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1990 timing/cas problem. ### need car running.

Posted by jrdrew5, Jan 8, 2013

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  1. jrdrew5

    jrdrew5 Proven Member

    294
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    Joined Oct 14, 2009
    jacksonville, Florida
    Alright so long story short balance shaft belt broke. Causing bent vavles all good and back together now. Car wont start. Check mechanical timing seem good to me and 2 friends. Problem is the cam snesor. I will post pics. But seems the line on cam and Line on the sensor can't line up cause my cam in vertical not horizontal. Now when I see this I check my timing marks there dead on. But cam is facing up ?so I can't line up cas marks. Here's pics anymore questions ### ask. I'm a little stressed LOL.
     

    Attached Files:

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    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  2. russell3123

    russell3123 Proven Member

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    peabody, Massachusetts
    Do all the timing marks line up after you turn the crank six full times ? take a picture of the cam gear marks.
     

    411  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 2G DSM
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  3. jrdrew5

    jrdrew5 Proven Member

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    jacksonville, Florida
    So put at Tdc on number 1 the. 6 revoltions?
     

    410  0

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  4. jrdrew5

    jrdrew5 Proven Member

    294
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    Joined Oct 14, 2009
    jacksonville, Florida
    The one at the lower angle is 1tdc 2 is after 6 1/4 revolutions didn't line up after 6 equal revolutions then again that's just my arm telling itself it went all the way around LOL.
     

    Attached Files:

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    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  5. Jon91TSi

    Jon91TSi Proven Member

    739
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    Joined Jan 1, 2004
    Bernville, Pennsylvania
    LOL.. Your timing looks to be at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock on the dowel pins. They need to both be at 12 o'clock and the cam gears need to be swapped to achieve that. I'd be willing to bet the valves are probably bent again if you turned that engine over with the starter. The fidanza cam gears are set up for an EVO and a DSM, you have them in the wrong configuration. Just because the marks on the gears line up does not mean the engine is in time, you need to look at the dowel pins as well. If they aren't at 12 o'clock, and everything else lining up, it's time to start again.
     

    655  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
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  6. jrdrew5

    jrdrew5 Proven Member

    294
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    Joined Oct 14, 2009
    jacksonville, Florida
    That's the wierd thing they came out of a running driving car with no problems and I didn't take cam gears off.
     

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    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  7. Jon91TSi

    Jon91TSi Proven Member

    739
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    Joined Jan 1, 2004
    Bernville, Pennsylvania
    I assure you the timing is WAY off.
     

    655  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
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  8. jrdrew5

    jrdrew5 Proven Member

    294
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    Joined Oct 14, 2009
    jacksonville, Florida
    Ok so I'm tearing it Down now. Best way to check for bent vavles take the cams out ?
     

    410  0

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  9. Jon91TSi

    Jon91TSi Proven Member

    739
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    Joined Jan 1, 2004
    Bernville, Pennsylvania
    #1 Peek in the oil fill hole and see if the rockers jumped off and are laying the bottom of the head. If they have/ pull the head and skip step #2. If they are still there move to step #2. #2 Compression and/or leakdown test. A compression test wouldn't hurt if you already turned it over since the damage has alread been done.

    Also... Don't let your two friends help you any more. They have absolutely no clue what they're doing.
     

    655  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
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  10. DSM1G90

    DSM1G90 Proven Member

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    Joined Apr 6, 2008
    Nampa, Idaho
    Gonna ask a dumb question here: You're first pic shows the INT cam 90* off with the slots on the end of the cam vertical.

    Next is the 3rd party sprockets put on with marks all aligned up, but the INT sprocket shows the dowel pin NOT at the 12:00 position for TDC, but at the 9:00 position. Do we have our sprockets on wrong? (Dang, hope this isn't the case, otherwise you just toasted a set of INT valves with the cam that far off...)

    All forms of engine tuning is all based on TDC with No.1 piston at coompression stroke.

    Thus, the INT cam end has a symbol stamped on the end of it that looks like a house. The house has to be towards the front and the slot cutouts at the end of the cam has to be horizontal with the INT cam at TDC.

    The CAS had a notch marked on the outer casing and the tang that has a groove on the end on the CAS meets up to that notch.

    Get the assembly aligned back at TDC, get everything all aligned back up, put in the CAS, and that thing should fire up immediately.

    Good luck- DSM
     

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    1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo
    · 1G DSM
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  11. jrdrew5

    jrdrew5 Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 14, 2009
    jacksonville, Florida
    Just hope I didn't bend em that's the whole problem from the beginning LOL. So how could this of happened when all I did was swap cams and gears from a running car ? Never took cam gears off at all ?
     

    410  0

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  12. Jon91TSi

    Jon91TSi Proven Member

    739
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    Joined Jan 1, 2004
    Bernville, Pennsylvania
    The gears *Could* be on the cams the right way, but that doesn't matter at this point. What matters is that the dowel pins are pointing at 12 o'clock. yours arent. You looked solely at the marks on the cam gears, and not at the dowel pins at all. That's how this happened.
     

    655  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
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  13. jrdrew5

    jrdrew5 Proven Member

    294
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    Joined Oct 14, 2009
    jacksonville, Florida
    So if u look at the second set of pics. There is a mark 1 little line at 12 oclock is it safe to say I should go buy those marks if there is a matching one on the other gear ? Or use those as a reference if everything lines up go with it ? as long as the pins are in the right postion.
     

    410  0

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  14. Jon91TSi

    Jon91TSi Proven Member

    739
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    Joined Jan 1, 2004
    Bernville, Pennsylvania
    You need both pins pointing at 12 o clock. Like I said before, the cam gears can be run in both a DSM and EVO configuration. Go to Fidanza's website and read on how to set them up for your car. Also look at my illustration. If you're confused check the vfaq. Not to be rude, but with as much information as there is out there on timing jobs there should be absolutely no reason anyone, even a noob, screws them up.
     

    Attached Files:

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    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
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  15. jrdrew5

    jrdrew5 Proven Member

    294
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    Joined Oct 14, 2009
    jacksonville, Florida
    Believe it or not I went thru 2 pages of tutorial read Timing ones. Not one said anything about pins that why I thought I was right. Ill report back tomorrow with pics before I put it all back together. I think everyone for the help.
     

    410  0

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  16. Jon91TSi

    Jon91TSi Proven Member

    739
    10
    Joined Jan 1, 2004
    Bernville, Pennsylvania
    Vfaq mentiones the pins being at 12 o'clock numerous times. No idea what article you were reading. Let us know what you find.
     

    Attached Files:

    655  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  17. russell3123

    russell3123 Proven Member

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    Joined May 6, 2006
    peabody, Massachusetts
    Youre off 90deg, the cam dowel pins must be at 12 oclock like jon stated. 1^^

    I would put some stock cam gears on and line up the timing and see if it starts before you pull the head off.
     

    411  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 2G DSM
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  18. jrdrew5

    jrdrew5 Proven Member

    294
    1
    Joined Oct 14, 2009
    jacksonville, Florida
    Swapped to stock cam gears started up 2nd try after swapping plug wires runs fine. ### mark resolved.
     

    410  0

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  19. Jon91TSi

    Jon91TSi Proven Member

    739
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    Joined Jan 1, 2004
    Bernville, Pennsylvania
    compression test?
     

    655  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  20. jrdrew5

    jrdrew5 Proven Member

    294
    1
    Joined Oct 14, 2009
    jacksonville, Florida
    Will do tomorrow tester is at work. Runs fine tho just drove 50+ miles.
     

    410  0

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...

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