2.3 vs 2.0 Drivability

[brthmltn]

I'm looking to make a very drivable street car making 350 to 400 hp. After reading and reading I would like to know from someone who has gone both ways. After owning my srt4 I love the 2.4 size. My fight is a evo3 16g is about all I would ever need. I know its a little small for a 2.3 but as far as power and turbo lag I feel it would be a good combo. Any opinions?

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

IMO, I'd look into something larger then an Evo16g if you end up going with a 2.3L... I have experienced the limitations of the Mitsu turbine housing on both my old 2.3L (TD06H 20G powered) & my current 2.4L (FP Green powered) setup: The small A/R of the Mitsu housings limit exhaust flow in the upper RPMs, especially when used with a stroker or 2.4L. -Remember, if you want 'insta-spool' then you're sacrificing top end flow.

 

[2gGSX]

Having had both, here are my thoughts--

The 2.3 has a definite advantage in off-boost driveability. Driving the same roads and going up the same hills with this motor is definitely easier than with the old 2.0. However, when you combo that with the 16g you lose all "off-boost" driveability, because you will basically never *not* be in boost

My advice would be to go with a 20g if the hard hit is what you're looking for, or some sort of a 50 trim if you just want the better top end.

 

[turbosax2]

Hehe, you ever driven a 2.4 with a T25? That shit is fun

 

[BoredDSM]

IMO a 2.3 would be a little much for just 350-400hp. Can be done with just a 2.0 and an evo 16g. If you got a 2.3 you would need a larger turbo so thus your most likely making more than 350-400hp and possibly not meeting your streetable standards.

 

[2gGSX]

IMO a 2.3 would be a little much for just 350-400hp. Can be done with just a 2.0 and an evo 16g. If you got a 2.3 you would need a larger turbo so thus your most likely making more than 350-400hp and possibly not meeting your streetable standards.

Displacement is not the primary criteria for deciding maximum horsepower. It is however a good way to increase streetability by both decreasing spool, and providing better off-boost driveability.

 

[TunaTalon]

My Talon is set up as a street car with all compromises made in favor of low end/ mid range torque. I have a 2.3L stroker with 8.8:1 compression ratio and an E3 16G Turbo.

I understand that the 16G does not max out the engine; that was not my goal.

My 1991 and 1998 2.0L Talons were fun to drive hard but a PITA in town. I’m an olde tooner that grew up driving V8’s and the 2.0L talons were just not up to my expectations at low RPM. Enter the stroker project.

Along with the high stall torque converter the Talon is now like a new car on the street. It pulls off of a traffic light like a V8 and still has twice the stock HP on the top end; fun low, fun mid range, and still a rush on the top end.

Oh and about turbo lag; Ah yes I remember it well.

For more than you really want to know about strokers and piston dynamics please see http://www.kidzuku.com/StrokeOrNot.pdf

 

[Rob10_99]

I remember an article like that on a website from early 2000's, good stuff!

 

[brthmltn]

I don't plan on maxing the setup out but more a good low end torque and very little lag. I really dont care for a 400 even number on the dyno just around there. I think tunatalon is more the person im looking to talk to. It would be in a manual car so not really the same but do you feel performance for drivability is good. I dont want to rev the piss out of it to get it going just driving it. I feel this setup would really compare to the srt4 just all wheel drive. Do you agree?

 

[TunaTalon]

Yes that's pretty much the important conclusions of my StrokeOrNot document:

After all of the math and charts, go figure, the conventional wisdom still holds up.

The 4G63 stroker is more suited for street use with better low end/mid range torque. The 2.0L version will still rev higher and if pushed hard, can make as much power.

Although the stroker motor may not make more power with the same big turbo as a 2.0L,it will spool the big turbo up faster, making a high horsepower daily drive more bearable.

Camshafts will not perform the same on strokers as 2.0L engines. Strokers will tolerate more aggressive cams than the 2.0L with fewer low end negative effects.

Strokers are (even) more sensitive to the weight of the reciprocating parts than 2.0l engines. Piston and rod selection should take the acceleration rates into account.

Strokers are more sensitive to balance shaft removal and hard motor mounts than the 2.0L engine. A stroker with balance shafts removed, solid motor mounts, and full weight rods and pistons should shake the mirrors.

The original high flowing head design of the 4G63 makes the stroker version still useful at stock rev limits.

The high stall torque converter is not necessary cough, unless you are an obsessive compulsive cough, tooner.

 

[No_Skillz]

Dude, like 2.0, and 30mpg, with my version of power on demand: 50 trim. It's a freakin dream.

 

[mach4g63t]

Yes that’s pretty much the important conclusions of my StrokeOrNot document:



The high stall torque converter is not necessary cough, unless you are an obsessive compulsive cough, tooner.

This guys is the dude to talk to about strokers. What cracks me up, is he is such a DSM Know-it-All but he's from Dittmer, MO. Talk about a sh!t stain on the face of the earth. Half the roads out there are barely paved or pothole free.

I would have to agree with the bigger turbo option. If you really wanted to be able to punch that 400 mark with the 2.3, step it up to a 50 trim, at least. Don't be afraid of the lag. Strokers are the cure all for mid-size turbo lag. That same 50 trim will probably spool equivalent to a 16g on a 2.0 setup, maybe faster with proper tuning. And all the while, you can keep low-end driving while boosting to a minimum while scooting through town (saving gas, mind you!). Yet you will still have that "snap" from a fully spooled turbo by 3800 rpms, plus you'll love the breathing power of that turbo on the top end compared to a hot-winded 16g.

Ultimately, it's your choice and your money, but I would recommend a slightlty bigger turbo from the go. If not, try out the 16g and then go bigger if it doesn't suit your needs. Either way, Strokers are the streetgoers motor.

 

[TunaTalon]

Hey, hey, the road by my house was paved four or five tears ago. Why I can even get all the way to Grubville without driving on dirt. Not that there's anything wrong with driving on dirt.

Back on topic:
Turbo selection should follow goals. For a street driven car there's little reason to get a turbo that is capable of more horsepower than you want. A bigger turbo will bring more lag to the game. More lag is a good trade off for more power, but if you don't get more power then it's just more money and more aggravation.

Personally I went with the smallest turbo that could make my 320AWHP goal. The Talon is now running with minimum boost (about 17 PSI) and it makes a great street car. But then I'm an olde phart and your mileage may vary.