ECMlink 1g 1650 FIC high z tuning issues

[SasaniFab]

If he has his oem sensor hooked up why does he need to simulate narrowband?

That's what I mean, I thought I was ok because I'm running the oem o2 sensor in the factory location and the lc2 in a bung further downstream

 

[SasaniFab]

Also , with speed density I don't use the maf comp do I?

 

[boostdawd]

Also , with speed density I don't use the maf comp do I?

No sir u don't. Just make sure u have the drop down as speed density.

 

[Vegas Smith]

http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/widebandbasics

I think they are right. You wouldn't simulate nb unless you were exclusively running one o2 sensor. I just realized I had mine wrong so I'm glad I checked this thread

 

[SasaniFab]

thats what i thought guys, im pulling the motor on monday. Everything is going to be broken down and repainted up front. Im also going to be cleaning up the wiring as I purchased the rywire harness.

 

[kmetiuk]

http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/widebandbasics

I think they are right. You wouldn't simulate nb unless you were exclusively running one o2 sensor. I just realized I had mine wrong so I'm glad I checked this thread

Ya I'm dumb. I missed the part where you said you still had the stock OEM sensor wired in still...I looked at your log and saw the LC-1 in there and assumed you were using that.

And you are correct that you would use the VE table for air flow calibration, but when I saw the log with the fuel sliders are being adjusted to dial in AFR's I got my threads crossed with another guy doing the same thing excpet he was running MAF. My bad, got confused as to which thread I was on. Hahahah. Sorry for the confusion.

Personally though, I would use the wideband and simulate the NBO2. It is a much faster response and way higher resolution so it's switch point is much quicker....but that's personally preference and either way works TBH.

I just saw that you said the posted log is from your FP green and your old injectors so until you post a current log I don't know how else we can help you at this point.

That being said looking at your old log your AFR estimated and LC-1 WB AFR are waaaaay off. Your Combined FT is pegged at -21% which means your VE table is waaaay off.....but there is a different issue there.

I believe you have a boost leak after the throttle body somewhere....your Omni4Bar is showing -9 inhg and it should be closer to -14 to -20 depending on what cams your running. That is why your AFR Est is at 18 and your MAP is showing 14.9 even though your VE table at idle

If you have a boost leak after the TB and you dial in the global fuel to account for this unknowingly then when you are at WOT it's gonna go way rich. You might have the right AFR at the correct airflow per rev at idle, but with a leak this is a false global that will cause issues everywhere else.

Do a boost leak test and check around your injector seals, throttle body and around the intake manifold flange....you most def have a leak at -9 inhg.

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[SasaniFab]

Ya I'm dumb. I missed the part where you said you still had the stock OEM sensor wired in still...I looked at your log and saw the LC-1 in there and assumed you were using that.

And you are correct that you would use the VE table for air flow calibration, but when I saw the log with the fuel sliders are being adjusted to dial in AFR's I got my threads crossed with another guy doing the same thing excpet he was running MAF. My bad, got confused as to which thread I was on. Hahahah. Sorry for the confusion.

Personally though, I would use the wideband and simulate the NBO2. It is a much faster response and way higher resolution so it's switch point is much quicker....but that's personally preference and either way works TBH.

I just saw that you said the posted log is from your FP green and your old injectors so until you post a current log I don't know how else we can help you at this point.

That being said looking at your old log your AFR estimated and LC-1 WB AFR are waaaaay off. Your Combined FT is pegged at -21% which means your VE table is waaaay off.....but there is a different issue there.

I believe you have a boost leak after the throttle body somewhere....your Omni4Bar is showing -9 inhg and it should be closer to -14 to -20 depending on what cams your running. That is why your AFR Est is at 18 and your MAP is showing 14.9 even though your VE table at idle

If you have a boost leak after the TB and you dial in the global fuel to account for this unknowingly then when you are at WOT it's gonna go way rich. You might have the right AFR at the correct airflow per rev at idle, but with a leak this is a false global that will cause issues everywhere else.

Do a boost leak test and check around your injector seals, throttle body and around the intake manifold flange....you most def have a leak at -9 inhg.

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You are actually spot on basically with my old setup I had a huge boost leak at the throttle body, I have since corrected the boost leak issues. One of my issues has always been airflowperrev. I'm running gsc s1 cams so I believe my numbers will be a little higher than .25 correct?. My question is when I lower those number in that area at idle say 60,61,61.5 if I drop the numbers to say 50, 51, 52 the number surrounding are still 10 points higher? I thought the goal was to have a linear flow. Meaning if I drop the numbers you have highlighted the numbers surrounding those also need to be adjusted yes? You don't want 50, 51, 66 ? Lowering those number will lean out the mixture because your telling the engine to expect less air?

 

[kmetiuk]

You are actually spot on basically with my old setup I had a huge boost leak at the throttle body, I have since corrected the boost leak issues. One of my issues has always been airflowperrev. I'm running gsc s1 cams so I believe my numbers will be a little higher than .25 correct?. My question is when I lower those number in that area at idle say 60,61,61.5 if I drop the numbers to say 50, 51, 52 the number surrounding are still 10 points higher? I thought the goal was to have a linear flow. Meaning if I drop the numbers you have highlighted the numbers surrounding those also need to be adjusted yes? You don't want 50, 51, 66 ? Lowering those number will lean out the mixture because your telling the engine to expect less air?

To be honest I do not know which way your cams will affect your VE table or the airflowperRev.

That being said IF your deadtimes are to spec and your voltage table deadtimes are to the spec sheet that came with your injectors too, then all your really gonna need to play with is the global. My global is a tad more rich than the "calculator" in link suggests. It should be -78% but I find that all other variables and logs point to my global to be -74%.


The thing is with global fuel is that you can have a value that is slightly off by say 2% and your whole VE table will be calibrated with that 2% in there to compensate for the global being off...but there is more data in the logs to tell if your global is off. Never use the calculator at face value....its gonna get you close, but you still need to use the data logs to verify what the final number should be.


At idle with your cams are gonna be close to 0.25...but maybe not. What you need to do is have all the correct deadtimes entered, a closely correct global fuel and then dial in your VE until your AFREst matches your LC-1. Your combined FT must be as close to zero as possible...it will bounce around from 1-3% as it uses the OEM O2 sensor to look for that switch point....the faster the switch the lower range your combinedFT will bounce around. Personally though, if my AFREst is within 2-3 of the LC-1 i run in open loop mode so that the combinedFT is disabled and I can get my VE table PERFECTLY set at idle.

The way I check to see if my global fuel is close is to look at my Booset Est vs Omni4bar....you can have a really closely matching AFREst vs LC-1 but your BoostEst will not match your Omni. This is b/c the AFREst has the global fuel being compensated for by the VE table....but your BoostEst ONLY use the VE table. Basically the AFREst can have 2 wrongs in it (global being 2% to high and VE having 2% more air added to it) making a right so the AFREst vs LC-1 will match....but the Booset Est vs Omni4bar has only 1 wrong in it (the 2% to high VE table) so you can mos def see if global fuel is off.

Use both the Booset Est vs Omni4bar AND the AFREst vs LC-1 to dial in your global fuel and VE table at idle. Once you have both graphs matching very closely you know for sure that your global fuel is set. One thing tho, you MUST have the correct deadtimes....without them you CANNOT use the BoostEst and AFREst to dial in global as the deadtimes are a huge contributor to the total injector pulse width at idle. You also must have the elevation properly set in the logs to make sure your BoostEst is doing the estimate properly.

Once I have the global fuel dialed in I will go for several pulls and dial in the VE tables and then when the AFREst matches the LC-1 on a "good" run I will check the BoostEst vs Omni to make sure it following it pretty closely. Currently my BoostEst and Omni PERFECTLY match each other....like I literllay have to turn one on and off b/c they are overlayed so precisely you cannot tell there are 2 lines there. That's how I know for sure the 78% the calculator says to use is wrong for my setup....74% is right. For reference I am running the FIC 2150 highZ injectors.

For you main question about the cells around the highlighted cells that you change, yes I personally change the cells all around a certain cell. So say I need to change one cell at idle from 50 to 55 then all around them I will change them too...but much less drastically. So the center cell i change by 5 (50 -->55) then I will bump up the surrounding cells by 2-3 as well. Ideally you would want to change cell by cell by looking at the logs to dial in each cell, but for drastic changes of more than 1 to 2 % I change surrounding cells to "coarse" tune it quicker. I then come back later after I have a decent table and start doing log after log to dial in each cell individually.

What you said is true, you do want linear air flow. But there are resonances in the exhaust and intake pulses that do sometimes require a large jump in VE from one RPM to t the next sometimes. However, at IDLE you want it linear.

 

[SasaniFab]

To be honest I do not know which way your cams will affect your VE table or the airflowperRev.

That being said IF your deadtimes are to spec and your voltage table deadtimes are to the spec sheet that came with your injectors too, then all your really gonna need to play with is the global. My global is a tad more rich than the "calculator" in link suggests. It should be -78% but I find that all other variables and logs point to my global to be -74%.


The thing is with global fuel is that you can have a value that is slightly off by say 2% and your whole VE table will be calibrated with that 2% in there to compensate for the global being off...but there is more data in the logs to tell if your global is off. Never use the calculator at face value....its gonna get you close, but you still need to use the data logs to verify what the final number should be.


At idle with your cams are gonna be close to 0.25...but maybe not. What you need to do is have all the correct deadtimes entered, a closely correct global fuel and then dial in your VE until your AFREst matches your LC-1. Your combined FT must be as close to zero as possible...it will bounce around from 1-3% as it uses the OEM O2 sensor to look for that switch point....the faster the switch the lower range your combinedFT will bounce around. Personally though, if my AFREst is within 2-3 of the LC-1 i run in open loop mode so that the combinedFT is disabled and I can get my VE table PERFECTLY set at idle.

The way I check to see if my global fuel is close is to look at my Booset Est vs Omni4bar....you can have a really closely matching AFREst vs LC-1 but your BoostEst will not match your Omni. This is b/c the AFREst has the global fuel being compensated for by the VE table....but your BoostEst ONLY use the VE table. Basically the AFREst can have 2 wrongs in it (global being 2% to high and VE having 2% more air added to it) making a right so the AFREst vs LC-1 will match....but the Booset Est vs Omni4bar has only 1 wrong in it (the 2% to high VE table) so you can mos def see if global fuel is off.

Use both the Booset Est vs Omni4bar AND the AFREst vs LC-1 to dial in your global fuel and VE table at idle. Once you have both graphs matching very closely you know for sure that your global fuel is set. One thing tho, you MUST have the correct deadtimes....without them you CANNOT use the BoostEst and AFREst to dial in global as the deadtimes are a huge contributor to the total injector pulse width at idle. You also must have the elevation properly set in the logs to make sure your BoostEst is doing the estimate properly.

Once I have the global fuel dialed in I will go for several pulls and dial in the VE tables and then when the AFREst matches the LC-1 on a "good" run I will check the BoostEst vs Omni to make sure it following it pretty closely. Currently my BoostEst and Omni PERFECTLY match each other....like I literllay have to turn one on and off b/c they are overlayed so precisely you cannot tell there are 2 lines there. That's how I know for sure the 78% the calculator says to use is wrong for my setup....74% is right. For reference I am running the FIC 2150 highZ injectors.

For you main question about the cells around the highlighted cells that you change, yes I personally change the cells all around a certain cell. So say I need to change one cell at idle from 50 to 55 then all around them I will change them too...but much less drastically. So the center cell i change by 5 (50 -->55) then I will bump up the surrounding cells by 2-3 as well. Ideally you would want to change cell by cell by looking at the logs to dial in each cell, but for drastic changes of more than 1 to 2 % I change surrounding cells to "coarse" tune it quicker. I then come back later after I have a decent table and start doing log after log to dial in each cell individually.

What you said is true, you do want linear air flow. But there are resonances in the exhaust and intake pulses that do sometimes require a large jump in VE from one RPM to t the next sometimes. However, at IDLE you want it linear.

Thanks for your help... it's appreciated. I'd like you to take a look at my idle log after installing fic high z 1650. I installed them and had the idle dialed in perfect. From what I could tel anyway. But my cruise and wot was way way to rich. I'll post the log tmrw if u don't mind taking a look.

 

[kmetiuk]

Thanks for your help... it's appreciated. I'd like you to take a look at my idle log after installing fic high z 1650. I installed them and had the idle dialed in perfect. From what I could tel anyway. But my cruise and wot was way way to rich. I'll post the log tmrw if u don't mind taking a look.

Sure man. No prob. Post and I'll take a look.