1G CAS on a 2g car?

[MountainDew]

My car isn't starting and I've tested everything that has been suggested to me. I think my CAS is dead. It's a 1995 TSI AWD.

I've read about using the 1G CAS but it's mainly for 6bolt swaps.

Can I use a 1G CAS on a 2G head? Would I just follow the wiring diagram to do it or whatever? Which 1G CAS would I need?

I really don't want to spend the money on a 95-96 sensor and take all the stupid stuff off again.. I had a hell of a time with the timing belt and I do not want to go through it again.

 

[Boomer420s]

if the car is not starting, did you try to pull the CAS off and rotate it 180* and reinstall, sometimes that will do the trick. You can test it too, have you tested it?

Jimmy

 

[MountainDew]

I did a test and the harness that plugs into the plug going to the sensor tested out just fine. However the wiring harness for the sensor itself, I only got .14v with the key on and .16v while cranking it.

It's gotta be the CAS.

I would try the rotating, but I don't think that's it. Sensor never came off the head at all. Plus I'm trying to avoid taking the whole damn timing belt off again.. 95-96 had those retarded sensors by the intake cam gear.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g95-96.htm

You would just have to disable your stock cam angle sensor and crank angle sensor. Also wire (you can just tap the lines instead of cutting the harness) the two wiring harnesses together as per the instructions above. If you aren't running DSMLink, you may want to research the "multiple cylinder misfire" error that comes with using a 1G CAS in a 2g car.

 

[hopwoodp]

The way I see it, you have two options: Go to www.jzntuning.com and order a new cam angle sensor http://www.trademotion.com/partloca...ipse&year=1995&catalogid=2&displayCatalogid=0

Or you could get the 1g cam angle sensor and wiring harness. The 1st gen cas are very easy to get and they will bolt onto your head. But, you will need to either make your own wiring harness or order the plug and play harness from Road Race engineering. There also is more wiring to do in order to get that to work. For instance, there is 4 wires on the ecu you must re-arrange to get it to fire right. But, if you have Dsmlink, you can just invert the cas signal and no need to go through all the wiring.

The 1st gen cas has its advantages like Tom said above. Read through it. Let us know if you have questions.

 

[MountainDew]

Yeah I know but everyone I've talked to about it have said they've only heard about it if you're going a 6bolt swap.

I still have the 7bolt and 2g head. I just want to go this route because it's a lot easier to replace, a lot cheaper (probably free) and what not.

How would I disable the crank and cam sensor? Just by unplugging it? Also good idea on just tapping into the wires! That way if I have a lot of problems, I could always go back to the old sensors and replace the CAS.

I do not have DSMLink and everyone I know with it have it for 1gs. I do have an EPROM ECU and was planning on getting a chip from dsmchips. I don't know if that would help the CEL. All honesty though, my CEL is always on and it idles high anyways.

Also, just tested the CAS even further. The car fires on 2 cylinders, starts, runs for a few seconds then dies. I Unplugged the CAS completely, and the car still started on those 2 cylinders and did the same exact thing as it did before. That right there tells me it's GOT to be the CAS.

CPS is fine I believe because if I unplug it, it doesn't even crank over with the CAS plugged in or unplugged.

 

[hopwoodp]

Yeah I know but everyone I've talked to about it have said they've only heard about it if you're going a 6bolt swap.

I still have the 7bolt and 2g head. I just want to go this route because it's a lot easier to replace, a lot cheaper (probably free) and what not.

How would I disable the crank and cam sensor? Just by unplugging it? Also good idea on just tapping into the wires! That way if I have a lot of problems, I could always go back to the old sensors and replace the CAS.

I do not have DSMLink and everyone I know with it have it for 1gs. I do have an EPROM ECU and was planning on getting a chip from dsmchips. I don't know if that would help the CEL. All honesty though, my CEL is always on and it idles high anyways.

Also, just tested the CAS even further. The car fires on 2 cylinders, starts, runs for a few seconds then dies. I Unplugged the CAS completely, and the car still started on those 2 cylinders and did the same exact thing as it did before. That right there tells me it's GOT to be the CAS.

CPS is fine I believe because if I unplug it, it doesn't even crank over with the CAS plugged in or unplugged.

That mod is not just for 6 bolt motors. People sometimes do it to control ignition timing.
Read the RRE page on it. Look at Tom's link and see if you can find it.

If you feel like it may be too hard for you, then just get the replacement one from the link I gave you.

To run the 1g cas, you just get the harness from RRE - unplug the stock harness and plug in the RRE plug and play harness. Then, go into the center console, pull the plug that goes to the portion of the ECU that has the CAS signal wires, pull of the clip that attaches the wires into the plug, swap the 4 and plug it back in and your set.

 

[MountainDew]

Yeah I know how to do it, it's pretty straight forward. I'm going to make the harness myself. Well with my dad's help. I mainly just wanted to check if it will work on a 7bolt because all I've hard on it is for 6bolt swaps.

Also, will I have to change the firing order? I wouldn't think I'd have to.

 

[hopwoodp]

Just change the two power wires on the ignition coil and you should be set.

 

[MountainDew]

MAJOR BUMP!

luv2rallye was kind enough to bring something to my attention.

"IMPORTANT note: In that RRE CAS wiring link for 95-96 (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g95-96.htm), the NTE7404 is a hex invertor IC chip (of which they are only using 1 invertor, the 1A-1Y one, the other 5 are grounded out) and the NTE977 is a transistor, both of which I suspect you will have to add (I doubt there will be any unused ones in the ECU). I suspect this is because for the 95-96 you need to invert the signal if you use a 1g CAS with the 95-96 ECU. This will be a little messy for you to make and may even be beyond your ability."

That is what he PMed me. Can anyone follow up on this? The RRE doesn't really go into it much. Is everything pretty much "straight forward" by wiring everything and switching the ECU wires? Doesn't switching the wires on the ECU "Invert" the CAS signal or whatever?

I'm a little confused. I'm going to go hunt for a 1G CAS tomorrow, so I hope I can get some answers by tomorrow afternoon.

Also in the PM..

"Notice that this 1g CAS into 2g wiring: http://www.roadraceengineering.com/e.../CASwiring.gif doesn't invert the CAS signal!!! So it's unclear to me with which wiring setup (invert or not) you change the firing order. Someone is not telling everything, perhaps even hopwoodp. Perhaps the RRE harness doesn't invert the signal which is why the firing order must be changed...or is it vice versa? If I were you I'd get this all specified before proceeding!"

BIG thanks again to everyone that has been of great help! Especially to luv2rallye and hopwoodp!

 

[MountainDew]

I found two 1G CAS' today. Going to do the swap tomorrow. Managed to find the plugs for the 2G CAS and CPS as well, so I can make my whole harness without even touching the wiring on my car. Even got a bunch of OEM wire haha. Gotta love junkyards, I think my grand total for today was like $14!

 

[MountainDew]

Just so everyone knows, I got the car running today!

 

[hopwoodp]

Right on man. So, what exactly did you end up doing? Do you have any photos of what you did?

 

[MountainDew]

Right on man. So, what exactly did you end up doing? Do you have any photos of what you did?

Nah, the 1G CAS swap is pretty easy and straight forward. Only thing I didn't do was switch the ECU wires, I had my dad do that. But I made the wiring harness and everything.

The only problem I ran into was an error in my wiring. The page I printed off, didn't print the yellow line going to the blue line on the CPS, so I had a wire that wasn't wired into the 1G CAS harness. Car wouldn't even turn over. We looked at the original PDF, soldered the wire in and the son of a bi*** fired right up!

I'm getting high idle and a little bit of a surge. I like the "surge" because it sounds badass, but sometimes the car will idle as high as 2700rpms! Most the time it's right around 2k though.

I'm still blowing smoke like I was before though, just not as bad. Also my oil return line (the one going to the oil pan, right?) was kinked and leaking massive oil. So I cut some hose, silliconed it and put the hose over it with a hoseclamp. Hasn't leaked a drip of oil yet. This is just a temp. soulution, I'll fix it when I get my new turbo and manifold.

As far as the smoke goes, it's GOT to be my turbo. But there's no shaft play, so I'm thinking the oil seals are shot. It's a shame too, the turbo is supposedly "brand new" when I bought the car.

Anyways, if anyone wants to do the 1G CAS swap, I have everything you need for it. I made a spare harness and still have another sensor itself. I'd sell them both for a pretty reasonable price. Or if you want to do it yourself and have any questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[luv2rallye]

Just for clarification for me (so I can send those who ask here) and others who want to know (when using a 1g CAS on a 95-96 ECU):

1) So did you use the wiring diagram without the invertor and transistor (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclipsetech/justin/CASwiring.gif)?

2) Which ecu wires do you then swap from what to what?

3) What is your final firing order then?

4) Does anyone know if the wiring diagram with the invertor and transistor (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g95-96.htm) is for the case of using original firing order then and no ECU wires change?

5) Does anyone know if it's the same or what needs to be changed when putting a 1g CAS on a 97-99 ECU?

 

[MountainDew]

Just for clarification for me (so I can send those who ask here) and others who want to know (when using a 1g CAS on a 95-96 ECU):

1) So did you use the wiring diagram without the invertor and transistor (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclipsetech/justin/CASwiring.gif)?

2) Which ecu wires do you then swap from what to what?

3) What is your final firing order then?

4) Does anyone know if the wiring diagram with the invertor and transistor (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g95-96.htm) is for the case of using original firing order then and no ECU wires change?

5) Does anyone know if it's the same or what needs to be changed when putting a 1g CAS on a 97-99 ECU?

1) Yes I used that exact wiring diagram. Just be careful if you print in black and white, that you know where the yellow wire is going!

2) I will check on the ECU wires when I get home from work and edit my post from there. BTW I highly recommend labeling each wire with a piece of paper from what you changed it to, incase you ever need to change it back.

3) I swapped the blue wires on the Ignition Coils and kept my original 4-1-2-3 firing order. Without swapping the wires, you need to change your firing order.

4) I'm not 100% sure, I'll look into it more later and edit my post.

5) I believe it is pretty much the same procedure for the 97-99 CAS, but I know the sensor is located differently then on the 97-99. Is the CPS on the right side of the timing belt or is it by the CAS on the left side of the valve cover? I'll look more into this later as well.

I'm thinking about just writing a DIY Tech Post on this. Sometime this weekend I'm thinking about wiring the transistor on PIN 85 on my ECU to see if I can clear my CEL, or atleast the slight misfiring part because I believe it is doing that a little bit.

 

[luv2rallye]

5) I believe it is pretty much the same procedure for the 97-99 CAS, but I know the sensor is located differently then on the 97-99. Is the CPS on the right side of the timing belt or is it by the CAS on the left side of the valve cover?

On the 95-99 the CPS (crank position sensor) is on a sensing blade on the crankshaft sprocket but it's wire harness comes out on the rear side of the timing belt cover (right side when facing it). On the 97-99 the CAS (camshaft angle sensor) is on the passenger rear side of the intake camshaft.

 

[schuetyd]

I have my car at a shop right now and they want $1100.00 to change out my Cas. I am think about doing this my self and thanks for all the info.

 

[NeMiZiS]

I have my car at a shop right now and they want $1100.00 to change out my Cas. I am think about doing this my self and thanks for all the info.

Change it your self it will take 10 minutes.
It should be 2 12mm nuts holding it on the studs, but I've seen some with 13mm too.
If your still having a hard time pull you upper intercooler piping off the throttle body.
It will give you a little more room to work.
1100.00 is outrageous.

 

[bryanwheat]

Change it your self it will take 10 minutes.
It should be 2 12mm nuts holding it on the studs, but I've seen some with 13mm too.
If your still having a hard time pull you upper intercooler piping off the throttle body.
It will give you a little more room to work.
1100.00 is outrageous.

2ga turbo cars have the cam angle sensor behind the cam gear, i don't know how removing the throttle body and intercooler pipe would help with that. Even with a 1g sensor there is no need to remove the throttle body.

 

[NeMiZiS]

I'm not familiar with the 2g cars, my bad.
I was under the impression that you can wire a 1g CAS into a 2g, so I thought they were about the same.
I apologize for not reading the whole thread, all I saw was 1100.00 to change a CAS and it sounded crazy to me.
But I meant just pull the piping off the throttle body.
Not remove the throttle body.