2.3l better than 2.4l?

[slow4g6392tsi]

Why wouldnt you need oil squirters?

Forged pistons can generally handle the extra heat.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Hey is this 2005?

Who the hell says you can't rev a 2.3?

HAHA.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Why wouldnt you need oil squirters?

I'm not running oil jets in my 2g 7-bolt.
I am having the piston crowns ceramic thermal barrier coated and the underside of the pistons oil shed coated.
This is kind of an experiment.
I'm building a longrod 2.0L w/Manley 88mm stroke crankshaft, Manley .020 over longrod pistons and 156mm Pauter Rods.
This will be a road racing set-up dishing out maximum abuse on these coated pistons.
Ultimately this is an experiment for my future longrod 2.4L.

 

[delta448]

Technically, long rod motors are never strokers to begin with. It is simply a long rod motor. Whoever refers to them as such really does not understand the fundamentals.

Which was exactly my point.

 

[Kickerbeast]

Local guy has blown up 2 built 2.4s. Both cracked down the same cylinder wall. Now, he was pushing 500+ hp at the time. After talks with some very knowledgeable people, the conclusion is that the thinner walls can't withstand the pressure from the piston warping under heavy load. This time he is using a partially filled block with custom sleeves. I would suggest that if you are looking into make a big hp 2.4 that you look into some thicker custom sleeves as part of it.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Check the EvoM.net forums.
John Bradley, aka Aaron is pushing a LR2.4L to almost 800whp.

Have your cylinder blocks sonic tested before building them.
Never go over 87mm bores.

 

[Kickerbeast]

Do you know what kind of pistons he is running? I haven't signed up over there. The reason I am asking is both of these blocks cracked where you wouldn't expect any major load, right in line with the wrist pin. After talking to some people that design pistons, they informed us that on the combustions stroke the pressure to keep the piston in line with the bore is put directely on the skirt. This pressure makes the piston oval, pushing on the sides of the cylinder walls. I'm curious if the design on his piston keeps it from ovaling as much.

 

[Strm Trpr]

I'm 99.9% sure he's using Custom LR2.4L JE Pistons.
The crack isn't a crack, it's more of a tear.
Think about it.
The piston skirt is thrusting into the cylinder wall making the cylinder wall oval.
This force is putting compressive stresses where the skirt and wall meet, but what happens in the area of the wrist pin, the cylinder wall is in a tensile load wanting to tear apart.
Hence the tear, not a crack.

There isn't any obvious signs of scuffing or any signs of any piston to wall contact where the crack is, is there?
That's because the cylinder tore, not cracked... but I could be wrong.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Do you know what kind of pistons he is running? I haven't signed up over there. The reason I am asking is both of these blocks cracked where you wouldn't expect any major load, right in line with the wrist pin. After talking to some people that design pistons, they informed us that on the combustions stroke the pressure to keep the piston in line with the bore is put directely on the skirt. This pressure makes the piston oval, pushing on the sides of the cylinder walls. I'm curious if the design on his piston keeps it from ovaling as much.

Ive never heard of anyone doing that before now. Kinda scares me hearing that after i just finished my std rod 2.4

 

[Turbo Monk3y]

Local guy has blown up 2 built 2.4s. Both cracked down the same cylinder wall. Now, he was pushing 500+ hp at the time. After talks with some very knowledgeable people, the conclusion is that the thinner walls can't withstand the pressure from the piston warping under heavy load. This time he is using a partially filled block with custom sleeves. I would suggest that if you are looking into make a big hp 2.4 that you look into some thicker custom sleeves as part of it.

Guess I'm doing it wrong
< 87mm bore, 150mm rods, off the shelf wisecos that crack, way over 500hp.

Ive never heard of anyone doing that before now. Kinda scares me hearing that after i just finished my std rod 2.4

I wouldn't be worried. Remember 3 years ago when people were going crazy about the 5 cases of 2.4L 100mm cranks cracking and shearing off at the #4 rod journal. Both the Hyundai and Mitsu stamped 64 cranks were in the spot light and both cracked just as equal. That was all because of improper engine building and not using a good engine damper pulley. Now just because some guy knows of some other guy thats a local that can't get over 500 on a 2.4L doesn't mean anything other than he's doing it wrong. More people that know what they are doing have these engines last for just as long as built 2.0Ls

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

I wouldn't be worried. Remember 3 years ago when people were going crazy about the 5 cases of 2.4L 100mm cranks cracking and shearing off at the #4 rod journal. Both the Hyundai and Mitsu stamped 64 cranks were in the spot light and both cracked just as equal. That was all because of improper engine building and not using a good engine damper pulley. Now just because some guy knows of some other guy thats a local that can't get over 500 on a 2.4L doesn't mean anything other than he's doing it wrong. More people that know what they are doing have these engines last for just as long as built 2.0Ls

Good to hear. I spent way too much money for it to break after a season. I even opted for the full balancing at the machine shop, kiggly girdle and fluidamper.

 

[FastTSiAWD]

Yeah, Need2boost runs a 2.3 and is pushing around 700awhp with no problems. I believe he has about 4k on that motor. I'm doing a 2.3/2.4 build now and I have no worries at all. I'm looking to put down at least 850awhp

MAPperformance also has there FDSM as a 2.4L and they put down over 1000awhp and it's running strong

I agree, it's all in the build and the guy doing the work. This stuff is an art, and if you don't have someone that takes pride in each build they do; but someone who cuts corners, or doesn't take the time to do it right, you'll have problems

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Yeah, Need2boost runs a 2.3 and is pushing around 700awhp with no problems. I believe he has about 4k on that motor. I'm doing a 2.3/2.4 build now and I have no worries at all. I'm looking to put down at least 850awhp

MAPperformance also has there FDSM as a 2.4L and they put down over 1000awhp and it's running strong

I agree, it's all in the build and the guy doing the work. This stuff is an art, and if you don't have someone that takes pride in each build they do; but someone who cuts corners, or doesn't take the time to do it right, you'll have problems

I had one of the best in the state of ohio. I think im good there.

 

[Kickerbeast]

The question of this thread was are 2.3s better than 2.4s. In my opinion yes. You have 1.5 mm less of a cylinder bore giving you more meat to work with and they have been proven again and again. As far as my friend, I can't speak to what the block went through before he got it. I also can't say if an aftermarket 2.4 has upgrade sleeves or anything to ensure they are strong enough. I only know what I have personally seen and that is 2 blocks that have cracked (I do agree with the torn theory above). I don't have any questions about his building abilities. He has many other blocks under his belt that have been running strong. I'm not saying the 2.4 can't be made strong enough to withstand it, but for the money, I would just build a 2.3. You can do that with you existing 2.0 block and you won't have to find another engine.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

I found a 20k mile g4cs. Thats why i built it. The motor was mint. Cleanest motor ive seen inside. Crank was PERFECT and the bores were as well. Thats why i chose the 2.4 over the 2.3

 

[jshuman]

This is why I went the long rod 2.4l route. The 1.56 rod ratio should help to reduce the stress on the walls.

 

[TunaTalon]

That was certainly in the right direction to lower side wall forces. I made an attempt to calculate side wall friction for stroked 4G63s vs stock and found that the lower rod ratio had much higher side loads.

From Page 17 of http://www.kidzuku.com/StrokeOrNot.pdf:

Figure 14 shows clearly one major reason why the 2.1L destroked version revs better
than the 2.3L stroker. At 8000 RPM the stroker has the same SLF as the stock 2.0L at
9000 RPM or the 2.1L at 9500 RPM.

SLF in the quote is Side Loading Friction.

 

[Kickerbeast]

The biggest factor to any engine build is what do you want from the engine. Are you DDing it? It is a Drag only car? These are the first questions you need to ask yourself in anything you do. If you want the RPMs, then you can do a destroked or stick with the stock 2.0. Me I like the idea of building more torque and want something that will feel better as a DD. I looked at 2.4s but decided against it because I didn't know what my end HP goals will be. Those always tend to go up. I DD mine car and I like the feel of the 2.3 over the 2.0. I don't need the RPMs, I have no reason to wind the thing to 10K. Hell I don't normally hit much past 4K on normal driving, so the stoker is perfect for me. The 2.4 would probably work just fine, but I didn't want to run into anything odd putting it into the car, so the 2.0 block was the best fit. Although, I've heard the Kiggly has a 2.3 that he runs to just shy of 10K...so... Anyway, the point is you need to evalutate your driving/vehicle needs before you just jump into something. From there you can find the solutions that best meet your needs. I would say that each engine has a niche that it meets.

 

[dsmusmc]

Of all the people on this forum to talk to about a 2.3 would be Tim Zimmerman (twicks69). Im surprised he hasn't commented on this thread. I think I read somewhere Kiggly prefers the 2.3 over the 2.4 and talking to Jack from Jacks trans that's all he runs is a 2.4. I guess its all personnel preferences or what block/crank combo you can get ahold of.

I went with a 2.2 Stroker because of better rod ratio and a wider RPM band. Draw back with that is the price.

 

[TunaTalon]

Kickerbeast has the right answer for which is better:

Better for who?
Better for what?

The 2.3 stroker was better for me because it Kept It Simple Stupid. It used my existing known good block with no issues fitting a head or timing belt.

The car is intended for daily street driving with emphasis on total power under the torque curve, not maximum HP at a sharp peak.

Not to mention that after 183,000 trouble free miles I was kinda fond of that hunk of iron.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Kickerbeast]

Your reason for a 2.3 is the same reason I'm building a 2.3. Simplicity and ease of build. Others have their reason for building other motors. I wanted something that would produce nice street torque and not max hp. I'm a torque kinda guy. This thread should have included a voting button. I vote for 2.3.

 

[Turbo Monk3y]

I built my 2.4L because of a few reasons.

First I will have to agree with Jack from Jacks Transmissions. Every 2.3L I've seen torn apart either with 1000 miles or 20K on it. always has wear on skirts of the pistons and on the block from the pistons trying to Oval out because of the 1.50 rod ratio.
Now with the few 2.4L I have taken apart, as also agreed by Jack, there is little to no side wall or piston skirt abrasion. I came to the conclusion that although both engines have a 1.50 rod ratio, the Longer piston design of the 2.4L does less rocking back and fourth than the shorter Stroker piston of the 2.3L.

So the 2.4L causes less wear for a daily driver, Also I did not want the shorter Stroker piston in a car that was going to see street duty. Why you ask? Because the wrist pin location on the stroker piston is right in the location where the bottom oil ring land goes, which over a 3000 mile oil change interval will cause more oil to be eaten up rather than the 2.4L piston which has the wrist pin location below the bottom oil ring area. It has been in my experience with engines that if you can get a piston with a wrist pin not interfering in any oil rings do so.

Also I like how the mains on the 2.4L block are a lot beefier than the 4g63. Their base actually allows for full seating rather than the 4g63 which hang over about a couple mm on each side. If you are worried that the mains are not bridged, just buy the kiggly girdle.

And lastly I did not want to deal with oil squirters or blocking them or tapping them or just having anything to do with them. Thats just one more thing that can come loose inside the engine to take out other components.

 

[twoTSis]

I feel this is an appropriate area to ask a quick stroker question with so many knowledgable people commenting on this thread...

Has anyone ever tried Brian Crower stroker kits? What does someone WHO HAS/KNOWS SOMEONE WHO HAS used them think about them? Any well known problems with them?

These are what I'm talking about:

BrianCrower.com | RunBC.com // Mitsubishi // 4G63

 

[RadDsm]

Which one are you looking at, 2.4 or 2.5 or 2.6?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

BC 2.6 Stroker Engine - evolutionm.net
2.6 info
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-en.../327837-inside-brian-crower-2-6l-stroker.html