1997 Talon TSi AWD NO spark on Cyl 1 and 4... Tried Everything !!!

[jaximus]

An Experts Help needed ! ! ! - Stock 4G63T 1997 Eagle Talon AWD 5 speed.

The issue I am having is that I don't get a spark on Cylinders 1 and 4.

I have changed all the spark plugs to new ones, changed all the injectors, tried another coilpack, changed the spark plug cables, even got my hands on another Cam Angle Sensor and tried it. Also bought a brand new Crank Angle sensor... just finished installing it today STILL without any luck !!!

And Yes, of course I did try a used ECU which was the only thing that solved my problem BUT ONLY FOR 20 MINUTES OF DRIVING.... after which the same issue came back to haunt me!

At this point I am stumped .... I believe it may be a wiring issue... I just can't be sure...

If I buy a brand new ECU it will cost me a fortune, I can get 1 more for cheap but Im afraid I may wreck it if the problem is an OVERCHARGE somewhere....

I also opened up the ECU to check if any of the Capacitors were bulged.. There were None.

 

[DSMN]

Have you tried the ignitor next to the coil pack? Also the resistor on the firewall for the coil pack

 

[jaximus]

Yes, I forgot to mention that I also swapped the Ignitor, However, I did not try the resistor... is it a resistor for the coil pack or a resistor for the injectors? what does it look like ? I should have one on my GSX I could pull and test tonight....

Thanks for such a fast reply by the way...

-Jack

 

[delta448]

Check the ECU harness wire on pin 10 for continuity with ground.

2G Turbo ECU Pinouts

 

[DSMN]

sorry about that, the one on the firewall is for the injectors. very good info by the way as stated above ^

 

[slow4g6392tsi]

Ignition power transistor. Have had a few fail and no spark on 1 and 4 happens every time.


EDIT:
Oh, just realized you guys must mean power transistor when you say ignitor. Never mind then.

 

[jaximus]

Well, First off, I would like to say thanks to all for such quick replies... I have a guy helping me that has had 10 DSMs and we still could'nt figure out the problem...

I just got back in from a 35 min drive after replacing the Resistor on the firewall from one that I had off my 1997 GSX. as pictured.

the first 5 seconds after I fired up, there was only 2 cylinders giving power, then magically all 4 kicked in. ... I drove hard for 25 minutes reving to 7000 rpm and the car ran like from the factory....

... after I came to my driveway and sat Idle for 5-7 minutes, the engine once again "shut down" 2 pistons and the problem was back....


This is just insane!!! I am stumped beyond belief! Its like there is some timer on this beast or something telling it to shut down after 30 min every time a change is made!

This problem is for the elite it seems, Unless the Harness on PIN 10 in on the ECU is not getting continuity with ground - I will check that out tomorrow evening.

Thanks for all the support !! Its very much appreciated !

-Jack

 

[Guilty1s]

The above part is not the ingition transistor. It does look like a transistor/resistor but not for the ignition.

Look for this part that is bolted to the IM.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I would put money down that is your problem if you have ruled out plugs/wires/Cam-crank sensors.

And i have known them to be intermittenly tempormental.

 

[Chaosweaver]

An Experts Help needed ! ! ! - Stock 4G63T 1997 Eagle Talon AWD 5 speed.

The issue I am having is that I don't get a spark on Cylinders 1 and 4.

I have changed all the spark plugs to new ones, changed all the injectors, tried another coilpack, changed the spark plug cables, even got my hands on another Cam Angle Sensor and tried it. Also bought a brand new Crank Angle sensor... just finished installing it today STILL without any luck !!!

And Yes, of course I did try a used ECU which was the only thing that solved my problem BUT ONLY FOR 20 MINUTES OF DRIVING.... after which the same issue came back to haunt me!

At this point I am stumped .... I believe it may be a wiring issue... I just can't be sure...

If I buy a brand new ECU it will cost me a fortune, I can get 1 more for cheap but Im afraid I may wreck it if the problem is an OVERCHARGE somewhere....

I also opened up the ECU to check if any of the Capacitors were bulged.. There were None.

I had the same problem, ended up being the transistor (Ignition control module).

 

[400hp93talon]

It's probably actually the coil pack thats bad.

 

[knochgoon24]

That power transistor listed above has been known to be temperamental when they start going bad and temperature can affect them as they go.

You might want to try replacing that.

 

[delta448]

I agree with the majority that the PT is the most likely problem, but unless you have another one just laying around to swap out, you should check the cheaper fix possibilities first. It's a little less likely, but personally, I'd rather just splice a couple wires than buy a new PT and then still end up splicing wires.

Unless the Harness on PIN 10 in on the ECU is not getting continuity with ground - I will check that out tomorrow evening.

It shouldn't have continuity with ground. If it does, replacing the PT won't help.

 

[97gst_spyder]

Also, check all the wires going to the Power Transistor. I had a bad ground from the PT and it caused this. Also, crank/cam sensors can cause this after they heat up.

 

[Chaosweaver]

It's probably actually the coil pack thats bad.

He said he tried another coil pack.

 

[viperlp01]

Check the wiring on the fire wall for the diagnostic plugs(2 little plugs, I think one is blue and one is brown). If one of those is damaged you will loose spark.

 

[jaximus]

So here is the update Guys....

After reading into what the solution to my problem most likely could be, (The Ignition Power Transistor/ Ignitor) malfunctioning.... I decided to call Mitsubishi for a quote on a brand new one. There price - $268 CAD plus taxes with a 15% restocking fee if It does'nt work. ... So I started digging... into my abundant supply of DSM parts... (not really), But what I did find was that same Power transistor in the picture above. (MIND YOU, THIS IS THE THIRD UNIT THAT I AM SWAPPING) - I did try this once before with still the same pistons 1 and 4 not getting power (weird) .

Plugged the third unit it into the Talon, And this time when I fired up, There was no delays/hicups and all 4 Pistons gave power!

I put the old ECU Back In , Put the old Injector Resistor back on the firewall and plugged it in. ..

Now all im left with is extra parts... All that are probably still in working condition.

Damn, Who would have known.

Once again.. Cheers to all for the informative suggestions ! hopefully she will run this time for a lot longer then 25 minutes! But I might be back if my luck turns bad!


-Jack D.

 

[jaximus]

Looks like the problem is fixed.. many thanks!

 

[dsmbud3113]

This happened to me a week ago. Funny thing was when I took cyl 3 spark plug wire out to see which cyl were out it started running fine again like It was fixed. I replaced the ignition module cause it was very hot. I know they handle the coils so I'm sure they are suppose to get hot but I couldn't even touch the thing it was so hot. So far it's been fine tho.

 

[99talongsx]

sounds like a bad ground somewhere either on the transistor or maybe even a bad motor ground to me

 

[jaximus]

Interesting...

 

[rbinstoon]

I have a similar situation to this so I hope someone can help.

I have a 1997 Talon non-turbo and I work in the far north so it sits in a parking compound for a couple weeks at a time. One time this past winter when I came back the battery was dead and I needed a boost - I was headed back home (about 6 hours away) but after 5-10 minutes it began to idle poorly and would chug or stutter when leaving a light and it quickly got worse until within another 10 min it would barely idle and ran very roughly. I decided to spend the night and get it checked in the AM but wanted to check which cylinders as it seemed like it was missing. I found it was missing spark on 1&4 but while pulling off spark plug wires to check i noticed a big crack in the coil that was actually split open a 1/4" I replaced the coil and plug wires as one connector pulled out of the boot when checking the cylinders.

It started perfectly after that so I headed home but after a few minutes it began to lose power intermittently like someone flipping a switch - it would cruise fine then lose power for a few seconds then come back on. It got worse until after several minutes it lost spark to 1&4 cylinders completely again. It must be something upstream of the coil but what could be wrong that it would run perfectly for a short time after changing the coil and wires but quit again? I have read about cam and crank sensors, power transistors and ECUs causing problems but I doubt it's the sensors because they wouldn't suddenly work with a new coil and wires so could it be a transistor, ECU or some kind of voltage problem that then damaged the coil again?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

I'm not sure if this will help but I also noticed when the radiator fans kicked in it affected the engine in that the idle would change and it would stumble.

 

[Moonlight GSX]

I have a question about the power transistor, would this be an adequate signal for a high output inductive coil (from AEM) that requires a +12V from the ignition and a standard signal for the coil trigger, with a last signal from ground? Of course this would have to be for 4 separate coils...

AEM High Output Inductive "Dumb" Coil

 

[oALIENATIONo]

I have a similar situation to this so I hope someone can help.

I have a 1997 Talon non-turbo and I work in the far north so it sits in a parking compound for a couple weeks at a time. One time this past winter when I came back the battery was dead and I needed a boost - I was headed back home (about 6 hours away) but after 5-10 minutes it began to idle poorly and would chug or stutter when leaving a light and it quickly got worse until within another 10 min it would barely idle and ran very roughly. I decided to spend the night and get it checked in the AM but wanted to check which cylinders as it seemed like it was missing. I found it was missing spark on 1&4 but while pulling off spark plug wires to check i noticed a big crack in the coil that was actually split open a 1/4" I replaced the coil and plug wires as one connector pulled out of the boot when checking the cylinders.

It started perfectly after that so I headed home but after a few minutes it began to lose power intermittently like someone flipping a switch - it would cruise fine then lose power for a few seconds then come back on. It got worse until after several minutes it lost spark to 1&4 cylinders completely again. It must be something upstream of the coil but what could be wrong that it would run perfectly for a short time after changing the coil and wires but quit again? I have read about cam and crank sensors, power transistors and ECUs causing problems but I doubt it's the sensors because they wouldn't suddenly work with a new coil and wires so could it be a transistor, ECU or some kind of voltage problem that then damaged the coil again?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

I'm not sure if this will help but I also noticed when the radiator fans kicked in it affected the engine in that the idle would change and it would stumble.

I have generally the same issue. One day I was driving home after emissions, downshifted and hit 15PSI boost to pass people when the light turned and then my RPM gauge went absolutely crazy, I had no power, and my car died. I got it to an autozone/o'reilly's, ran an obd2, and found out I had a multiple cylinder misfire. Pulled my plugs individually to find that my cylinder 1 and 4 had no spark. Replaced my plug wires, plugs, and ignition coil and had it running just fine again. Drove the car for a day and hit turbo on the way back from a mountain run, and once again, same issue. Replaced the coil again, running fine, hit boost RIGHT after replacing it, no spark out of 1 and 4. I'm not sure what's causing it to do this and everyone I've talked to just can't figure it out. The car runs absolutely great when it's not doing this, but I can not figure out for the life of me what is causing it. If you figured out the problem you had, would you be able to tell me what your's was so I can look into it?