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1992 Talon TSI 6/4 AUTO

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Marty,

You might have an issue with your fuel pressure regulator not scaling with boost 1:1. Verify your diaphragm is good with a small hand pump, it should hold pressure indefinitely. Next thing I would do is solve your fuel pressure logging issue. The gage probably makes this unnecessary, but that's very handy data to have in the logs (to share with others).

What is your hanger setup? Do you have a modified stock hanger?

If fuel pressure is rising 1:1 at the rail, I would say your lean issue could be in the injector scaling.

Ill look at your log when I get home tonight. I feel your pain... Just wanna go fast!

-rabenne
Hey Will, I have swapped regulators from my red Dsm and no change what so ever. I HAVEN'T done a static manual crank up of the pressure but I will to make sure the last of the 3 525 pumps is doing its job.
Also, the wiring going to the Ecu is a suspect in the FP logging issue. It worked for about 2 weeks then just stopped. I think it may be ECU related as maybe ALL OF THIS is.
Thank ALL OF YOU for trying to help out the "old fart"!
 

rabenne

Proven Member
1,779
762
Apr 21, 2006
Racine, Wisconsin
Worth verifying the pump can generate base fuel pressure + boost pressure with car off and pump running...

What is your fuel pump hanger setup? Is there a hose off the pump outlet, or is it pushed inside a bore with an oring? My 2g hanger had issues sealing with the hellcat pump.

I hope you figure it out before winter!
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
THIS is my fuel pump hanger setup Will.
Bulkhead fittings and barbs on both the pump and the bulkhead fitting. I have a pc of radiator hose around the pump and its held onto the hanger with 2 hose clamps.

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rabenne

Proven Member
1,779
762
Apr 21, 2006
Racine, Wisconsin
Hanger assembly looks like a really good setup...

Any chance you went overboard with the clamps that hold the pump? Squeeze tight enough and I'd imagine you'd start to deform the housing and potentially create extra drag on the armature.

Not to say I've seen anything like that... it would take some serious squeeze!

I looked through your log and saw a few things I don't love, but nothing that would cause this issue. Not to say it isn't in there, but I don't see it.

My next move would be to get that pressure sensor logging again. What does your gauge say when you are trying to drive that thing?
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
42+ lbs waiting on boost so it will go up BUT I have to do a manual test.
I have a video somewhere I need to find (prolly on the GoPro) that shows it.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
It randomly goes up and down at idle, as far as AFR's.
Mike, she has had me so pissed that I have not been spending enough time with her but I have a 3 day weekend so the manual test will get done. I don't believe it is a pressure issue, at this time, but that test will show one way or another.
 

Vegas Smith

Proven Member
4,746
2,603
Dec 2, 2002
Houston, Texas
You're seeing a complete leaning-out on the wideband over like 300rpms and virtually no boost increase. There's no way that's a mechanical issue. My money is on the wideband controller.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
You could donate one to the cause............;);)
Man Nick, I don't care what it is or what it cost's, I am so tired of f***ing with this thing.......
And Thanks, I appreciate you!
 

DreamChaser7

Supporting VIP
65
38
Jul 18, 2019
Valrico, Florida
So the rebuilt IPT transmission (built by Bill Swaney Transmissions) went in this weekend (4/4/2021) and so far so good. I couldn't get the cv shaft to let loose on the passenger side no matter what I tried so I ordered another shaft for that side and got the trans up and bolted in. Only needing the converter bolted up and the axles put in and fluid. I am ready to see how this new unit works with all IPT internals and a welded center differential by @Darren Thomas Racing, thanks Darren! I made a converter hold down strap out of an old 6 bolt oil pump pickup leg that I had cut off to use with a Kiggly girdle and that thing was a life saver after indexing the converter and bolts right to one of the transfer case holes so you can remove it after the thing is in the car! :thumb:
Thanks for following along on this "journey"!
I will be adding one additional cooler to the setup, and will post up some pictures when that happens also.
Getting my Hankook Ventus drag radials mounted also...…..:cool:
Marty

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It seems to me you should stop disrespecting the other baby and move that parking sign to where she spends the majority of her time Marty..😉The lift seems to be a DSM placeholder.. LOL. Wish I had one!
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Well, the delima of the car not fueling up when you push the gas/under load continues.
I replaced the ECU as a test for it being a problem....no change.
I got spunky yesterday and changed the WB controller (Innovate LC2) that was graciously donated to me to try, so I wired it in and plugged in the sensor.....still no change.
Fuel pressure is up above 43 lbs unless I can get the car to idle, then vacuum pulls it down like it should.
This fuel system is new from front to back and still this problem of not adding fuel when I try to accelerate, even just sitting still, is still so bad that I can't drive the car. It is very hard to get started now and never used to be so I am stumped there too. I even went back to gasoline to make sure my barrels of E hadn't gone stale and she doesn't care (it is a flex fuel tuned car). I am about ready to quit or offer up a "reward" to the first person to fix this issue, that's how sick of it I am. I have her back in my shop so I can go over everything ONE MORE TIME, everything. I don't think a PTU or Ignition could do what she is doing but if anyone reading this thinks I need to check some other things I am up to giving it a shot.
Well, thanks for reading. It really is a bummer not to be able to drive such a nasty Muscle Car Killer for grins.
If anybody wants to see a log, I can run another if you feel like trying to help out, but if you're reading this, you probably already have tried and I thank you!!!
Later :thumb:
Marty
 

JeffGS-T97

Supporting Member
954
625
Mar 22, 2019
Muncie, Indiana
Hey Marty I know you are a great mechanic but i was wondering how you have the tank vent setup on there. My old neon had issues circulating gas once upon a time due to an issue with the gas tank not vented good enough. I think the excess pressure in the tank restricted the fuel flow. Probably not your issue but I'd figured i would throw that out there.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Thank you guys! I will throw a new CTS in and loosen the gas cap, that should vent.
You really find out who your friends are when this type of problem, a year long, comes along.
Super appreciate it, to ALL! :hellyeah:
Marty
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
I have one from the last time I tried to fire her up. I will go try to get it to start and log for all to see.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
What a bi*** to start and keep running.....
I have had more than one ECMLink computer on her AND have her back on gas not E now. It is (or was) set up for flex fuel when KJ and I first got it on a good base tune (which could be corrupt now),
Thanks!

Looking at my own log, I need to go back out and reset the TPS........hmmmm :hmm:
 

Attachments

  • log.2022.01.14-02 VERY HARD TO START AND KEEP RUNNING.elg
    135.8 KB · Views: 2

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Set the TPS.....we all know how FUN that is.........:beatentodeath:
She is still hating on me (wish it were that simple)
I have plenty of fuel pressure it just wont log anymore, 43+
 

Attachments

  • log.2022.01.14-04 LOG AFTER TPS SET.elg
    72.4 KB · Views: 2

rabenne

Proven Member
1,779
762
Apr 21, 2006
Racine, Wisconsin
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Is that TPS signal (green) that jagged because you are modulating the pedal that much or is the TPS signal dropping to 0% due to wiring or sensor issues??

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I see 7 peaks and valleys in 1 second of data, your feet that fast?
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
They most DEFINITELY are not that fast unless I was caught in a strangers bedroom.......ROFL
I even thought it was weird that it was out of sync to start with so maybe I should try another TPS, what do you think?
I ran the log and didn't look it over. The 2nd log after adjusting it I was pretty much letting the car try to do its own thing and not touch the gas unless I absolutely had to, which wasn't THAT much, then, as soon as I got inside the dam computer battery died, go figure.
 

rabenne

Proven Member
1,779
762
Apr 21, 2006
Racine, Wisconsin
Inspect the connector and any exposed part of the harness/wiring you can see. Ensure it's fully seated on the sensor. If anything looks suspect, clean it up or repair it. If it all looks good, throw another tps on it if you have one handy.

Fingers crossed for you sir
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
To those following, this weekend I had a breakthru on the car not running/running super lean. At the advice of all the different members on here, (you all know I have replaced dam near everything), this weekend I replaced the throttle body with a different one with a brand new TPS on it. I also made sure the FIAV was screwed all the way in, and it was. I pulled the fuel rail and did a DIY cleaning of the 2150's, even tho they were new. I replaced the CTS while I was there and successfully destroyed the CAS connector (who knew it was as brittle as glass??) ....BUT.....after all of that R&R, the car is running. I am sure I could hear an intake manifold leak and confirmed some kind of leak with a can of carb spray down at the head/intake mating area. I have had to replace that before and it appears to have a vacuum leak as I have the BISS screw all the way in currently. When I spray down there, the engine responds, so I know I have to get that replaced but other than that, SHE RUNS and was making nice turbo sounds on Sunday. I did not get a chance to test drive her yet, maybe today.
ANYWAY............
THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU THAT HAVE HUNG IN THERE WITH ME ALMOST A FULL YEAR!
You know your true friends are always there for ya! I sure appreciate each and every one of you!
More to come, hopefully good news instead of me grumbling about the car running lean and won't drive. I am NOT sure which part brought her back, but I am glad to report she is running again!
Marty :thumb:
 

rabenne

Proven Member
1,779
762
Apr 21, 2006
Racine, Wisconsin
I bet $1.00 USD that it was the TPS... post a log of it running right and I bet that signal isn't dropping to zero anymore. That makes me think sensor itself or possibly disturbing the wires solved the intermittent signal issues. Hopefully the sensor itself, that's easiest to fix!

Glad you are back!
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
8,572
4,476
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Lets look at the log.......shall we.......? :)
I was just ASTATIC that she started and didn't do the super lean out thing. It could have also been an erratic CTS but I honestly don't know what I did to "fix" it, I just hope it stays.
Have a look see if you want, this was after I set the TPS. Thanks Will!!!!
 

Attachments

  • log.2022.01.23-05 LOG AFTER SETTING TPS ON NEW TB.elg
    44 KB · Views: 3
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