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1G Slave mounting bolts

bgold87

Probationary Member
24
4
Nov 20, 2019
Louisville, Kentucky
Whats up all. New to DSMs and currently bringing a 92 awd Talon back from the grave. Anyone know where I can find or know what size the slave cylinder mounting bolts are?
 

XC92

Proven Member
670
91
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Also, somewhere on this site, I think one of the Q&A's or how-to guides, there's a link to the complete Mitsubishi parts catalog. I've been restoring my own '92 Talon and it's been invaluable along with the FSM, which if you don't have you MUST download too.

Since Eagle and Chrysler no longer exist and Jeep probably won't have most parts, you have to go through Mitsubishi dealers to get many parts, and they go either by VIN, but only for Eclipses, not Talons (or Lasers) or the actual part #, and you need the catalog for that.

Also realize that some parts are no longer made and hard to find, so don't throw anything out until you've found a replacement source. You may have to restore some parts, and find or even fabricate proper substitutes in some cases.

So, what needs to be done on your Talon to bring it back to life? The list of things I've had to do and have yet to do is too long to list here. The main ones were/are rebuilding all 4 calipers, replacing the clutch, replacing bushings, ball joints and tie rods, tons of cleaning, derusting and painting (of parts, not the body--yet), replacing all fluids, new belts (including timing, yet to be done), new struts and mounts, and a major tuneup. It's been over 4 months so far and likely to take at least another month, but with cold weather arriving some might have to wait till spring.

Good luck!
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
474
173
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
A new slave cylinder is rather straightforward, as things on these cars go. I believe yours will be identical to my 90gsx awd. Put the front end on jack stand for access. Use a line wrench on the hydraulic fitting. I found the most challenging part is the bleeder screw, which has poor access when the slave is mounted. A 1/4” drive deep socket works fine, but then you can’t get a drain hose over then end to collect the bled fluid. I tried an offset box wrench, but it was a 45-deg. style, which is not deep enough. I’m probably going to purchase a speed bleeder screw for mine, which has a mini check valve within, making the loosen/tighten/repeat steps of bleeding irrelevant. Loosen once, push the clutch several times, tighten once. There are more tech posts about doing this for tips. Also your clutch shoud be adjusted. Jack’s Transmiissions has an excellent dsm-specific video explaing the theory and process. Good luck.
 

bgold87

Probationary Member
24
4
Nov 20, 2019
Louisville, Kentucky
Also, somewhere on this site, I think one of the Q&A's or how-to guides, there's a link to the complete Mitsubishi parts catalog. I've been restoring my own '92 Talon and it's been invaluable along with the FSM, which if you don't have you MUST download too.

Since Eagle and Chrysler no longer exist and Jeep probably won't have most parts, you have to go through Mitsubishi dealers to get many parts, and they go either by VIN, but only for Eclipses, not Talons (or Lasers) or the actual part #, and you need the catalog for that.

Also realize that some parts are no longer made and hard to find, so don't throw anything out until you've found a replacement source. You may have to restore some parts, and find or even fabricate proper substitutes in some cases.

So, what needs to be done on your Talon to bring it back to life? The list of things I've had to do and have yet to do is too long to list here. The main ones were/are rebuilding all 4 calipers, replacing the clutch, replacing bushings, ball joints and tie rods, tons of cleaning, derusting and painting (of parts, not the body--yet), replacing all fluids, new belts (including timing, yet to be done), new struts and mounts, and a major tuneup. It's been over 4 months so far and likely to take at least another month, but with cold weather arriving some might have to wait till spring.

Good luck!

Yours sounds a lot like what I'm dealing with. It was in someone's garage and is bone stock but it's been sitting for YEARS. I'm new to DSM, but I've always worked on all my own cars, boats, bikes etc. I've had a fetish for the 1gs since I was 10 and needed a winter project so this worked out!

So I've only had it a week, so I'm still in the cataloguing stage of what needs done. Biggest thing right now is you can BARELY push the the car and when I got the front wheels up last night they are seized. So I have to see if I'm dealing with brake issue, but my guess as long as this car has been sitting the transfer case needs rebuilt. My first step tho is to see if the motor spins by hand and put my focus on trying to get it running before worrying about drivetrain. Once it get it running and rolling then start going back through and replacing/rebuilding everything that needs freshened up.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
474
173
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
Funny, but when I started lurking on dsmtuners, I wasn’t sure it aligned with my goals; stock resto. Lots of posts about 500 whp and 25psi boost. I mean that’s all cool, but I was a bit intimidated to ask about something mundane like changing spark plugs. Turns out my fears were untrue, as all the folks are really helpful, and respect whatever needs done on these cars. But I am now noticing an uptick in new joiners a lot like myself, wanting to get a tired dsm back to its old self. I expect this same trend will result in rising values for these vehicles, too, as the dsm is a kind of a sweet spot in automotive tech. Port EFI, AWD, 4x disc brakes, but no computers screens or traction control. Fairly simple, if a bit crammed in. Fun Stuff!
 

XC92

Proven Member
670
91
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Before I joined I was actually going to join DSMTalk instead since it seemed geared more towards everyday drivers like you and me, but it got so little traffic that I worried that my questions would rarely get answered, and then only after a long delay.

So I took a chance on being seen as someone who didn't really belong here, and, like you, was immediately disabused of this worry. Folks here know and love their DSMs (and related cars) and don't think it's beneath them to respond to newbie-ish questions, even if they just finished tuning their 17th DSM to 600HP so they can race it on the track.

It's just a matter of following the same basic rules as on any legit forum. Be respectful, do your homework, don't troll, don't spam, don't ask questions you can answer yourself, help others when you can, keep topics to site-appropriate ones, etc.

As for the trend you see, I'm too new here to be able to tell, but it makes sense, given how old these cars are. Perhaps it's also the pandemic, giving many people a lot of free time to pursue long-delayed wish list items or develop new interests.

For me it was a matter of an elderly neighbor who graciously allowed me to park my car in her driveway after the clutch gave out while I figured out what to do with it, recently taking ill in a way that made me think it was her time, which it sadly turned out to be. I knew that if she passed her inheritors would likely sell the property and want my car out of there, so I had to get moving.

It was the right call as the car needs to be out within days (they keep pushing the date but I think that this time it's for real), and I just finished work on it this week. There's actually still a lot left to be done, but nothing that's keeping it from passing inspection and being legally driven and parked on the street, which is where I'll complete the work.

But that can wait a while. I've been working constantly on it since mid-July and I'm pooped. :p

Yours sounds a lot like what I'm dealing with. It was in someone's garage and is bone stock but it's been sitting for YEARS. I'm new to DSM, but I've always worked on all my own cars, boats, bikes etc. I've had a fetish for the 1gs since I was 10 and needed a winter project so this worked out!

So I've only had it a week, so I'm still in the cataloguing stage of what needs done. Biggest thing right now is you can BARELY push the the car and when I got the front wheels up last night they are seized. So I have to see if I'm dealing with brake issue, but my guess as long as this car has been sitting the transfer case needs rebuilt. My first step tho is to see if the motor spins by hand and put my focus on trying to get it running before worrying about drivetrain. Once it get it running and rolling then start going back through and replacing/rebuilding everything that needs freshened up.

Sounds like the brakes are seized due to sitting around for years. Same thing happened to me. It was a major PITA to restore them, but I went all-out. After unseizing them (which was especially hard on the fronts and required brake hydraulics power to push the pistons out), I took everything apart, cleaned and derusted everything, painted the calipers, and rebuilt them, using caliper rebuild kits (and some excellent guides on this site--the rears are a bit tricky and if you need help feel free to let me know, I've got some tips). Way more work than I bargained for, but now I have 4 brakes that are literally as good as new. Still have to get new pads and rotors.

As for the t-case, first see if it works before taking it apart. If there was lube in there it's likely ok. If not then it may have seized as well. Mine was fine. I just replaced the oil and will eventually replace both seals. Same for the rear diff. You'll also probably want to take out the transmission to see what condition the clutch and flywheel are in, and clean out the bell housing and all the clutch parts, maybe replace some, and apply fresh lube.

Also check all the ball joints, tie rods, bushings, etc., replace all fluids and filters, PCV, plugs, etc. And definitely turn the engine over manually first--after squirting some oil into the plug holes. Oh, and take a look at the timing belt by removing the upper cover. If it's in sad shape, you do NOT want to run the engine or you risk destroying the engine. You probably should replace it anyway, but the old one might be good for a little while.

I went crazy and did way more than the car needed, but am glad I did. Lots of rust and grime under the car that I just had to remove and paint over. Now it looks almost new. Not "necessary", but still feels right. Also replaced bushings, ball joints, tie rods, etc. It's funny how a repair job turns into a restoration job. Kind of sneaks up on you but hey if you're gonna do it, do it right.

Best of luck!
 
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We're on Boost

Proven Member
1,208
143
Aug 25, 2007
Seattle area, Washington
I found the most challenging part is the bleeder screw, which has poor access when the slave is mounted. A 1/4” drive deep socket works fine, but then you can’t get a drain hose over then end to collect the bled fluid. I tried an offset box wrench, but it was a 45-deg. style, which is not deep enough.

Yeah, when I finally found a box end wrench that fit and worked for this, I took a picture of it to remind me what wrench I used! LOL. The box end has a 15 degree angle. It's a 10mm stubby combo.

Also, you can see my lower attach bolt there. It is a JIS flange head bolt rather than the plain hex head type that you would get from Mitsubishi. JIS flange head metric bolts are pretty easy to buy generic style like this from places like Bolt Depot.
JIS zinc plated class 10.9 is almost always what you want. So I have a good collection of those on hand in my spare bedroom "warehouse". But in some places there isn't enough room for the flange, so it gets a little more problematic if the actual Mitsubishi bolt is no longer available.

10mm combo wrench on the bleeder screw.jpg
 
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XC92

Proven Member
670
91
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Is the actual clutch fluid line hose not yet connected in this photo, or is there some sort of Y-connector thing going on there? And yes, poor design with the bleeder, although perhaps it's possible to buy an aftermarket one that's longer with the hex part clear of the line bolt.

Also, why no fork boot? Given the location of the opening, wouldn't this allow road dirt to enter the bell housing? But, thanks for the useful info for future reference.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
474
173
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
Hmmm, yes same question; I don't see the hydraulic line in the photo, so how would bleeding be possible? I’m not heading out into my 20F garage right now to investigate, but I feel like if there had been room like this photo shows, I would have just cut a regular combo wrench in half to the same effect. Not that I would pass up a good reason to go buy a whole set of stubbies, though I did buy one 10x12 deep 45-deg ofsett box wrench (didn’t help). In the end, I compromised on using a socket for greater torque required for initial loosening and final tightening, and used the open end of a 10mm combo, but held on the flats at a steep angle for the repeated bleeding steps. I also used a vacuum setup to pull the fluid through while under the car, since I was solo.
I also agree with the taller screw idea, and when looking into this, even found some remote-bleeder setups that are used on other types of cars. I’m still leaning toward a speed bleeder as the best solution. I think my system is mostly bled by now, but worth a few more tries, including the “push on the slave rod” tip found in one of the tech tips.
 

XC92

Proven Member
670
91
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
RTM sells individual speed bleeders, but their shipping can be pricey since it's from Canada. But there are hard to find parts that they tend to have, like drain and fill plug gaskets and such, and their prices are pretty good. I replaced all 4 M7 bleeders on my calipers with speed ones when I rebuilt them, but kept the stock M10 one on my slave. I'll probably get a speed one for it too, along with a rebuild kit.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
474
173
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
Funny, all my calipers have M10, just like the slave but shorter. I’m swapping up to the twin-piston front setup, and one rebuilt caliper has an obviously smaller bleed screw (M7 I suspect).
 

XC92

Proven Member
670
91
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
All my calipers are stock mid-'92 Talon TSi AWD manuals, and although it's been a few months I'm pretty sure the bleeders are all M7's. In fact I have the Dorman product card right here on my desk and I confirmed it at Advance Auto, where I bought it:

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...quick-bleeders-m7-1.0-x-32mm-12708/89025013-P

Incidentally, although I had no understanding of it at the time, turns out that I bought my Talon at a very fortunate time. The engine firewall label says it was made in May 1992, which is technically a month after they supposedly switched to the 7 bolt crank, but mine's a 6 bolt, which I confirmed when I replaced the clutch and removed the flywheel. It may well be one of the last 6 bolts made.

I actually bought it in late July of that year (for a great price, just over $20k after a $1500 rebate and including tax and handling, and it actually only cost me $12k because I applied an $8k or so insurance settlement I got from a total loss on my previous car caused by design flaw-related mechanical issues), so it probably sat on the lot for a while and the dealer was looking to get rid of it to make way for the coming '93 models, which probably explains the great price. Had I bought a slightly more recent '92, it likely would have been a 7 bolt and it might not have lasted till now.

Anyway, speed bleeders are so much nicer as I don't have to find someone to help me. It's till a messy and annoying process, but they make it so much easier.
 

We're on Boost

Proven Member
1,208
143
Aug 25, 2007
Seattle area, Washington
Is the actual clutch fluid line hose not yet connected in this photo, or is there some sort of Y-connector thing going on there? And yes, poor design with the bleeder, although perhaps it's possible to buy an aftermarket one that's longer with the hex part clear of the line bolt.

Also, why no fork boot? Given the location of the opening, wouldn't this allow road dirt to enter the bell housing? But, thanks for the useful info for future reference.


Yes the hydraulic line is there. It is almost perfectly hidden by that dirty old wire jacket that goes to my wideband. They are zip tied together. The only part of the hydraulic line you can see is, you can see 2 of the wrench flats on the fitting that is on the end of the line. It is a brand new stock OEM hard line (steel with some kind of coating on it) Mitsu part number MD724458.
That short hard line is a story in itself. I ordered it from mitsubishiparts.com and Larry there emailed me back saying it would have to come from Japan, two weeks. Then a couple days later he emailed again saying it was backordered in Japan and expect it to take at least 70-80 business days. I let the order ride because I figured, better slow than never. As it turned out, I got it in only 3 weeks. That was all in Feb-March of 2020.
https://www.mitsubishiparts.com/oem-parts/mitsubishi-hydraulic-lines-md724458

I also ordered the short rubber flex hose from the same place, but that was in stock in the USA.
MR151524
https://www.mitsubishiparts.com/oem-parts/mitsubishi-hydraulic-lines-mr151524

After all that I could understand better why there is a single line made aftermarket that can replace all 3 of the clutch lines, but to me it doesn't look right for the 1g. So I didn't buy one of those. Maybe somebody could add some info about that?

On my car, the short rubber line and the short hard line were the only ones that looked old.
The long hard line that goes from the master cylinder looked real good, almost new, so I left that there. All that line needed was a flush out with clean fluid.

There is a Dorman part available for the short rubber hose, and I wound up with a couple of those by the time I was done with this. I didn't use them but they look good actually. They feel hard as a rock almost, just like the OEM one, so I don't think they would give you a spongy pedal.

I don't have any unusual fitting where the hydraulic line goes into the slave. The slave is a brand new OEM slave from STM and it comes already assembled with that banjo part that has a banjo bolt through it, attaching it to the slave. There is a restrictor in there that some people take out.

I had a little trouble with the steel wave spring clips that sort of lock in each end of the rubber hose. (2 of them)
I kind of mangled one of them and would like to replace it if I could find new ones.
Anybody know if those are available someplace?

Here's an STM picture that shows the banjo fitting pretty well, on the 1g OEM slave. This is exactly how a new OEM slave comes for the 1g AWD.

MD733623-oem-mitsubishi-slave-cylinder-1g-dsm-awd-gsx2_1024x1024 - STM.jpg
 
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XC92

Proven Member
670
91
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
I think I now know more about hard and soft clutch lines than I ever expected to know! I pretty much left that whole assembly as is, other than detaching the hard line, cleaning the slave and then replacing and bleeding the fluid, which was pretty brown and nasty. If the clutch disengages and reengages when it's supposed to, I'm good for now. I might revisit it next year.

Btw why did you decide to get a new slave? What was wrong with the old one? They're not cheap.
 
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We're on Boost

Proven Member
1,208
143
Aug 25, 2007
Seattle area, Washington
Ahh, no boot on the fork window.
Well, when I first put the new slave on, I had only about 100 miles on a new clutch fork boot MD718077 that had come with the new transmission from TMZ, and I could see a faint line on it that looked like a wear line or a pinch line, where the boot could be getting pinched between the fork and the edge of the fork window when the clutch pedal is down to the floor.
So that made me question the fork position in the window, and if it was running out of room in the outboard direction (away from the slave).
So I wanted to leave the boot off for a while to check that out. With another guy in the car pushing on the pedal, I could see that there was still plenty of space left there between the fork and the outbd edge of the window. Even though the boot is folded over there making it pretty thick, I don't think it was getting squished really. A little mystery maybe, that "pinch" line.
Anyway I decided to leave the boot off for a while.
I got some very careful measurements of my fork position in the "at rest" postion after that, which I had been wanting to do, and shot pics of that.
I never drive my car in the rain or even on a wet road. Also never on gravel unless I have to, like to turn around on a back road or something. So I'm not too worried about it and might just leave it that way. Probably wouldn't want to leave it that way on a "regular use" car.

Btw why did you decide to get a new slave? What was wrong with the old one? They're not cheap.

The old slave failed with total leakage out on the road, clutch pedal went to the floor, flatbed ride home.
I bought a new one basically because you can still buy new OEM slaves and masters now, but I don't know how long we will be able to do that. I want to buy these types of things brand new OEM as much as possible while they are still available.
Also, it is just a lot easier than rebuilding! I bought a new OEM master too, at the same time.
 
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XC92

Proven Member
670
91
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Ah, I'm too lazy to be this disciplined about where I drive my car. Plus no fun. I figure they're meant to be driven, which implies some abuse and adverse conditions, so better to be prepared than to limit my options. Wear it out is my view. Life's too short. But do it smartly of course.
 

XC92

Proven Member
670
91
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Well, selectively lazy then. I reach a point where I just can't do anymore, and punt. Eventually I get to it all. It's been nearly 4-1/2 months, so I'm kind of pooped. And yet so much remains to be done. 28 years of semi-neglect does a number on a car. Thankfully these were built to last.

Btw, with the car having sat undriven for over 5 years I obviously need to replace the engine oil. I'm thinking of putting in some cheap oil and filter to kind of clean out all the old gunked up junk in there and running it for 300-500 miles, perhaps with some cleaner like Seafoam or Mystery Oil, then dumping it, possibly dropping the oil tank to clean that out and reseal it (perhaps when I also drop the trans to replace the rear seal and also replace the valve cover seal), and only then put in high quality synthetic oil and OEM filter for the next 3000-5000 miles and half year. Does that sound like a decent plan and if so would any 10W-30 work, even cheap non-synthetic oil?
 

We're on Boost

Proven Member
1,208
143
Aug 25, 2007
Seattle area, Washington
Yes I think it's a good idea to run the first oil and filter for only about 300-500 miles. It would be like your "rinse" oil.
Probably any 10w-30 or 5w-30 would work. But engine oil is an endless subject you know. LOL

I think, given winter in New York, and the fact that you want your rinse oil to be very fluid even when it is not as hot as it would get in the summer, I would get a 5w rather than a 10w, of whatever oil you buy. 5w-30 was pretty universal with the OEMs before they went kind of crazy and started doing things like 0w-20.
"Synthetic blend" oils have gotten really cheap. The small % of synthetic that is in them gives much better properties at low temps.
For cleaning, high detergent comes to mind. When I search for high detergent motor oils I get mostly what the oil makers call High Mileage oils. I don't really know if that's what you would want or not, because they usually say they "recondition" your seals. But then what happens when you do that for a while and then switch back to whatever normal oil you are planning to use long term? "Reconditioning" sometimes means the oil swells the rubber a little more than "normal" oil would. So when you switch back to a less swelling type of oil, maybe you get some leaks you didn't have before?
I'd be tempted to use a 5w-30 version of whatever oil you plan to run long term.

One thing I've started doing just recently is buying oil in 5 gallon jugs instead of quarts. It's incredible how much cheaper it is that way, and you don't have the annoyance of ripping the foil off the top 5 times. LOL
Synthetic blend oil in a 5 gallon jug can be really cheap. I see "Valvoline High Mileage with MaxLife Technology SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Blend Motor Oil 5 QT" on Amazon for $17 and Prime right now. Holy cow.

You are going to change twice a year, so you could have a "winter oil" and a "summer oil". Or you could use the same oil year round, which is a lot easier.
But if you start right out with a 5 gallon jug of the same "make" of oil you are going to use long term, you could just mix whatever is left of it with your long term oil when you switch, even if it's a different viscosity, no problem.

I probably wouldn't add any additives to the first oil, but I don't know much about them. There might be something that would be ok. I think fresh motor oil is an amazing cleaner just as it is, personally.
 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
474
173
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
I decided to swap out my slave as a precaution, because my MC had failed, and the fluid was like gravy. You’re correct, their not cheap, though I really didn’t like the feeling of having the pedal go to the floor and stay their as I pulled up to a red light.
I did have a slave cylinder fail on me during a ski trip to Vermont when I was 17 (1987). It was in my Mother’s BMW 320i.
I believe Dorman makes those two-prong clutch line/ brake line spring retainers. Check rockauto. Might even have them at local parts stores. They really just keep the line held to the mounting bracket, so probably not an emergency. There’s not much force trying to shake the line away for that part (unlike, say the shift cables or the inner brake hoses, which also use those retainers; in different sizes).
I’m anxious to try that wrench method the next time I raise the front end.
 
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