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2020 shootout to allow Hondas, Audis, and Subarus and no one should be happy about it.

Posted by jakk220, May 28, 2020

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  1. jakk220

    jakk220 Proven Member

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    So as some of you probably have already heard, the 2020 shootout is now going to allow Hondas, Audis, and Subarus for the Quick 32 class. Which in my opinion is a slap in the face to the community in my opinion. Regardless of attendance there should NEVER be any other brands of cars allowed in ANY class. I think some people would be more comfortable with the idea of adding another car, such as maybe a supra, but to add 3 whole new brands of cars to a class that is DSM specific is unnecessary. If the event dies then it dies and its no one's fault but the car community.

    This is an event that has had a "family" feel ever since I have even attending and is the only drag event I even care to go to every year because of that reason. When you start adding multiple different brands you are now dividing that family among the crowd separated by honda and subaru owners who know nothing about our cars. You lose being able to go up and talk to any random person about dsms and they know what you are talking about.

    This will eventually over flow into other classes if it even takes off. The only thing we can do to prevent this is to keep flooding the event with Mitsus and GTRs to prove we don't need those brands. If we stop attending then the event will eventually just be an open event. And no one wants that.

    The last class that got added (the RB powered class) I don't believe had any sign ups that I saw. So I don't forsee this taking off either because it has never been a part of those communities and I don't think it will appeal to them given the current demographic involved with those brands. We need to just stay our course and keep attending for the time being unless the event ACTUALLY gets taken over by ther brands. Until that happens there is no need to boycott. It will only make it worse. If that happens Kevin Jewer is already creating another event to hold as a "Second shootout". But until it gets bad we need to keep supporting the event.

    I do encourage everyone to voice their opinion to IDRC and Dsport so that we can all be heard and hopefully they will listen. They have taken the advice of us before with things such as max effort so we need to give them a chance to fix it before we just stop attending all together. Feel free to post thoughts below and I can send them a link to this thread so they can see how much noise this actually caused.
     

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  2. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

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    While it is disheartening that the event is being diluted by other brands, I feel that it's a bit harsh to say we couldn't walk up to other car people and talk to them. While they may not know everything about DSMs, if they walk up to us and ask things I'm happy to answer them. It happens all the time at car meets here, and while there are definitely cliques of car enthusiasts, most of us are minded to respect one another and enjoy each other's passion.

    Allowing other makes/models into a class is purely a move to increase attendance I'm sure. I'm not wild about a competition being open to alot of other brands unless it's advertised as an open competition, NOT a DSM shootout. I mean, they already allow Nissans in, and years ago I thought of that as a slap in the face.

    I think of myself as more inclusive and open as I grow older, and while I love the idea of a big turnout for the event, it does feel like a bit if a slight to open the field so quickly to so many other makes that frankly didn't help build the event at all.

    Idk, I'm trying to go this year regardless, so we will see what happens. I won't be competing, just going for the experience, but it'd be unfortunate if it's overrun by everything but DSMs...
     

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  3. EShield

    EShield Supporting Member

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    The reason I traveled hundreds of miles for this is because it was DSM focused. Now that is decaying and my position on it is simple, I can go to local events at a much lower cost and inconvenience factor that have a wide array of brands. I'm staying home. It's a personal choice we will all face but my rationale tells me the best choice for me is to skip this and go to Kevin's event instead.
     

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  4. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

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    Info not have social media of any kind, but if Kevin is having an event solely for DSMs, I'd be interested in that as well depending on details. Is there any place for info on his possible event?
     

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  5. iugrad92turbo

    iugrad92turbo Supporting Member

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    I"m still going its a lot of fun to see the dsm family ive known for years, seeing the builds too.
     

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  6. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

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    Looks like an event on the Marion County Raceway Facebook page. Scheduled for late September. According to the schedule on the website it was meant to be spring but I assume it has been pushed back. Says DSM/EVO
     

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  7. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

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    This would be my first year attending and I’d prefer it to be dsm/evo/gtr. Like @EShield said, I can just go to local track for fraction of the cost if they’re bringing in that many other makes.
     

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  8. ist dwa

    ist dwa Proven Member

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    Not a big deal folks, they are allowing basically AWD imports to run in a quick 32 class, key words here AWD.

    Yeah....... there are so many 5 valve awd 7 seconds Audis that will compete...eye roll.

    The Subby guys will have to remove their bike racks to run down the track and remove their hellaflush wheels.

    AWD CIVICS, LOL, right, there are what 6 of those on the planet.

    Did I miss any body?

    Who cares, they have done this before, it NEVER pans out. It is a Mitsu event and people know that and they don't come. Remember for years we had an all import race on Sundays at the SO and DSMs kicked all their asses and that was the end of that.

    If anything I have had the idea for years that there should be an exotic car class where all OEM cars that cost more MSRP over 100K$ should be allowed to compete. Who doesn't love an exotic, and what DSMer wouldn't love kicking the Shhhit out of some R8, Lambo, etc down the 1320.

    The SO is all but over any ways, it died drastically last year, with Devin out, COVID 19, wages lost, cars not getting done, lost jobs it will take another huge dive.

    It started as a 30 guys grass roots event and will return to that, cycle of life.

    That being said, I am going to Norwalk regardless of COvid, rules, class changes etc. I have quite a few local DSM friends there, we'll have our own SO, I don't need Buschur or Dsport etc to tell me I can or can't have the SO, the SO is about DSMs racing other DSMs and we WILL be doing that.
     

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  9. EShield

    EShield Supporting Member

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    I doubt anyone here is worried about what shows up to race, it is about what shows up to loiter. The Honda crowd is not known for it's shining examplery of maturity. "Gotta go support my vtak brothers, LOLdsmssuck, getrektbyvtec, lulz."
     

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  10. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

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    It's not surprising. The event is now owned and operated by IDRC. The number of participants and spectators for a platform-specific event where the production for that platform spanned only 10 years and ended over 20 years ago is going to be difficult to sustain year in and year out. That's why Evos were added in (they're at least considered 4G63 AWD cousin), then GTR's a few years ago. IDRC will likely keep making changes in order to try and make it a larger event, so that it makes business sense. The spirit of the event and the tradition is secondary. This was inevitable. It's like anything else - there has to be a strong business case for the event.

    Should we all be welcoming of other models at racing events? Sure. Is a more exclusive platform-specific event important for the community? Yes. Can you be respectful of other platforms and still want an event to be focused only on your platform? Yes.

    I wonder how many participants and attendees a true DSM-only event would attract these days. Would it even cover the costs of putting the event on? There has to be enough incentive to bring the really fast cars out, which will then draw more enthusiasts to the event.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020

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  11. EShield

    EShield Supporting Member

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    I suppose we will find out with Kevin Jewer's event.
     

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  12. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

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    Here's Kevin Jewer's (@95GSXracer) event, for those who aren't aware:



    I'll see if there's anything I can do to help with it.
     

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  13. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

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    I guess the biggest question is - will the fastest DSMs/4G63-powered cars make the effort and take on the expense to travel to a smaller, platform-exclusive event? A smaller event usually means smaller exposure, which might mean smaller payouts. The big hitters usually want exposure for their sponsors. Do the fastest people care about the bigger payouts or do they care about putting on a show for the die-hard platform loyalists? And will the community show up to spectate if the big hitters don't show up to put on that show?

    I think what a lot of people love about the SO is that it's the DSM mecca and a place to go meet everyone in the community. Once it expands beyond the platform it gets away from that - at least in the minds of many, right or wrong.

    What if the event were only for show and not for competition? What if the racing was geared more towards setting records for the platform and less about competing head to head? Just thinking out loud here.
     

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  14. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

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  15. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

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  16. EShield

    EShield Supporting Member

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    More reason for us to support Kevin Jewer's event.
     

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  17. jakk220

    jakk220 Proven Member

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    Well there is one big issue with that. Kevin's track will only really support cars that are in the mid 8s at best from what im understanding. And he said that it does get a little iffy even then. So my guess is not as many fast guys would show up because they would be running only the 1/8th mile. Right now it is up in the air what will happen with the event. They are looking at holding it at an air strip, other track, or maybe not at all. They are still going to do the takeover in Wakeman and have the dyno day at minimum so I guess there is at least something. My guess is drag racing is out for this year if I had to guess. Kevins event will be the best we will get on racing this year. Maybe some autoX.

    I think that most of the big timers are 50/50 on the loyalty and pay out. For Devin to wreck the demon beyond repair, and then that same year go buy another 2g to build demon 2.0 means there is obviously a passion for the community. Because at that point its not going to be a financial gain to rebuild. Not to mention when Aaron wasn't able to run at the finals last year because he broke, Devin could have just took it easy down the track and still got his money. He went full send running 1 lane (well 2 because he crossed over LOL). I believe he was even spraying every gear to try and get that 6 second pass for the shootout crowd which was why it didn't hook at all. So in my eyes that means there is definitely a passion for record setting at the shootout.

    I will support Jewers evet 100% because if the shootout is ever killed, it will be all we have. And I know that even if 5 cars showed up, he would continue an event til there are no DSM's left.

    Having no full blown shootout this year actually has me quite upset. Its one thing that I am super passionate about and literally get so excited for the event that I cant sleep the few nights before like a little kid for Christmas. But whatever we can manage this year, I will 100 percent be there. We need the event to keep whatever steam it can this year.

    Also there was a ton of back lash to IDRC about the hondas and what not being added to the Q32 class. So they changed it but it wasnt much better. They added an AWD open class. In which anything AWD could run. So if anything that attracts an even worse crowd and could potentially split up guys like Devin and Aaron. Maybe things will change by next year. I still can not tell what the intentions of IDRC is but I dont think its purely what enthusiasts want. Its like they want to get their way while "appeasing" the community. Well see I guess.
     

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  18. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

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    Of the two other tracks they say they are considering, Thompson would have the same issue as Marion. That track is really not made for 7 (or sub 7) second passes. I've been going to that track since I was a kid and even in my 3G Eclipse with nothing but an Injen intake the shutdown area is not fun and relatively short. It's nothing like Norwalk and would certainly scare away the fastest cars. Drag way 42 just went through a massive overhaul under the new owner. It's not prestigious like Norwalk, it doesn't have the same massive grand stands and amenities either. But it's racing surface is all new and the Akron Sports Car Club (who normally ran the Shootout Autox portion) regularly holds events there with 90 second, 1.5 mile courses. I am hopeful they can make something work there.
     

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  19. jakk220

    jakk220 Proven Member

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    I would not race if it is at Thompson. All I did at that track last year when I raced at Fat mans was wheel hoped, spun tires, and broke stuff. I was spinning second and part of third at that track. I thought my clutch was slipping. Its an ice rink and not even worth it.

    42 would be a good option and would allow some of the faster guys to race 1/4 miIe believe. I have only raced their once since the over haul. If I remember correctly the shut down area was a bit short. But I think it could be managed and would definitely allow from some camping and AutoX. I have an event there in June that I am attending so I could scout it out. Its only going to allow 1/8th mile though.

    IDRC seems to think that Dragway42 would be the best option too but it would have to be a different weekend as they have something already scheduled but I believe they are still in talks with them to try to work something out. The next best option would probably be down in Hebron at NTR. But who knows if that is feasible.
     

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  20. rEclipserGST

    rEclipserGST Supporting Member

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    I don't attend IFO. I attend DSM Shootout.

    Hurt my feelings when they didn't do AutoX the year I planned to.

    We in columbus will be driving wherever need be.
     

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  21. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    National Trail could work, its kind of a dump but it could work, hard to believe that Force used to race at that place, it must have been under different ownership back then or something or the standards just weren't what we expect now after being at Norwalk, Quaker City is now up and running also and has a much nicer track than National Trail and getting in and out wouldn't take an hour and a half like it does for IFO at National Trail. We will be at 42 for IFO later in the month, haven't been there in a few years now, I hope its better than the dust bowl that it used to be.
     

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  22. Jk's97DSM

    Jk's97DSM Proven Member

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    Even if the event becomes open, allowing other makes to attend which it has already, it will still be THE EVENT for 4G63 based cars. It will always be The DSM Shootout. There will never be more of a sense of car community and love for any platforms than this event.
     

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  23. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

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    What you say might hold true for a lot of people in the DSM world, but things always have a way of changing over time, and sentiment can change too. The new wave of DSMers who come into the community won't necessarily have the same connection with the event as the past community members did, and the future of the event will rest largely in the hands of the new DSM owners going forward.

    To give you a different example - I've always felt that this forum represented some of the best aspects of the DSM community. We have had most of the well known people in the DSM world post here over the past 19 years, helping others out and sharing what they're working on. We've built up a huge database of useful information and still have a great community to this day that participates regularly. There have been other DSM forums out there over the years but they're all pretty much dead and/or gone now. And a large contingent of the DSM community holds this site in high regard, much the way some do the Shootout. Yet, the new wave of DSMers don't always participate in forums like this like the majority did in the past. Some don't even know how to post a thread. Things change. What you and I feel is important, what we feel should be preserved and developed, isn't always important to the next generation. C'est la vie.

    I'm happy to see the Shootout living on, even if it's different now. But I also hope to see a new DSM/4G63-only event put on that might give the community another opportunity to celebrate the platform. I think that would be cool.
     

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  24. Jk's97DSM

    Jk's97DSM Proven Member

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    The thing that will kill the platform is the parts market. While still producing some parts it will get harder and harder to get anything here soon enough. The reason the Honda community is huge is because of the parts availability and options. Almost everything you could imagine. The chassis‘ are still plentiful and they must have produced that many K series to support at least that engines aftermarket.
     

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  25. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

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    Lack of parts is one of the most frustrating things about owning a DSM, that's for sure. And it's only going to get worse.
     

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