1G N\T to Turbo Q's

[BlackMount]

okay so I read through some of the threads about making your N\T 4G63 to Turbo 4G63.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...r/5986-4g63-nt-engine-how-make-turbo-kit.html

This one has the most relevancy but by some of the things that were said in that thread, I really don't wanna go by anything said in that thread the whole some Talon's had 167hp off stock N\T 4G63, and did 152mph is what made me call BS cause 1: I've never heard of that shit in my life. 2: my old Turbo Laser on 15 psi pinned at 144mph (on a track of course) so how does 167hp go faster then 2XXhp in the same car?

Anyways

Few Q's

1: N\T Pistons, what can they handle? 9:1 CR, and to start out with when ever I turbo my Talon which is very soon here, I will be running Stock Turbo 1G parts, Maf, ECU, Knock Sensor, 14B, etc.... would N\T 4G w\ stock pistons and rods be safe on 14B Wastegate? or is that pushing it? I know on the Laser some of my Vacuum lines running to the Waste Gate got messed up when on Stock boost, and it lowered it to about 8 psi as oppose to 11.5 psi

If it can handle WG on a 14B just fine I'd love to just keep the stock pistons\CR

otherwise I'll just bite the bullet and keep my eyes open for a good set of 7 Bolt Turbo Pistons. I really don't wanna swap the motor to a Turbo 6 bolt yet because my motor is EXTREMELY healthy and I wanna run it till it walks or just blows to hell.

2: Knock Sensor install, heard a little about people installing it in the Intake Manifold, is this as effective as installing it in the block? cause I was told I'd have to drill through the block (haven't decided if I believe that or not) but if I do the intake manifold would be much easier to install.

and there are some more but I'm a little tired and can't remember what they are.

 

[Usatuff]

Back of block should already be drilled and tapped for a knock sensor

 

[bastarddsm]

Back of block should already be drilled and tapped for a knock sensor

Yes it is. but I believe its not in the exact right spot. I have not noticed any problems running it this way.

I also never had any problems running n/t pistons at wg pressure. I used to run 25+psi on a 16g, and that finally killed a couple pistons.

OP you should look at getting some used EVO 8 pistons and rods for a quick and easy swap.


Remember, if you want to turn it up you need to have full timing control.

 

[BlackMount]

25 psi of boost on 9:1 compression??? are you insane? what were you using for tuning? Meth injection or anything.

 

[bwhite]

I also ran 25psi on a b16g for about two years. Never had a problem until I switched to the hx35 and boom it went on a half year of 37 psi. Mine was a 90 6-bolt block. There is two spots on the 6-bolt n/t block ones on the lower left and another on the upper right. At the time I was running a maft and 93 pump gas, base timing retarded to hell and #8 NGK plugs.

 

[BlackMount]

I also ran 25psi on a b16g for about two years. Never had a problem until I switched to the hx35 and boom it went on a half year of 37 psi. Mine was a 90 6-bolt block. There is two spots on the 6-bolt n/t block ones on the lower left and another on the upper right. At the time I was running a maft and 93 pump gas, base timing retarded to hell and #8 NGK plugs.

I just wanna make sure you are talking about a n\t 4G63 with n\t pistons in it at 9:1 compression right?

 

[bwhite]

Bone stock N/T engine installed into a turbo car! Well - BS. That is correct.

 

[BlackMount]

I'll take your word for it 14B Waste gate on 9:1 it is, I'd imagine it would be slightly quicker then Regular Turbo 4G63 due to higher compression??

, but if i come back with a hole from a piston flying through my hood its your ass buddy! just playin.

 

[bwhite]

. Good luck. P.S. I dont think you can kill these motors with just a 14b HAHAHA.

 

[BlackMount]

well I know my Turbo laser (but that was 7.8:1 stock turbo compression) out lasted a 14B w\ about 230k on the stock block\internals. and that was 26 psi , snapped the exhaust wheel right off the shaft. took a full 30 seconds of that boost too before it blew up, I hualing ass it was awesome!

Edit: this is how I'll be running at first please chime in if you have any suggestions of how i can do things better\differently




Start out
Stock 4G N\T block 9:1 Compression.
2G Manifold
14B Turbo @ WasteGate
SMIC
1G BOV
Turbo ECU
Turbo MAF
Knock Sensor
450cc Injectors
Turbo Fuel Pump
Stock o2
Stock Downpipe
Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
Wideband
Boost Guage
ARP Head Studs

In the future

swaping out to 1G Turbo Pistons 7.8:1 Compression
Cams
E85
Upgraded fuel System
FMIC
Holset turbo, HX35 or bigger...or Big 16G or bigger, haven't decided yet.
Springs and Retainers
Boost Controller
Speed Density on Link
Prob Meth Injection

 

[bwhite]

No need for meth with E85. Forget b16g go evo316g newer design and more efficent.

 

[BlackMount]

I was under the impression the E316G and Big 16G were the same thing.

 

[Absit]

That would be wrong. The Big 16G is actually kinda crappy. The Evo3 came with a much better revised version.

 

[bwhite]

No they are not the same. The e316g has a billet wheel from what I gathered and flow considerably more air. Like ABSIT said its like a revision.

 

[BlackMount]

I was not aware. well ok ! whats CFM of each?

 

[bastarddsm]

Yep, mine was on E85. It absolutly loved it.

 

[MY1GDSM]

swaping out to 1G Turbo Pistons 7.8:1 Compression
Cams
E85
Upgraded fuel System
FMIC
Holset turbo, HX35 or bigger...or Big 16G or bigger, haven't decided yet.
Springs and Retainers
Boost Controller
Speed Density on Link
Prob Meth Injection

If you plan to go E85 down the road keep as much compression as you can if your on a budget maybe some evo pistons? Not really that much gains to be had on meth in addition to E85... at least for the money, it could go into something else that could net more HP. also your opening you self up a few more risks with any duel fueling system.

Also the n/t pistons can hold up but a tune/good running car is Key any good amount of knock an you could crack a ring land on them ALOT esaier... .

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Those non-turbo pistons are going to be the weak link in your build without a doubt. I recently (about 10 months ago) did the non-turbo to turbo swap and there is absolutly no way I would have trusted the non-turbo pistons. I got a set of Wiseco 8.3:1 pistons mounted on the 6-bolt rods with ARP hardware. Cheap insurance. If you are wanting higher compression, Wiseco also makes 9.0:1 forged pistons.

Also just to verify what others have said, the non-turbo block "should" already be drilled and tapped for the knock sensor.

Feel free to check out my blog to see my swap. If you have any other questions, let us know.

 

[BlackMount]

I'll be running Speed Density w\ Link as far as tuning goes regardless of what I do.

just having shit luck finding 7 bolt Turbo Rods and pistons for what I think is a reasonable price.


Cant decide tho, once the motor blows which I know its gonna at some point...6 Bolt Turbo swap oooorrr 6G72 Swap...leaning more towards 6G Swap, I like them 6 cylinders.

 

[JusMX141]

The e316g has a billet wheel from what I gathered and flow considerably more air.

Wrong.

The Evo III wheel is cast, but has a smaller "hub" area meaning the fins are slightly longer toward the center of the wheel than a standard Big 16G. The fins are also thinner, making the Evo III wheel lighter and more efficient. The inducer and exducer of both wheels are identical. The Evo III 16G also has a better-flowing turbine housing which is attributed to it's boost creep in conjunction with high-flowing exhaust systems.

Compare the shape of the compressor wheel between the two:

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[bwhite]

Well you heard it from the masta turbo guy. . He knows more then I do, no doubt.

 

[JusMX141]

Yikes- that pic of the Big 16G is a little blurry....didn't realize that until just now. Regardless, you should still get the idea that the Evo III wheel is indeed cast, and the "hub" area of the wheel is smaller allowing the fins to be longer and "grab" more air.

There are guys that probably wish the Evo III compressor was billet- although the $500 price tag would jump up another $300 or so just for the cost of the compressor. In all honesty, if anyone's in the market for an Evo III 16G with a billet compressor, look at the Blouch 20G-XT.