14b on 2g

[Race94]

my mechanic says it will cost me $130 to rebuild my 14b to new specs, is this a good price?
I will also port it, how much should that be?

 

[hostile]

The guys who keep saying buy 16g's are stupid. A 16g is around 300 dollars more than a 14b if you get a good deal on the 14b it will be even cheaper.

The flow on a 16g isn't that much more. You would be better off getting the 14b and getting some nice supporting mods.

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by Blitzed95Eclips
acctually it was. I was able to turn the boost up more with this turbo. So your wrong.

yeah,dude.. you just keep thinking that. if you won't take it from me,go ask an experienced drag racer,or better yet,one of the wisemen,maybe you'll believe them.

 

[Kakoriat]

I've got a 14B turbo sitting in my room that came off my friends 90 Talon TSi AWD, it has about 160k mile on it (I think) and no shaft play. However the exhaust housing looks like crap on the inside. I would like to put this turbo in my car but should I get it rebuilt and how much would it cost to port it?

 

[Enraged78]

Originally posted by allwheelTSI



yeah,dude.. you just keep thinking that. if you won't take it from me,go ask an experienced drag racer,or better yet,one of the wisemen,maybe you'll believe them.

OK.... Let's talk about just raw engineering and compressor flows here for a second. The Garett T-25 OEM turbocharger flows 250CFM @ 15 PSI. This also happens to be the maximum efficency range of the turbocharger. At 16 PSI, the turbocharger blows hot air, which limits its usability in that range. Now, the Mitsubishi TD05-15B flows 420CFM @ 16 PSI. Hmmm. Almost 200CFM more air, and almost 80% more air than the Garett T-25. It also happens that the 14b's efficency range goes to about 20PSI, whicih would generate even more CFM's. Not to mention that the tubine shaft is longer, and doesn't heat the charge air to the same temperature @ 16 PSI like the Garett.

So, how is this a bad upgrade for $150.00?

BTW, this turbo has consistantly run low 12's on multiple cars and setups, and has seen 11's on some extreme setups. Do a search on Phil Beers and see what comes up. Or, keep believing that the 14b/2G combo sucks, and go try running those numbers on a T-25.

Matt.

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by Enraged78


OK.... Let's talk about just raw engineering and compressor flows here for a second. The Garett T-25 OEM turbocharger flows 250CFM @ 15 PSI. This also happens to be the maximum efficency range of the turbocharger. At 16 PSI, the turbocharger blows hot air, which limits its usability in that range. Now, the Mitsubishi TD05-15B flows 420CFM @ 16 PSI. Hmmm. Almost 200CFM more air, and almost 80% more air than the Garett T-25. It also happens that the 14b's efficency range goes to about 20PSI, whicih would generate even more CFM's. Not to mention that the tubine shaft is longer, and doesn't heat the charge air to the same temperature @ 16 PSI like the Garett.

So, how is this a bad upgrade for $150.00?

BTW, this turbo has consistantly run low 12's on multiple cars and setups, and has seen 11's on some extreme setups. Do a search on Phil Beers and see what comes up. Or, keep believing that the 14b/2G combo sucks, and go try running those numbers on a T-25.

Matt.

could you please tell me where i said it was a bad upgrade? or not worth it? whats that? you can't? your post has absolutely nothing to do with what i said,what, are you smoking crack? the only thing i said,was: "dropping almost a full second on your ETs was not due to the 14b. maybe a tiny bit,but thats it."

 

[Goblin]

Originally posted by allwheelTSI



yeah,dude.. you just keep thinking that. if you won't take it from me,go ask an experienced drag racer,or better yet,one of the wisemen,maybe you'll believe them.

What does this have to do with "wisemen"? This is hardly an advance topic

You can easily shave off a second of your e/t with a swap to a ported 14b and an MBC. The T25 flows half the air that a 14b does, so in comparison this is a bigger step up in potential power than a 14b to a 16g in relative terms.

As for experience, yes you can shave off a second, I've done it. Check the mods, intake and ported 14b. Been running in the 14's on pump gas that is a second lower than what a stock 2g runs (mid 15's). How can you tell someone who has DONE IT they are wrong?

All this for a measly $100, yeah, I'd say it's definetly worth it.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here just making my case.

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by Goblin


What does this have to do with "wisemen"? This is hardly an advance topic

You can easily shave off a second of your e/t with a swap to a ported 14b and an MBC. The T25 flows half the air that a 14b does, so in comparison this is a bigger step up in potential power than a 14b to a 16g in relative terms.

As for experience, yes you can shave off a second, I've done it. Check the mods, intake and ported 14b. Been running in the 14's on pump gas that is a second lower than what a stock 2g runs (mid 15's). How can you tell someone who has DONE IT they are wrong?

All this for a measly $100, yeah, I'd say it's definetly worth it.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here just making my case.

once again,this post is way off my point, its not t25 vs. ported 14b with mbc. its 14b vs. t25 obviously both with a MBC. and if yiou can easily do it,go get me some video and timeslips smartass.

 

[Enraged78]

Originally posted by allwheelTSI


once again,this post is way off my point, its not t25 vs. ported 14b with mbc. its 14b vs. t25 obviously both with a MBC. and if yiou can easily do it,go get me some video and timeslips smartass.

What does this have to do with "wisemen"? This is hardly an advance topic

You can easily shave off a second of your e/t with a swap to a ported 14b and an MBC. The T25 flows half the air that a 14b does, so in comparison this is a bigger step up in potential power than a 14b to a 16g in relative terms.


I'm glad someone else said it so I didn't have to. An additional 200 CFM = enough power to drop a full second on a lightly modded 2G. More than one person has reported this. I'm not starting any kind of flame wars here, so this is the last you will hear from me on this. Don't speak about something you have no first hand experience with. It adds NOTHING to the group. I will bring my slips from the next track meet. And I'm looking at 13's, which is TWO full seconds off of my T-25 time.

Matt.

 

[DSM BLUE TURBO]

Wassup everyone, thanks for all the input! I have, however, decided to go with a 20g. But let's keep the topic going!

14b good condition = 150
Home made install kit = 30
(reusing old gaskets)
total =180

Used 16g good condition =400
Used Big16g good condition =475+
Plus instal kit,
RRE hacker/tweaker =200
Total =600+

Ask Bill Cosby about the turbos, He'll tell you the proof is in the pudding.:laugh:

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by allwheelTSI



yeah,dude.. you just keep thinking that. if you won't take it from me,go ask an experienced drag racer,or better yet,one of the wisemen,maybe you'll believe them.

The 14b is more efficient and better turbo for higher boost applications that the T25. The 14b is well worth it depending on price. If you have a T25 and a 14b sitting there, go with the 14b.

Now, feel free to go back to your bench-racing talking about which is better.

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by Tevenor



The 14b is more efficient and better turbo for higher boost applications that the T25. The 14b is well worth it depending on price. If you have a T25 and a 14b sitting there, go with the 14b.

Now, feel free to go back to your bench-racing talking about which is better.

once again,i am not arguing the point of wich is better,i know for a fact that the 14b is the better turbo for our application. i'm running the turbo on my FWD drag project just to see what i can get out of it. the only thing i posted was a statement saying the 14b did not shave almost a full second off of his ET. it was most likely due to varying track conditions and/or driver inconsistency. if he was NT and added a 14b i would understand,but he only upgraded from a t25.

 

[bobo2986]

Originally posted by DSM BLUE TURBO
Wassup everyone, thanks for all the input! I have, however, decided to go with a 20g. But let's keep the topic going!

14b good condition = 150
Home made install kit = 30
(reusing old gaskets)
total =180

Used 16g good condition =400
Used Big16g good condition =475+
Plus instal kit,
RRE hacker/tweaker =200
Total =600+

Ask Bill Cosby about the turbos, He'll tell you the proof is in the pudding.:laugh:

you mentioned being able to make a "home made install kit" for the 14B turbo on a 2G, could you please explain how to do this or show a link that can tell me how? thanks

 

[Slow99x]

This past weekend I ran a 13.5 @ 103 mph on a 14b. My 60 ft was 1.7 and I was running 19psi on 110 octane. This is the first time this car has ever seen the track and has not even been properly tuned. I would say that a 14b will easily put me into the 12s with some more tuning. If you want to know the rest of my setup just go into my profile.

 

[Goblin]

Originally posted by allwheelTSI


once again,this post is way off my point, its not t25 vs. ported 14b with mbc. its 14b vs. t25 obviously both with a MBC. and if yiou can easily do it,go get me some video and timeslips smartass.

I'm not going to waste my time on naysayers who just want to argue. If you don't want to believe me you aren't going to break my heart, people asked I told, you are entittled to "disagree" with fact.

Others can substantiate that it's very possible to drop from 15's to 14's with a 14b it's over twice the CFM and has much better VE.

Have a nice life chump.

 

[nine5raptor]

how many of you arguing against the 14b upgrade have actually done this upgrade, hmmm??

t25-19psi-199whp
14b-14-15psi-234 whp

both measured same day, on a g-tech with the same settings (3660lbs). good enough for ya?

 

[Got Grip]

Okay, I went back to the track and have a true comparison. These runs are seperated by almost 1 month but everything was just about equal. I ran the same boost, same octane, same weight and the weather was very similiar. The run's were at the same track and at the same time of night also. The ONLY change was the turbo. Here are the results:

T25 Best Run (3/21):
13.67 @ 98.9mph
1.858 60'

14B Best Run (4/18):
13.17 @ 103 mph
1.809 60'

I picked up half a second for under $250 total cost.

I know you are going to say I ran a 13.48 on the T25 so the improvement is not that great, but I changed a couple things for that run to go for a good time, the 13.67 is the best run with all equal conditions. The 60' is better because the turbo pulls that much harder in 1st gear, honestly, I was driving like crap last night so I don't know how I pulled off even that good of a 60'.

 

[UNFORGIVEN GSX]

I love my 14B turbo. Freaking night and day difference. You will see that your power band shifts from low/mid end to top end. This turbo astounds me with the amount of power it can produce. Anybody who tells you this turbo is not capable of running 100+mph traps or unable to break into the 12's is flat out wrong. It has been done many times. Now it may not have been done with pump gas or full weight, but it has been done. If you want a cheaper upgrade, then go with the 14B. It requires less supporting mods and less money to install and you will still get the performance increase outta it that you are looking for.


Additional mods after the turbo install will only continue to extract the hp out of the 14B and get you ready for that larger turbo down the line. After you are done with it, you can put in a 16G or some other turbo, maybe even bigger than that.


Rob

 

[98TsiAWD]

I just got a ported 14b today. I am going to install it within a couple weeks, Ill post my feelings on the 14b/2g setup when Im done..

 

[Smokin GST]

Originally posted by nine5raptor
how many of you arguing against the 14b upgrade have actually done this upgrade, hmmm??

t25-19psi-199whp
14b-14-15psi-234 whp

both measured same day, on a g-tech with the same settings (3660lbs). good enough for ya?

i would never trust a G-Tech to be accurate. you want a 1/4 time, go to the track. want a hp number, go to a dyno.

regardless... the 14b will do a lot more than a T-25. i'm going to have a 6-bolt w/ a 14b in my 97 GS-T soon, and i ran a 14.89 w/ a 2.53 60'. that was shifting out at 6000rpm (tranny = damn near dead). we'll see what kind of times i turn over with the 14b.

 

[paperboy]

just finished my 14b swap a few days back, night and day diff. total of $200 install cost. pulls all the way to redline and no press. drop.
best money spent so far!
-also if you have it off, port the hell out of it. had to take mine out twice to kill boost creep.

 

[98TsiAWD]

Originally posted by paperboy
just finished my 14b swap a few days back, night and day diff. total of $200 install cost. pulls all the way to redline and no press. drop.
best money spent so far!
-also if you have it off, port the hell out of it. had to take mine out twice to kill boost creep.

Port the hell out of it where? Just gasket match the wastegate and exhaust inlet?

 

[AWDTireSmokeTsi]

ok trashing the 14b... My best time I ran with my mods (minimal) and sotck t-25 was a 14.85, I put a ported 14b in and ended up gained 3 secs.For the money you can go run. You can boost more on a 14b and it has better top end power. For the money, 14b has a lot of potential.

 

[brcewane]

I'm considering going with a 14B as well... here are the CFM numbers off of Vfaq at 15psi:

T25 - TDO4-9B-6CM2 265 CFM
14B - TDO5H-14B-6CM2 405 CFM
16G - TDO5H-16G-7CM2 505 CFM
20G - TDO6H-20G-14CM2 650 CFM

And the max HP outputs:
TD05-14B [275-300hp @ 21 psi]
TD05-16G (small) [345-365hp @ 22 psi]
TD06-16G (large) [365-385hp @ 22 psi]
TD06-20G [430-450hp @ 22 psi]
T25 (stock 2nd gen) [235-250hp @ ?? psi]
T3 (super 60)/T2.5 hybrid [265-280hp @ ?? psi]
T3 (super 60)/T2.8 hybrid [270-320hp @ ?? psi]

From reading these numbers and talking to some people who have made the switch, the bang for the buck on switching to 14B and then selling you T25 on ebay comes close to a break even..

so it's a no brainer IMO

plus now you have all the hardware to replace it with something bigger down the road too if you want to.

 

[AWDTireSmokeTsi]

ported 14b = small 16g....or pretty close