WTF ? Prepping for paint

[ishnish]

Sounds good guys. Where can I go to get these supplies?

So far I think I need:

-wax remover
-220 and 400 (and maybe 600) grit sand paper (is wet sand a different type of sand paper?)
-basecoat (barcelona red pearl)
-clear coat
-high build primer

Any suggestions on brands or types?
Also, should I invest in some sort of sander?

And WES, what do you mean when you say to allow to flash between coats?

I wouldn't sand past the original paint, it's on there really good from the factory and will provide a nice base for the primer. Just get all that primer off and take out any flaws you see in the original paint.

Sounds like a plan man. So when you say "scuff" it, I should just brush the surface up a bit?

 

[WES_393]

Flashing between coats means the paint is no longer "wet" looking. If you spray wet paint onto wet paint, you'll get sags and runs. Flash time is usually around 10 minutes at 70 degrees. Clear coat is a little harder to tell when it flashes since good clear always looks wet, so I usually just give it about 10-15 minutes before spraying it again. What I meant by scuffing is just sanding. You want to make sure the previous surface is roughed up before adding a new one. This helps the paint stick since it's not trying to grab a polished surface. You don't want to sand the basecoat before clearcoat though. Basecoat need to be smooth and glassy before sealing it with clear.

You can get most of those things at Auto parts stores. Get Duplicolor primer, not the off-name stuff. The solvents used in cheap brand primer are very harsh and don't work well with quality paint. However, I would get the clear coat and basecoat only from the website I showed you. They match factory colors very well and the prices aren't bad for what your getting. Two aerosol cans of basecoat and two cans of clear would be enough to do both side skirts. 3 of each if your sloppy like me .

Here's how well Automotive touchup matches paint. This car is Minden Silver Pearl which has metallic, pearl, AND blue flake in it. Very hard to reproduce perfectly! Yet, the fender in this picture matches the hood great other than the unbuffed clearcoat.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[ktgurl87]

"Scuff" means to just rough up the surface a little bit so the new primer and so on have something to adhere, or grab, onto. When he says "flash" I can only assume he means for the paint to flash dry, which, depending on the paint, is a window of time after you spray it. It's the time that it takes for the paint to get 'tacky' but not dry. Atleast that's what I'm thinking he's talking about.

 

[ishnish]

Flashing between coats means the paint is no longer "wet" looking. If you spray wet paint onto wet paint, you'll get sags and runs. Flash time is usually around 10 minutes at 70 degrees. Clear coat is a little harder to tell when it flashes since good clear always looks wet, so I usually just give it about 10-15 minutes before spraying it again. What I meant by scuffing is just sanding. You want to make sure the previous surface is roughed up before adding a new one. This helps the paint stick since it's not trying to grab a polished surface. You don't want to sand the basecoat before clearcoat though. Basecoat need to be smooth and glassy before sealing it with clear.

You can get most of those things at Auto parts stores. Get Duplicolor primer, not the off-name stuff. The solvents used in cheap brand primer are very harsh and don't work well with quality paint. However, I would get the clear coat and basecoat only from the website I showed you. They match factory colors very well and the prices aren't bad for what your getting. Two aerosol cans of basecoat and two cans of clear would be enough to do both side skirts. 3 of each if your sloppy like me .

Here's how well Automotive touchup matches paint. This car is Minden Silver Pearl which has metallic, pearl, AND blue flake in it. Very hard to reproduce perfectly! Yet, the fender in this picture matches the hood great other than the unbuffed clearcoat.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Woah that looks nice! definitely sold me on that website there .

Okay so I think I'm gonna get 2 cans of "12 oz Basecoat Color" and 2 cans of "12 oz Aerosol High Gloss Clear Coat"

Are you sure I should get the duplicolor primer instead of the "12 oz. Easy sanding automotive GREY" primer from that website you recommended?

They also have the "2 oz Prep Solvent" wax and grease remover and sandpaper packs. I'm thinking if I should just order all of this from them to make the task easier.

Looks like I won't be able to do this tomorrow though but I don't mind .

"Scuff" means to just rough up the surface a little bit so the new primer and so on have something to adhere, or grab, onto. When he says "flash" I can only assume he means for the paint to flash dry, which, depending on the paint, is a window of time after you spray it. It's the time that it takes for the paint to get 'tacky' but not dry. Atleast that's what I'm thinking he's talking about.

And you'd be correct

 

[WES_393]

The grease and wax remover, the sandpaper, and whatnot would be cheaper to get at a parts store. But if you have the cash for the primer Automotive Touchup sells, by all means go for it! The less you mix and match brands of paint, the better the end result will be.

 

[ishnish]

Thanks for the heads up WES. Is the same sandpaper used for wet sanding? Or is there a special type of sand paper for wet sanding? As in, do you just get the normal sand paper and wet it? Or is there a whole different type to get?

I'm gonna order the other things right now though! Including the primer!

Now that the parts are done with, I think I will summarize the procedure and you can criticize and tell me if all is correct for when I'm ready to execute =)

 

[68442]

I used cheap nason base and upol urethane clear. I'm not sure how much your going to paint but doing a whole car in a booth/garage a air supply or good mask is mandatory. Here is my father in laws laser, 1st pic is the factory paint/primer that was good enough to primer over down to 180, 2nd is 2 coats of epoxy, in between were high build and several grits of wet sanding with guide coat to 400. The red was water so it took a lot to cover, clear went on awsome and besides some trash here and there turned out smooth and never wet sanded the clear.

Good luck, hope to see your results. I'm wanting to get two cars painted this summer, I like dsm's they are small compared to old muscle cars.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/3m/3m101-5.aspx

http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[ishnish]

I used cheap nason base and upol urethane clear. I'm not sure how much your going to paint but doing a whole car in a booth/garage a air supply or good mask is mandatory. Here is my father in laws laser, 1st pic is the factory paint/primer that was good enough to primer over down to 180, 2nd is 2 coats of epoxy, in between were high build and several grits of wet sanding with guide coat to 400. The red was water so it took a lot to cover, clear went on awsome and besides some trash here and there turned out smooth and never wet sanded the clear.

Good luck, hope to see your results. I'm wanting to get two cars painted this summer, I like dsm's they are small compared to old muscle cars.

Dude that looks amazing!!

I hope I do half as good a job as you guys! I'm just doing the skirts for now (starting out small). If all goes well, I will attempt to replace my front bumper and do that as well. Seriously though good job!

 

[WES_393]

The sandpaper will tell you whether its wet or dry sand. 99% of the sandpaper in auto parts stores is wet sand since it's pretty routine to wet sand cars.

 

[ishnish]

But I do need both went and dry correct? Few sheets of each?


Alright so I got the procedure written out. Tell me what you think WES:

-Clean with grease and wax remover
-Sand with 400 grit sand paper removing primer
-Continue sanding with 400 grit to scuff original paint
-Clean again with grease and wax remover
-Apply "Acrylic Lacquer Spray Paint Primer" primer
-Wet sand with 400 grit (might use 500 or 600 grit) until smooth to the touch
-Clean again with grease and wax remover
-Spray basecoat color (2 ligh coats then 1 medium). First spray light coat (wait about 10 minutes), spray light coat (wait another ten minutes), spray last medium wet coat
-Allow basecoat to dry for an hour or so
-Spray clearcoat (2 light coats then 1 medium). First spray light coat (wait about 10 minutes), spray light coat (wait another ten minutes), spray last medium wet coat
-Let dry for at least 24 hours
-Buff with polishing compound
-Enjoy a cold....water (since I don't drink)

WES, for step 6, I know you posted that you should repeat the process to remove chips and such by wet sanding it back down until smooth. Did you mean to wet sand all that primer down and re-primer again until smooth? Or re-primer and wet sand again until smooth?

 

[WES_393]

You got it down! Be sure to let the primer dry completely before sanding or it will clump. And it would also be good to pick up some tack cloth for cleaning. It's basically a towel that won't leave anything behind like lint or fuzz. But other than that, follow those steps closely and you'll be good!

As for sandpaper, get nothing but wet. A few sheets of each (3-4) will be enough to sand it all.

 

[ishnish]

Okay so say I still have chips. I do wetsand all the primer off and re-primer again? Just making sure. When I do clean with grease and wax remover, do I just pour it on the skirts or do I rub it in? As for the tack cloth, I think I saw it on that website link you sent me. Do I just use that to wipe off the grease and wax remover? Or do I let the remover sit and dry and then just use the tack cloth to wipe down any loose dust or something?

Okay all wet sand paper but I am dry sanding in the first step of sanding as you probably already read

 

[WES_393]

Yes, sand the primer off so that the primer thats left is still in the chips. The goal is to eventually get the chips up to the same level as the rest of the material. Like is 68442's picture, you should end up with a blotchy looking surface. I would use 1 tack cloth to wet with grease and wax remover and rub the skirts with, and 1 to keep dry for dusting before spraying the basecoat.

 

[ishnish]

Ahhh I see now! Okay so revised:

-Clean with grease and wax remover and tack cloth (wet the tack cloth with grease and wax remover and rub onto skirts)
-Sand with 400 grit sand paper removing primer
-Continue sanding with 400 grit to scuff original paint
-Clean again with grease and wax remover and tack cloth (wet the tack cloth with grease and wax remover and rub onto skirts)
-Apply "Acrylic Lacquer Spray Paint Primer" primer
-Let dry
-Wet sand with 400 grit (might use 500 or 600 grit) until smooth to the touch (repeat process if necessary)
-Clean again with grease and wax remover and tack cloth (wet the tack cloth with grease and wax remover and rub onto skirts)
-Let dry and dust off with dry tack cloth
-Spray basecoat color (2 ligh coats then 1 medium). First spray light coat (wait about 10 minutes), spray light coat (wait another ten minutes), spray last medium wet coat
-Allow basecoat to dry for an hour or so
-Spray clearcoat (2 light coats then 1 medium). First spray light coat (wait about 10 minutes), spray light coat (wait another ten minutes), spray last medium coat
-Let dry for at least 24 hours
-Buff with polishing compound
-Enjoy a glass of cold....water (since I don't drink)

 

[WES_393]

Bingo. Be sure to post up pics when your done!

 

[ishnish]

Yes sir you got it! Definitely will keep you and the others posted! Thanks again man! What a productive night!

Now we just wait for my supplies..

 

[KeelesKustome]

paint faq's - CB7Tuner Forums

This link the pictures work, I don't know why the dsm sites they have stopped working. I provided this information to 12 different old and new car forums, trying to help fix all the mis-information out their.

Time to open your mind, their are many different ways to skin this cat.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Their is no exact method that is wrong or right. As every condition changes at every moment such as air temp, humidity, air pressure, tools being used may also differ, preventing easier solutions.
With this in mind take whats been given in the post of mine and think outside the box. If you don't have access to an air compressor or a garmat downdraft booth, Figure out what you do have and how it can benifit your situation. A closed garage can turn into a area where you drape the walls with plastic sheeting, then you take a water hose and spray the sheeting and the floor to kill all dust particals, squeegee the water off the floor, set up your stands, rather that be metal work stands or saw horses, wrap them with paper to keep any dirt or dust from landing on your wet paint, add a fan at a door to suck the cloud of fumes out and always where a resperator.
This is a example of thinking outside the box.

Remeber when painting you need some sort of air-drier to keep water from condensating into your paint, this has dier consequences.

I didn't read in detail what everyone else wrote, but here goes.

1st off you need to take a heat gun and a cold rag to that one side skirt that is rolled in, keep heating it then puting a cold wet rag on it, ( applying preasure to straighten it, doe this until it's memory cells return to it's normal form.

2nd. All that primer needs to be removed! It's over un prepped shiney paint. In time it will all flake off if you do not do so.
To do this, your going to use a orbital DA air sander with 180 grit, if this isn't available, *think outside the box to occomplish the same task*
In doing so more than likely you'll remove most the factory paint as well, this is unavoidable, but not a big deal.
Once cleaned and smooth no carpet feeling to it. Buy a high quality 2k primer, mix accordingly to my instructions in the links. A good idea is to use a flex additive in the primer on these parts. If you do so it will never crack and you won't need flex additive in your selaer paint or clear.

After this is occomplished dry sand the peices with 320 and guide coat *as mentioned in my post* Once all the orange peel is removed, re-guide coat and wet sand with 500 grit untill smooth and ready to be painted or sealed and painted, your choice, Theirs no wrong or right way.
At this point you will take comet or something similar, with a red scuff pad from 3m and water, your generously scub the parts that are prepped to clean any forin contamentants on them, Spray clean with water.

A single stage white would be ideal for these peieces as they get tons of road rash and this would help protect them.
My links tells you how to spray.

If these were braught to a shop like mine, it would cost roughly $225 to have professiionally done with a lifetime warrenty.
If you choose to do that below me post VVV,
Your in a totally different world and can throw everything I've told you out the window, I'd recomend to anyone to not go chemical, this is comming from me who paints cars from 6 in the morning till 5-or 9pm every night. This isn't a hobby for me, this is experience in what works the best/ quickest to get the best outcome available.

 

[bryanwheat]

A chemical stripper that works good on plastic stuff like that is the citrus stripper from walmart. I've used it on tons of plastic with no bad effects. It comes in a plastic bottle. It works on enamel and urethane paints. It is way less toxic than all the other strippers on the market.

 

[ishnish]

Keeles, wow I really cant thank you enough for chiming in with tons of info. Thanks a bunch. Well so far I've already ordered all my supplies but I'll make sure to follow along with the correct instructions. WES has been a huge help and it seems to me that he's got me on the right track.

Bryanwheat, hey thanks a bunch for the advice. I might just sand the stuff off just because I've already got most of the supplies and am just waiting for them now. Thanks nonetheless though!

 

[DSM1G90]

BW, where do you get that stripper at "WallyWorld" .. it'd be in the paint section and what's it named?

Love that paint job on that Laser - I need one as well, but need some body work done first along with some front end body re-tweeking. Guy who had the car before me must have done a few pancakes along with a bumper push making things look a bit unsquare.

thx-DSM

 

[bryanwheat]

BW, where do you get that stripper at "WallyWorld" .. it'd be in the paint section and what's it named?

Love that paint job on that Laser - I need one as well, but need some body work done first along with some front end body re-tweeking. Guy who had the car before me must have done a few pancakes along with a bumper push making things look a bit unsquare.

thx-DSM

IT is called citrus strip. It is in the house painting supplies. It is like 5 bucks for a bottle.

Keeles, wow I really cant thank you enough for chiming in with tons of info. Thanks a bunch. Well so far I've already ordered all my supplies but I'll make sure to follow along with the correct instructions. WES has been a huge help and it seems to me that he's got me on the right track.

Bryanwheat, hey thanks a bunch for the advice. I might just sand the stuff off just because I've already got most of the supplies and am just waiting for them now. Thanks nonetheless though!

You will spend quite a bit of time sanding that thick primer off. I would just pick up a bottle and brush it on. IT will literally peel the paint right off. IT will really help you with the paint in the lettering. You will have a hard time sanding that out. You can also use acetone if the primer is rattle can. It will soften it up enough to scrape it off with a putty knife. Than from there you can wipe the residue off with a rag and acetone.

 

[ishnish]

You will spend quite a bit of time sanding that thick primer off. I would just pick up a bottle and brush it on. IT will literally peel the paint right off. IT will really help you with the paint in the lettering. You will have a hard time sanding that out. You can also use acetone if the primer is rattle can. It will soften it up enough to scrape it off with a putty knife. Than from there you can wipe the residue off with a rag and acetone.

I didn't think about that actually. Especially the lettering. I'm gonna stop by the local walmart and take a look see if I can find this citrus strip. Thank you sir =)
And you're positive it won't harm anything?

 

[importracr317]

Some advice about wetsanding - stay away from creases or seams. Your hand has a natural tendancy to push a little harder on seam and bodylines so you end up sanding right through your clear and paint very quickly. Lots of pro will tell you to lightly buff around the seams, but otherwise leave the paint alone within 1" of a body line.

With all the creases and junk on my Bomex kit, I ended up fixing a lot of "rub through" mistakes....good luck.

 

[DSM1G90]

If you can get some methelyne chloride, main ingredient in paint stripper, that'll eat any paint off of any surface to bare..

Thx "BW" for the tip ... got a lot of "WallyWorlds" around here....

-DSM

 

[ishnish]

Some advice about wetsanding - stay away from creases or seams. Your hand has a natural tendancy to push a little harder on seam and bodylines so you end up sanding right through your clear and paint very quickly. Lots of pro will tell you to lightly buff around the seams, but otherwise leave the paint alone within 1" of a body line.

With all the creases and junk on my Bomex kit, I ended up fixing a lot of "rub through" mistakes....good luck.

Thanks for the tip importracr317. That advice will definitely come in handy

If you can get some methelyne chloride, main ingredient in paint stripper, that'll eat any paint off of any surface to bare..

Thx "BW" for the tip ... got a lot of "WallyWorlds" around here....

-DSM

That's not really what I want though. I think I'm just gonna try to scuff up the paint so the primer has something to stick to. At least, this is what I've been told so far from everyone else.