14B or T25...

[upshiftN]

Plain and simple, I have a stock fuel system and don't plan on upgrading it anytime soon if at all. What is better to have, a 14B with low miles or my T25 that came with the car at around 97K. I have a profec b and can set it to max psi, so what would be more powerful at around 15 psi and carry all the way through??? This is probably written somewhere, just can't seem to find it at the moment...

 

[diablos991]

The 14b is a bigger better turbo. If you are on the stock fuel system, you may want to get a logger before turning your boost up to 15psi. That way you could be sure that you are not getting any knock.

Also you will need a 2g install kit (like the one associated with the e316g). Alot of vendors sell them.

 

[upshiftN]

and the logger is just a more accurate tool for reading psi, correct?

 

[diablos991]

Nope. It lets you monitor timing advance. Along with many other important engine statistics.
If your timing advance is being pulled then you are running too lean and your are getting detonation.(knock)

 

[Snobordin8]

No the logger does not read psi. Check out www.obdloggers.com, it'll give you good info on what a logger does. They are very helpful for tuning. Other places to get them are:
http://www.dsmloggers.com/
http://www.pocketlogger.com/

You could check ebay, and also the classifieds here on Tuners.

 

[zachakagoat]

No the logger is a palmpilot that plugs in through your cars OBDII port to your ecu. It reads different things like RPM, MPH, Timing, injector rates and lots of stuff. When uping the boost it is needed to make sure you are not letting your car get knock or close to detenation. I would recomment the 14b because it will react so much more to mods than the T25. Also the T25 dies off at 5500 rpms

 

[upshiftN]

Ok this is very helpful so far, but just a couple more questions... Can the 14B wastegate handle the same psi ratings like the T25 can (10-14.8), like is the spring pressure the same basically? And Lastly, where can i buy a logger, how much do they go for, and how do i use it (where do i tap into)??

 

[Snobordin8]

Ok this is very helpful so far, but just a couple more questions... Can the 14B wastegate handle the same psi ratings like the T25 can (10-14.8), like is the spring pressure the same basically? And Lastly, where can i buy a logger, how much do they go for, and how do i use it (where do i tap into)??

Where to get it? Maybe you didn't read my previous post?:

.....Check out www.obdloggers.com, it'll give you good info on what a logger does. They are very helpful for tuning. Other places to get them are:
http://www.dsmloggers.com/
http://www.pocketlogger.com/

You could check ebay, and also the classifieds here on Tuners.

I paid $150 for mine shipped from www.obdloggers.com. I received it in two days just as described on there web page.

It just simply plugs into the obd2 port under your driver side dash, by where your right knee is when driving, but under the dash.

 

[upshiftN]

ya sorry about that... when i posted my response, yours and the other guys' post hadn't showed up yet, so i did catch what you wrote back to me after it. Thanks again though.

 

[diablos991]

To answer your other question, the 14b wastegate should be controlled by a boost controller. I would not rely on the wastegate to keep the boost levels of that turbo down.

 

[vaboys2ndgen]

im running 14b on my stock fuel 2g..

rewired fuel pump and im running 15psi no problems!


14b pulls 15psi str8 to redline where as the t25 would drop off

 

[upshiftN]

and at 15 psi, the 14b should also be producing slightly more power, not just continuing past the point where the t25 falls off a bit (even at 15 psi as well) correct?

 

[vaboys2ndgen]

and at 15 psi, the 14b should also be producing slightly more power, not just continuing past the point where the t25 falls off a bit (even at 15 psi as well) correct?

correct...

t25 didnt get its name for nothing (t2small)

 

[diablos991]

im running 14b on my stock fuel 2g..

rewired fuel pump and im running 15psi no problems!

But every car is different. Also, your elevation plays a roll in it.

 

[MrBoxx]

and the logger is just a more accurate tool for reading psi, correct?

You can't get too much more accurate than a reputable aftermarket boost gauge tapped into the manifold. You have one, correct?

 

[Justins99GSX]

No the logger is a palmpilot that plugs in through your cars OBDII port to your ecu. It reads different things like RPM, MPH, Timing, injector rates and lots of stuff. When uping the boost it is needed to make sure you are not letting your car get knock or close to detenation. I would recomment the 14b because it will react so much more to mods than the T25. Also the T25 dies off at 5500 rpms

5500????? Thought 4800....

 

[president95]

How many times has this been brought up?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1952644

 

[upshiftN]

ya i have a boost guage, but what else would i need a logger for in my case because i won't be doing any other mods any time soon if at all, and im pretty sure i can pay close attention to my boost guage when upping the boost levels safely to no more than 15 (14.8).

 

[vaboys2ndgen]

logger is to read knock.. to much knock and POP! no more motor..

 

[upshiftN]

not to be fiesty or anything, but how would i be getting more knock if at all with the swap of the 14b from t25?

 

[rice_rocket]

I might as well jump in on this...

You'll have to see how your car behaves. If you're going to leave it all stock, I don't know if you re-wired your pump or not... you can run the 14b fine with this boston weather at a higher psi on a stock system. The car may or may not knock. Unfortunately my logger went with my other car when I bought the Evo, so I can't offer any help with the logging. The new openecu has a logging program that I might look into soon, and I may be able to use it to see timing advance.

Since you are FWD, there are plenty of dynos that you could jump in on in MA when someone is having a dyno day and make some pulls with the wideband. You can't really "ignore" knock, but assuming you're running on the 91 octane fuel I would just check out the wideband and go for a nice 11:1 fuel ratio and call it a day... seeing as you don't have any fuel control either it would just be more of a "check" to see you're not going to be too lean... and if it's still very rich, then you can turn your boost up a little bit, but of course you still have to be careful on the colder days as it will affect your car.

 

[shift_racer]

too much air + not enough fuel = Knock/detonation

Since the 14b outflows the T2slow you will be cramming more air into your enigne at 15psi with the 14b than you would with the t25 (which is also why you get more power).

 

[JayRolla]

I have a evo16g and at 11psi I have no knock. I turned it up to 13psi and had about 24counts of knock at only 13psi. I always hear people 14-15psi and you should be ok. This is not true at all. If you have a larger turbo you push more air at the same psi as you would if you had a small turbo. All cars are different. I say you always want to log when turning up the boost. Also your a 2g so you wont beable to log knock, but you can usually tell if you knocking just by looking at your timing pull.

 

[upshiftN]

with the timing pull (that's one of the options you can look at correct?), what is it that you are actually looking at to tell whether you are knocking and "pulling time" on the palm?? Like are you looking at actual time readings and if the readings are low then you are fine, and if they're high, you are looking at knock? Is that how "pulling time" works?

I guess i'm just basically trying to understand the logger before i buy one, so that i really know what i'm dealing with.

 

[MrBoxx]

When the knock sensor "hears" knock (even if it's only phantom knock) it sends a signal to the ECU, which then retards timing to lower the chance of knock. If you log timing and see a noticeable drop in timing after X rpm's, it's possible that timing is being "pulled" due to knock.

DSMLink is one of the only ways for a 2g to log knock values. It displays knock as degrees of timing retard, not "counts" however. I haven't figured out if it can actually translate it to counts, not that counts are more useful in terms of tuning anyway.