154,000 mile 14b stock turbo.. good or not?

[AlaskanDsm]

I am finally able to tear the engine apart and I was going through some of the parts and I came across the turbo and wondered if it was any good. I checked shaft play and amazingly there is NO shaft play in any direction. My only concern was that I found traces of oil in the intercooler hoses. So i'm not sure if the turbo is leaking oil or not.

Should I re-use the turbo? Knowing how it acted before the engine died and with the condotions, or should I use one my dad's friend gave me with no knowledge of it? which should I use as a back-up if you guys think that the 154,000 mile one is still good?

 

[dsmmike50t]

So do you mean 250,000k's on that turbo or was that a mistake. I think as long as the shaft play is fine why not use it. I usually see 14b' selling on the on other forums and the main concern is always shaft play.

 

[Twinky-Ninja]

How did it act, and what were the conditions before the motor quit? Small traces of oil in your intake tract is normal. Was the engine smoking at all when it last ran? Assuming there was no smoke, and it operated properly, I would reuse it. Of course, unless your looking to upgrade.
Dave

 

[moto x]

Give it a try it shoulnd hurt anything if it burns oil.

 

[AlaskanDsm]

Sorry for the wait on the reply. No I mean it has 154,000 miles on the turbo. Unless i misunsdertand your statement dsmmike50t.

The condition of the turbo when it was working was always great. I beat my friends 2002 F150 with no mods on my car at all not even full on the gas... hehe it was funny because my tranny was messed up at the time and ground out second....and still beat him. . So the turbo was always reliable. but it did burn a little bit of oil...so I'm not sure if it should be re-used

I am eventually looking to upgrade but right now both of my cars are ripped apart. This one is a donor to the other car. And the other turbo is the same as this one. Just without any knowledge of its origins.

 

[dsmsucks]

Well it all depends on how the turbo was treated(oil, boost setting). My 14b had 170,000miles on it and was still good! Stayed at stock boost till 168,000 when I added a boost controller!

 

[Defiant]

Like used cars, we can't appraise what we can't touch. We can only guess. The most accurate answer is "maybe".

 

[NATAS]

Yeah Defiant is right. I can help shed a little insight on what could be going on with the turbo.

First off since there isn't any shaft play and it came off a running car, it should boost fine. The real question is how long will it be ok for. Do you really want to bolt a 150k mile turbo back onto your car? Chances are very high you'll be pulling it off shortly especially if you crank the boost over stock. Also, make sure the hotside isn't cracked to hell because that'll make it hold boost like ass.

The oil in your intercooler, while common, does do unseen damage to your turbo. Well not damage really; but wear yes. That oil turns into charred deposits which is called coking. A high mileage turbo will have a shit ton of coking. The 14b's get it the most between the back of the center section and the turbine wheel heat shield. Eventually it gets so caked and packed in there that you damage the heat shield itself that causes it to crack and bend upward which puts it in the way of the exhaust wheel and that's all she wrote. Your exhaust wheel makes contact with the bent heatsheild and metal on metal at 100,000rpm equals shredding and carnage .

Also, the rubber o-rings that seal off the compressor housing and center section will be like brittle plastic. The heat just owns them. They get coked up too and eventually either crack or oil pushes past (probably what's up with yours) because they're so coked up. Another issue is the metal sealing ring on the back of the shaft. That too basically erodes from the heat and coking and disintegrates.

As if that's not enough, the tiny little circlips in the back of the center section can wear away causing the center journal bearing to have travel. The final common issue is that the cooling slit on your thrust bearing gets clogged with shit from your oiling system (in 150k every motor has some sort of matter pass through it i.e. metal, gasket particles, etc). It gets packed in there and your thrust bearing can't be cooled/lubricated properly and shit starts to break. That's usually characterized by the tubo being really loud and/or whining.

Bottom line is that even if you maintain your turbo with absolute perfection it's still going to get worn out. They spin at incredibly high RPM and are subject to 1500+ degress on a daily basis, so things just give up. Nothing lasts forever on a car motor haha. When your turbo does let go, and it will, you can get lucky and just have to replace it or you can get a bunch of metal shavings in your intake which is sketchy at best. Luckily the intercooler stops some of them, but not all. I don't know about you, but the chance of having metal shavings enter my engine via the throttle body is worth the few hundred bucks to make it right.

I've been rebuilding turbos as a hobby for many years and I can honestly say that any used 14b that's come into my shop has had an unbelievable amount of coking. Most of them come to me because of bad compressor side 0-rings, but I also see a fair amount with worn out shaft seals (sealing ring) and cracked/bent turbine shields. If you're not on an extremely tight budget you should have it rebuilt (costs more than it's worth unless you know somebody) or consider upgrading to a 16g that'll have way less miles or just get brand new which is the best idea.

Sorry about the really long post, but I just wanted to try and explain what's happening inside your turbo that you can't see. If you need the contact info of some good and fairly priced rebuild shops I can point you in the right direction. Luckily since you have your turbo off and it hasn't had a chance to blow your rebuild won't be nearly as expensive if that's the route you decide to go. I've been able to rebuild a 14b for $33 (both O-rings, sealing ring, and both journal bearings) before, so if you maintain it and fix it before it goes all the way out you may be able to get away very cheaply. Good luck whatever you decide to do. PM me if you want that info for turbo rebuilders.

Longest post ever! I won't let that happen again because I know posts aren't supposed to be that long and I doubt anyone is going to read the whole thing even though it's good info. Sorry to the OP for bombing your thread with that huge thing .

 

[AlaskanDsm]

Haha, that is perfectly ok with me! I like learning new things especially when explained so clearly. I just now need to do some research to understand some of the things u talked about to get the best idea. THANK YOU! Also if something happens with either turbo I have, it will be the second time i will have to rebuild my engine.

My new engine just spun a rod bearing and needed a new crank and also a new rod. Sucks really. And this turbo was always very reliable and never made any noises, But since I do believe that the turbo that I took off the engine from my GSX, (My talon is the one that spun a rod) has the 154,000 miles, should I just keep it as a back up?

I know I asked this before but, on my Talon I am using the turbo given to me by my dad's friend who is also a DSMer. I know nothing about this turbo... But before the engine went out on me, I remember the turbo spooled up 3 times as loud as my turbo from the GSX... but didn't seem to pull as hard. Also that could have been attributed to my newness to the cars before I became a member and never did a boost leak test on the car after rebuild.

So my question is...should I use the 154,000 miles turbo that I know worked great when my GSX was running... or should I continue to use the turbo that I have on the Talon currently that I know nothing about?

 

[turboglenn]

one thing to note, there should ALWAYS be some "side to side" play althouhg minimal it should be there, none woule be evidence of "oil coking" in the center section.. there should be NO "in and out" play though...just a little advice on the subject of turbos

 

[AlaskanDsm]

hmm... Yea I guess that is true. But I do know that there is NO in/out shaft play as for side to side i'll have to re-check and post back. I Just want to make sure I put the right turbo on even though they are both 14b stock turbos. And does anyone have any idea why the one in my Talon seemed to make spooling noises a lot louder then the turbo in my GSX?

 

[clockworktoy]

hmm... Yea I guess that is true. But I do know that there is NO in/out shaft play as for side to side i'll have to re-check and post back. I Just want to make sure I put the right turbo on even though they are both 14b stock turbos. And does anyone have any idea why the one in my Talon seemed to make spooling noises a lot louder then the turbo in my GSX?

an atmosphere type filter, or hard intake pipe will make the sound louder, so if you have the same mods on both it might be something with the turbo itself

 

[AlaskanDsm]

Oh okay. At the time of the rebuild...the car when I bought it, came with an HKS aftermarket oil type filter system. I guess that could have been the cause. But does anyone have any thought as to which turbo to use? I know I keep asking but I just want to make sure the right one goes on until I upgrade to something bigger. I plan on comparing the shaft play and the overall appearance of both. Any help would be greatly appreciated!