what you need to use to make the timing curve that adds power) but half don't listenand still think it's better to have it at 8* BTDC opposed to the calledfor 5* btdc... then they don't get that it means the timing in the engine is gonna be 8* over what ever the tune is set at no matter what and while not only being dangerouse will cause them to have weird results when trying to diagnose why the car is knocking at only 17* timing on the map...

ANyway, enough beating the idiots... where can i find a reliable timing light for a half decent price? Somehow i knew when the light told me i was 8* retarded the lasttime i checked it and after advancingthe CAS till almost locked in clockwise direction that something wasn't exactly right, i had no idea that my light was acting up that bad??

I mean on 10* setting on the light and with the ECU locked at 10* , the flash was on "0*", but when setting the light on "0" and reading the marks my timing was showing up on the "safe side" of 10 mark at roughly 8*... But today when i set the light on the wire and started dialling in looking for the crank notch i coudlnt' believe i was looking at 37* advance on the dial to get the mark to line up with the zero mark on the timing cover. And then how much more in shock i became when dialing the light back to arund 22* before the notch even got near the "10*" mark on the timing cover.. Even then, no matter what i did the light would not remain consistant.. I"m realy upset at wondering how long this light has been reading erroneousely?? I mean i've been just setting the static timing for years by locking the ECU to 10* then using the light on it's "no advance compensation or 0 on the dial" and making sure i was on the 10* mark on the cover for years. Until the last adjustment and now, I've never really second guessed the lights accuracy. I've never experienced the thing people talk about with the light reading RPM in double as i've never had a light the reads the RPM of the engine. Now i'm really suspicious about how the timing always seemedto "jump around" where ever is set it when doing a check or adjustment..seemed the notch had a tendency to move about 2* tops in one direction or another from the desired setting, I always thought this was maybe due to some flex/slack or what hve you because of the timing belt either tightening or slacking up with pulsing of the engine or something, I never considered that my light might be retarded./..

I have one last place to try and hunt down a light at the "street races" a.k.a. going to the local sonic and seeing if anyone i know that actually works on their own cars is there and has one i can get tonight .. I can make pulls up to probably around 2AM if i can come up with one and the AIR is so perfect i REALLY REALLY wanna try and bust 500hp tonight and see how far past that mark i can get (if any)without exceeding 30psi, although i know that boost pressures are nothing in comparison to the combustion pressures and that it's not the commonly believedmyth that "too much boost" is a problem because "30 psi of pressure is more than the internals and head gasket can withstand to be under" (i stilllaugh when people say "the engine can't handle 30psi") but back toi my thought, it's that i'd like to stay well within the realm of my GM3bar map sensor and not have to buy another boost gauge to read past 30psi (most seem to not read vacum when you get one that goes past 30, but i have seen some that read vacum and still read up to i think 35psi, that would be perfect) Also my GM3 bar, for some reason in the haltech software, has load points up to 32psi for a cieling and the kpa even equals out to show that accurate.. I wonder if it would have anything to do with my relative postion compared to sea level or if it's just a tad bit of "safety margin" that the sensor can really pick up

who knows, is there a god, did the chicken or the egg, did we really come from apes, are DSM's really reliable... all questiosn that tonight i cannot seemto be able to put a definite answer too (exceopt the god one any way )

Dude, I use my buddies timing light which is hella simple one. Not sure on brand or where he got it but it works great, nothing fancy.

...and I get what you mean about the idiots . Had a buddy with a 1991 TSi AWD back in the days. Had just a Walbro 255, some EVO 8 injectors, big 16 like at 20 psi and nothing to control fuel nor WIdeband. He would just mess with the CAS and think its making 300whp. At the time I had a FMIC, turboback 3" exhaust, Walbro 255, intake and a SAFC. With my stock T25, tuned at about 15-16psi I used to walk him hard. There's a wrong way and a right way to do things. For sure he wasn't doing them the right way.

 

[turboglenn]

FOr sure, well tonight was heaven and hell both.. I was at 507hp and rich as hell (11.7 anyway) then as i leaned it down and did a few more pulls i got really happy with the wya things were going (timing still very low mind you) and started pulling fuel a little more aggressively throughout the boost building curve, well when things started getting into the "good zone" that's when things went bad...

I was in third gear, revving to about 6000 RPM when all the sudden "neutral" hit, I panicked, clicked fourth; it was there...back to third, nothing. AS the wheels were spinning down to a stop I smelled trans fluid burning and knew my night had gotten shitty

In an anxiety filled moment of frustration i simply toldeveryone good night, kept the car running and drove the 2 miles home.. I"m noit sure what happened, and i'm not sure of anything aside from not having third gear and there's a hole in the transmission

I have no clue how i'm gonna get through replacing this, I have few toys left to sell, the only real one being a 1/5th scale R/C gas powered car that's mostly custom work.. I should be able to sell it used for 1500 with everything i have for spares included with it, but we'll see i guess.. I received a text from a friend and he said that 522hp was the magic number, and the power hadn't peaked out yet eithe. That's supposedly what was in the data from the run on which the trans broke.. That info is all second hand as I am still frantic ut a friend was still wanting to sit and load data and watch results after i left.. I exited the programs and slapped the notebook shut, I didn't wanna know anything about tuning.. i just wanted this to be a dream

The ride home sounded horrible and i cinged as speed increased but i didn't wanna get a tow for a busted ass trans if it still partially woked, esspecially since i was less than 2miles from home... errr, i'm probably repoeating myself a lot but i'm sorry i'm losing my damn mind at this point and wondering how i'm gonna replace this transmission.... I would like to get an improved unit, and jacks has some decent economy prices but man, i'm a broke ass!!! , I just fixed the A/C and put new wiper bladeson it today too i'll be damned if i don't have the worst luck in the ####ing world!@@@ I guess if i ever grab the sheet with the partial pull on it i can officially be a member of the 500whp club, but to be honest, i just want the damn car running again and driving with all its' gears and not leaking trans fluid!!!!!!!

Anyone have a DIRT CHEAP early style (1995) 2g GSX trans to sell me or tradefor a bad-assed 6.5hp R/C gas buggy????

 

[rr06rs]

Sorry to hear that man. I can empathize, as if been in your exact spot, what I learned since then, u gotta pay to play. Especially, when you wanna play with your daily driver. This is why I now have a fully assembled spare longblock, spare tranny, and 2 spare t cases and rear ends. Congrats on making it to the 500awhp club though!! Just remember from this point forward that each club has any entry fee......you can pay now(build it)......or pay later(break it).....

 

[turboglenn]

Sorry to hear that man. I can empathize, as if been in your exact spot, what I learned since then, u gotta pay to play. Especially, when you wanna play with your daily driver. This is why I now have a fully assembled spare longblock, spare tranny, and 2 spare t cases and rear ends. Congrats on making it to the 500awhp club though!! Just remember from this point forward that each club has any entry fee......you can pay now(build it)......or pay later(break it).....

OH,i knew the price to be paid, I'd just hoped it would be at a better time, but is there ever a better time?? and this is the last club i'm afterhonestly, it's been more than enough to please me, get me wicked traffic tickets for barely stepping on it for a couple second stops,and is the stage where i don't want to have to start upgrading everything else that's supporting or drivetrain mods in order to keep the car together

Now i just can't figure out what company to go with (Jacks, TRE, Shep) TRE i have owned before and love but they are the mostexpensive, but have the cheapest core fee for 2g AWD cases (half of what jacks wants or i'd be putting in a jacks asap) shep seems to do more than jacks, and at a price that's fairly close to the jacks, but i'm unsure of his wait time on an exchange and his core fee.. i'm barely able to fix this if at all

the other thing is the diff for the front CV's seems tohave knocked a chunk out of the bottom of the trans (small one, but still there) so i'm imagining that's wheere the piece of 3rd gear escaped from and although something i could fix with the piece (i know where it SHOULD BE , but i dopn't have it in hand

I was thinking about the clusters from jacks if the cases werestill perfect,m but some he says he much have your old ones and some he doesn't ask for your old ones (or don't specify when thye are upgrades to versions where he says he needs em) either way i have to get on the road fast, i have too much doctor stuff and too much stuff for social security that i can't miss at all or they just cancle you (already been dropped once in teh first 2 weeks on SSI income)

arghhh i have no ####ing clue what to do.. I found a used on in classifieds here in town i can afford but 2nd gear grinds, my 2nd gear is perfect, wonder if i can make one good one out of two??

it would be nice if i could get a decent offer on either my dbb 50 trim T3 or My 5th scale gas buggy (baja 5b) that has about 4k dollars in it including the extra parts, hell the engine alone is almost a grand complete and i haven't listed it yet cause i don't rewallyt wann ahave to sell it but i'm sure i can get 1500 pretty fast if i'm willing to ship it where ever

Update, June 23rd 10:36pm..

Haven't found my piece of casing, and pretty much sure i'm gonna buy a trans from Jacks transmissions in colorado, i've some what been in touch through PM and leaving messages so i just have to figure out the details and try and get some money coming, I don't know if I'll do any more dyno pulls after getting the new trans though, hell I might not even go to 30psi again

But i'm sure most of it was age and fatigue oin the gears that caused the failure because i've been up to these power lkevels before on this trans and it held, but i knew from the looseness, age and wear already on the trans when i put it in that it wouldn't last long at high power levels.

Pretty sure i'll be taking it easy on the car for a while, at least until i get my backpay from social security and can afford to have Jack build me something a little better, hell i'dgo auto if i didn't hear somany tales of trannies overheating on the interstate and what not, plus I don't wanna change the damn t-case and rear diff since i have these already and the diff is an LSD unit (plus i have a spare non lsd diff just in case)

well, i'll update as i go, hopefully i'll know more aboiut the pull that broke everything soon but honestly i haven't wanted to talk about the breakage all day as it's just been too damn stressfull on me since i'm not really in the financial spot to be playing with making power out of a car i have to depend on for my medical needs

 

[turboglenn]

Well, time for an update.. I have borrowed a car from my family since i have many important thigs to take care of aside from the car, and wanting to do the car right

I've pulled down 3 trannies at this point that i had gotten as "replacements" you wouldn't believe how many "running" trannies in stock engine cars have busted center diffs and teeth missing off gears inside even though they drove fine and only makde what was described as "a little noise in "X" gear"

Anyway, the third time was the charm, I nbought a trans off a member here on tuners in my same town, and knowing the 2nd gear syncro was bad he agreed to let me open the trans and inspect the rest fo the gears.. they were all in good order, but the CD was on the verge of going ourt from old shims breaking up!!

I'm pulling the transout of my car as we speak (just 2 x 14mm bolts and the top tranny mount left to go) Oh and the 12mm i need for the slave cylidner removeal (can't find my 12!!!!!!!!)

I have to say out of all the tranny places i tried calling, (three of them being TRE whom i've spent lots with in the past, Jacks who i was wiling to give a shot because he was close, and Tim Zimmer a.k.a. twick69 on here) Tim was the best at not only taking my concerns and limitations and not only listening to them but coming up with a few plans that stuck with in them, but he was the only one that acted like he even wanted my business when it was said that i didn't have a lot to spend.. After a few long talks on the phone with him and a few PM's later i almost feel as if i could build the trans myself, and the BEST part is, that even though it would cut into his proffits if i did build it, TIm was totally willing to walk me through every single step and possible problem that could come with those steps.. I cna't say enough about how well i've been treated and how awesome of a guy tim is in general.. I won't go into detail about the answers and lack of answers i gotfrom jacks and TRE, but i will say that With all the help Tim gave me, if there's ANYTHING I can buy from him or help him by sending work his way, i wil do it. I"m a person that takes personal service as the A#1 reason to do business with anyone (price being second usually on a tie with quality of service and parts) but that being said, any dollars i spend on a trans will be going towards Tim's pockets!

HEre's where i'm at, no money for a huge upgrade so i'm taking the good 98 trans i got and having all new syncros put in it, and may use partst from my bad trans if any are in better shape (mainly 2nd gear) as well as i'll be putting in new bearings and shimming the trans on my own (only part i'm really not keen on doing to be honest)

I had hoped to find a way to make a stronger 3rd and 4th gears on this build but it's not looking like it's in the budget at this point.. I had looked at getting them shot peened locally, but couldn't reach anyone that was fair in pricing (most wanted a bulk of business and not just 2 gears) SO i MIGHT detail the gears myself, i also wanted the syncro detailing or whatever work ewas equal to that from TMZ but money being tight i'll take what i can get and based on the fact that my old now blown trans shifted GREAT for as old as it was i'm sure i'll be fine shifting on the new trans on just fresh syncros..

I don't know if i'll be down to make any more dyno pulls at the 500+HP levels because i cn'at blow another tranny this year, PERIOD! I was hoping to get the EVO 3/4 upgrade but again, money is tight, If i coudl still sell this DBB 50trim i'd have more money for parts, but DSM parts sales seems slow right now

I've also got a t-case from 95-96 (forget the spline count and which one is early style) and i have a NON-LSD rear diff that i'm also placing up for sale so if those bring me any moeny i just MIGHT get that EVO 3/4 gear package

I'll update as i makre progress, I"ll post pics of the blown trans tonight in here as well

 

[bastarddsm]

Detail and shot peen, 3rd, 4th, the intermediate shaft, and the center diff. Then also do the torington bearing mod. You'll be set durability wise.

I'd avoid the EVO 3rd and 4th. The gears have one less tooth and the intermediate shaft stays the same... That makes the lash bigger and the teeth drive closer to the tips, and thats bad.

 

[rr06rs]

Out of curiosity, does Tim offer cluster stacks like Jack's does?

 

[turboglenn]

Detail and shot peen, 3rd, 4th, the intermediate shaft, and the center diff. Then also do the torington bearing mod. You'll be set durability wise.

I'd avoid the EVO 3rd and 4th. The gears have one less tooth and the intermediate shaft stays the same... That makes the lash bigger and the teeth drive closer to the tips, and thats bad.

I'm not going EVOon 3/4 gears, just stock DSM, I would like thr torrington bearing but we will see what fits in my budget

Out of curiosity, does Tim offer cluster stacks like Jack's does?

not on his website, butif you contact him i'm sure he's willing to work with whatever you need. great guy!

 

[bastarddsm]

I'm not going EVOon 3/4 gears, just stock DSM, I would like thr torrington bearing but we will see what fits in my budget

The bearing is like $10, and your counterbore the top of the cd. Easy as pie. Seriously tho, I'd spend money on durability before trying to make it shift nice.

 

[turboglenn]

IF i had machining details i'd be down to add that in, I've heard you remove .0240-.0244" from it but i don't know where exactly and also am unsure of the hardnesss of the CD housing

Also, I haven't seen the bearing listed anywhere on it's own, just at Jack's for 85 dollars with the top piece of the CD already machined..PLus breaking third gear at a roll on through the power from the low end RPM (aprox ~3000k RPM start) I really haven't fealt that i've reached the limit of the CD's abuse handling so much a i have reached the torque rating of the third and fourth gears

I would love to go 4 spider but that's a little far off, However in the rebuild i'm doing i do end up with one good CD (needs shims though) and one bad one that has the steel shim welded into it's housing,I was thinking about trying to ewld the bad housing pieces into a solid CD, and then finding a bad VC and machining off the excess mass and turning the inner races into a VC eliminator, i know i don't kneed both the VCE and a welded CD, but i sure would like to eliminate the mass of the VC in the drivelineif i could

People have argues with methat the VC is nothing in terms of mass in the driveline, but i beg to differ, the amount of weight that can be pulled off the driveline before the final drive gears is massive inthe VC, thing has to weigh in around 7 lbs and where it's taken from would be liuke eliminating prbably 40+_ lbs in wheel/tire weight

I doubt i'd use the welded CD or the VC hjonestly, but having them around as spares couldn't hurt much,, hell i might just sell the VC as is, it's in good shape and from what i've seen on them for priocing new and used, i'd probably do best just selling it to some one I'd really like to get a few bucks out of the trans cases and other parts that are good i possible too - i have the output shaft, front diff, CD, VC, middle casing, back two pieces of casing and al the other little stuff including the 23 spline transfer case that's good for the ratios of the car from 92-99 (or mayhbe i should keep that and swap in the ring gear to still use it an sell the 97-99style one?? and aside from the bel housing and gear shafts everything else in little parts is still there too)

Anyway, i'll keep everything updated as i go... i got really lucky in that i didn't harm anything but the third gears on both shafts, being such a short time having run on the bad trans to get it home, and luckily it didn't suck parts into any other gears at all, i can consider myself some what lucky for a trans grenading, now if ican only end up withy a budget built trans that shifts s good as the old bone stock 95 talon trans did i'll be happy.. of course one that doesn'tmake the noises my trans made when running woud be nice too, I think it shited so well because the bearingswere worn out and made for loose tolorances in the input and intermediate shafts

Update from today's progress made after stripping a ton of trans and deciding what to use to get back on the road

new thread posted here

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dri...ans-1200-teardown-parts-replace-new-post.html