WTF ? Prepping for paint

[bryanwheat]

I didn't think about that actually. Especially the lettering. I'm gonna stop by the local walmart and take a look see if I can find this citrus strip. Thank you sir =)
And you're positive it won't harm anything?

I've used it on timing covers, interior panels and all kinds of plastic, it should be perfectly safe for that.

 

[ishnish]

Sounds good. Thanks a bunch Bryan

 

[ishnish]

Alright guys so I think I'm gonna get all my supplies today (took forever!!). I started wet sanding with 400 grit sandpaper and I honestly don't know if I should keep going or not. Here's a pic of what I've got so far on just the fender cap. It may look really grey but I did get a lot of the primer off cause it's a bit more greener in person. It also feels extremely smooth now. Idk if I should keep going because, as you can see, I took off the original paint in some areas.

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[WES_393]

If it feels/looks good than just shoot it with one last coat of primer, wet sand the primer to break the surface, and then paint!

 

[ishnish]

Thanks WES! I never shot it with primer in the first place though . So does that mean I just do one coat of primer?

 

[WES_393]

No I would definitely still get a few layers of primer in the rock chips/scrapes. Once you shoot a layer of primer on and sand it off, you'll notice the imperfections. The point of primer-sand-primer-sand is to fill the imperfection with primer so they don't show with the new paint. A color like yours will make imperfections obvious compared to a color such as white or silver.\

But from the looks of it, you won't need to do a whole ton of primer and sanding. A few coats should do the trick.

Have you considered covering the chrysler symbol with a small amount of bondo? I never really liked mine so I considered it a few times. Not saying it looks bad, I just personally don't like the pentastar on my Mitsubishi. Just something to consider.

 

[TallestHERETIC]

Flashing between coats means the paint is no longer "wet" looking. If you spray wet paint onto wet paint, you'll get sags and runs. Flash time is usually around 10 minutes at 70 degrees. Clear coat is a little harder to tell when it flashes since good clear always looks wet, so I usually just give it about 10-15 minutes before spraying it again. What I meant by scuffing is just sanding. You want to make sure the previous surface is roughed up before adding a new one. This helps the paint stick since it's not trying to grab a polished surface. You don't want to sand the basecoat before clearcoat though. Basecoat need to be smooth and glassy before sealing it with clear.

You can get most of those things at Auto parts stores. Get Duplicolor primer, not the off-name stuff. The solvents used in cheap brand primer are very harsh and don't work well with quality paint. However, I would get the clear coat and basecoat only from the website I showed you. They match factory colors very well and the prices aren't bad for what your getting. Two aerosol cans of basecoat and two cans of clear would be enough to do both side skirts. 3 of each if your sloppy like me .

Here's how well Automotive touchup matches paint. This car is Minden Silver Pearl which has metallic, pearl, AND blue flake in it. Very hard to reproduce perfectly! Yet, the fender in this picture matches the hood great other than the unbuffed clearcoat.

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I knew i wasn't going crazy when I said my GSX had a light coat of blue paint! i have that color trim also! It is VERY difficult to match it using touch up paint. Believe me, I've tried! Its pretty much a custom color.

 

[untouchablecc]

Im painting my entire car tomorrow and i have spent more on the side skirts and bumper then any part of the car. I had to use 150 grit and a DA sander to get the stone chips out of my side skirts. There was that much road rash. I then went over the entire thing with 320. I am using Sealer instead of primer so i will see how it goes. The letters are the worst to sand out because it takes for ever.

 

[ishnish]

No I would definitely still get a few layers of primer in the rock chips/scrapes. Once you shoot a layer of primer on and sand it off, you'll notice the imperfections. The point of primer-sand-primer-sand is to fill the imperfection with primer so they don't show with the new paint. A color like yours will make imperfections obvious compared to a color such as white or silver.\

But from the looks of it, you won't need to do a whole ton of primer and sanding. A few coats should do the trick.

Have you considered covering the chrysler symbol with a small amount of bondo? I never really liked mine so I considered it a few times. Not saying it looks bad, I just personally don't like the pentastar on my Mitsubishi. Just something to consider.

Okay cool that's what I though so I'll just do some light coats of primer.

You know I actually have considered it. Especially after I accidentally sanded a bit too much off of it. Mostly though because it's really hard to sand that area. Maybe I'll do it. I haven't used bondo ever though. Is bonding all I need? Cause there are different types of bondo from from what I saw at the store.

Im painting my entire car tomorrow and i have spent more on the side skirts and bumper then any part of the car. I had to use 150 grit and a DA sander to get the stone chips out of my side skirts. There was that much road rash. I then went over the entire thing with 320. I am using Sealer instead of primer so i will see how it goes. The letters are the worst to sand out because it takes for ever.

Tell me about it! The letters are the one thing I can't stop thinking about. I'm so scared to approach it.

 

[ishnish]

WES, fml bro . This is getting EXTREMELY aggravating. I decided to get some of that citris strip and use it on the lettering of my skirts. I got a pic of one of the skirts. It took me like an HOUR to get as much of the primer off that I possibly could. I had no clue how to sand inside the letters I got all of the primer off I think but when I took macro shots of it, it doesn't look smooth. I have no idea how to approach this. PITA!! You can see how well the citris strip helped though! If I didn't have that stuff, I honestly don't know where I'd be.

The first picture was taken with the flash mode on. That's why you can definitely see the details and imperfections

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[WES_393]

So your trying to get all the old primer off, correct? I would step up to a heavier grit if your using around 400. You are wet sanding, right? I would get something around 200 grit wet sandpaper and really start burning that stuff off. Then once you start getting down to original paint, switch to something lighter to even out the texture before priming. Sorry it's taking you so long man, the previous owner must have really sprayed that stuff on! If the side skirts weren't plastic, I know of some chemicals that could eat the ugly off Oprah in minutes. But I fear they would damage the plastic so the best thing to do is tough it out, get some heavier grit, and go to work on it.

Also, getting in the letters is going to be difficult. I would suggest just making sure they are clean and dry before priming. And don't worry about the imperfections now. The skirts are going to look like ass, but only until your done priming. That's the only time you need to worry about being a perfectionist. For now, focus on getting that crap off so the primer has a nice clean surface to hug. If anything, Walmart sells a little Black & Decker tool called a Mouse. It's a vibrating sander that works pretty good for how cheap it is (around $30). Slap some 220 grit on there and you would be done sanding in a few hours. But wet sanding with something around 200 like I mentioned will work just as well so I'd advise trying that first before spending cash on a one time use tool.

 

[ishnish]

So your trying to get all the old primer off, correct? I would step up to a heavier grit if your using around 400. You are wet sanding, right? I would get something around 200 grit wet sandpaper and really start burning that stuff off. Then once you start getting down to original paint, switch to something lighter to even out the texture before priming. Sorry it's taking you so long man, the previous owner must have really sprayed that stuff on! If the side skirts weren't plastic, I know of some chemicals that could eat the ugly off Oprah in minutes. But I fear they would damage the plastic so the best thing to do is tough it out, get some heavier grit, and go to work on it.

Also, getting in the letters is going to be difficult. I would suggest just making sure they are clean and dry before priming. And don't worry about the imperfections now. The skirts are going to look like ass, but only until your done priming. That's the only time you need to worry about being a perfectionist. For now, focus on getting that crap off so the primer has a nice clean surface to hug. If anything, Walmart sells a little Black & Decker tool called a Mouse. It's a vibrating sander that works pretty good for how cheap it is (around $30). Slap some 220 grit on there and you would be done sanding in a few hours. But wet sanding with something around 200 like I mentioned will work just as well so I'd advise trying that first before spending cash on a one time use tool.

Thanks for the advice WES. Yes I am getting the primer off. Well at least I think I am. When I run, for example the door cap, under some water while I sand, you can really see the primer coming off. But when it dries, it seems as if the primer comes back. Hard to explain but here's a pic to show what I mean:

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Do you see towards the right is all the primer and the left you can really see how much primer I took off? But when it dries (the dried areas in the picture), it seems like I didn't do much . I didn't go any further though because I could see the paint slightly coming off. Plus, it feels REALLY smooth so I think I'm on the right track.

The 400 grit is doing me fine actually. I did a door cap today before it got dark and it went really well. I don't think there is a need for 200 grit but maybe it would make things easier.

The sanding of the skirts in general isn't the hard part. It's the lettering that's a PITA! The rest is actually very easy but requires patience. Well I'm relieved to know that it's normal the the skirts are going to look like crud only until after the primer. I really hope I can get the letters smoother. I'll keep this all updated. Hopefully I finish sanding tomorrow if time allows it.

 

[KeelesKustome]

In that picture the primer is gone, When you sand clearcoat, it does not stay clear, it becomes milky thus giving a dull appearance once dry.

 

[ishnish]

In that picture the primer is gone, When you sand clearcoat, it does not stay clear, it becomes milky thus giving a dull appearance once dry.

Oh good that is great to know Keeles! Thanks man. I seriously thought I wasn't getting enough of the primer off and when I was, it started getting white so I knew that wasn't the paint but rather the body.

 

[zArlen]

Coming from someone that does body work for a living...

You're doing well! You seem to be learning and getting the job done by the looks of the piece you posted a picture of. If the side skirts are just as nice as that piece then you should be ready for primer. Although I will say... at our shop we don't bother wet sanding. It's not entirely necessary really. We don't even sand all the way down to 400 grit. Usually we'll stop at 320 grit before we prime. Then just lay down 2-3 coats of primer (assuming you're spraying with an actual gun and not a can). Spray your first coat... wait for the gloss to go away, when it looks dull it's ready for another coat... usually it only takes around 10 min. Repeat that two more times for 3 coats of primer and let it dry. After that... sand most of the orange peel/texture off with 320 grit. You don't need to remove it all with 320! After that use 400 grit to get any remaining orange peel out of your primer. Finally, quickly run over it with 600 grit paper to get a nice smooth finish. You're local paint supplier most likely sells a powdered guide coat. It's really handy for sanding between 400 and 600. After you sand with 400 apply your guide coat... it'll fill all of the scratched and imperfections. Then sand with 600 until the 400 scratches are all gone (the guide coat lets you see the scratches as you sand). When all of your pieces are sanded with 600, find a clean place to paint the parts, use wax and grease remover, wipe it on wet and then use another cloth to dry it off. Follow that by wiping the parts down with a tack cloth and you're ready for base. Spray 2-3 coats of base coat, using the same visual method as the primer (wait until it looks dull but don't let it dry). Depending on the paint, more or less coats may be needed for proper and even coverage. Read the specs on the base and clear to see how soon to spray the clear, or ask your paint supplier.

BTW, if you any trouble with materials or the proper technique/process. Find your local paint supplier. They can sell you all of the paper, wax and grease remover, paint, tack cloths, and clear - as well as answer any further questions.

And don't cheap out on sand paper! 3M Gold or sanding products by Norton are pretty good usually. 3M Gold being my favorite. Some cheap papers use silicone and other materials to make the paper "last longer"... materials that will contaminate your parts and ruin your paint job, go figure.

Sorry this is really long winded. Hope this helps!

 

[SupremeDsm]

Coming from someone that does body work for a living...

You're doing well! You seem to be learning and getting the job done by the looks of the piece you posted a picture of. If the side skirts are just as nice as that piece then you should be ready for primer. Although I will say... at our shop we don't bother wet sanding. It's not entirely necessary really. We don't even sand all the way down to 400 grit. Usually we'll stop at 320 grit before we prime. Then just lay down 2-3 coats of primer (assuming you're spraying with an actual gun and not a can). Spray your first coat... wait for the gloss to go away, when it looks dull it's ready for another coat... usually it only takes around 10 min. Repeat that two more times for 3 coats of primer and let it dry. After that... sand most of the orange peel/texture off with 320 grit. You don't need to remove it all with 320! After that use 400 grit to get any remaining orange peel out of your primer. Finally, quickly run over it with 600 grit paper to get a nice smooth finish. You're local paint supplier most likely sells a powdered guide coat. It's really handy for sanding between 400 and 600. After you sand with 400 apply your guide coat... it'll fill all of the scratched and imperfections. Then sand with 600 until the 400 scratches are all gone (the guide coat lets you see the scratches as you sand). When all of your pieces are sanded with 600, find a clean place to paint the parts, use wax and grease remover, wipe it on wet and then use another cloth to dry it off. Follow that by wiping the parts down with a tack cloth and you're ready for base. Spray 2-3 coats of base coat, using the same visual method as the primer (wait until it looks dull but don't let it dry). Depending on the paint, more or less coats may be needed for proper and even coverage. Read the specs on the base and clear to see how soon to spray the clear, or ask your paint supplier.

BTW, if you any trouble with materials or the proper technique/process. Find your local paint supplier. They can sell you all of the paper, wax and grease remover, paint, tack cloths, and clear - as well as answer any further questions.

And don't cheap out on sand paper! 3M Gold or sanding products by Norton are pretty good usually. 3M Gold being my favorite. Some cheap papers use silicone and other materials to make the paper "last longer"... materials that will contaminate your parts and ruin your paint job, go figure.

Sorry this is really long winded. Hope this helps!

I would have to agree. I as well do body work for a living and was wondering why all these people are advising a wet sand on primer. Really? Its pointless and unneeded. My body shop never ever wet sands primer. And the paint comes out looking amazing considering we are a dealership and body shop.

 

[KeelesKustome]

First off: sanding beyond 180 grit before priming will lead to the primer floating over the surface of the scratches, eventually leading to shrink up and sand scratches behind the paint, 2k Primer, including uv primer is designed to only be sprayed over 180 grit for best adhesion and filling purposes, anything finer will also lead to un-appealing chips.
We wetsand because it makes for a cleaner and better professional job. Every situation is different and every vehicle does not get a full blown wetsand job, example this van that was repaired I did not wetsand, but I did have to fix and match the stipes back to the other side.

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But for a vehicle such as these, the process is just wht I've given you.

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[KeelesKustome]

You can see the nice smooth sheens from where the 79 camaro was wetsanded down to 600 grit.

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this helmet was not wetsanded, because I planed on buffing it,

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This hood on the other hand I stopped wetsanding with 320 grit, because I planned on sealing it and having multiple layers, even then it didn't need to be buffed.

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even these get wetsanded to 500 grit beofre painting,

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For durability, on harleys, I wetsand them with 320 grit, seal them and paint with the airbrush, i then go back re-wetsand them with 600 grit and reclear them.

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I spent the time to show a few of my projects to you so that you can see, The advice I'm giving is on Q. This is not just a hobby for me, it's what I do everyday.

 

[ishnish]

Coming from someone that does body work for a living...

You're doing well! You seem to be learning and getting the job done by the looks of the piece you posted a picture of. If the side skirts are just as nice as that piece then you should be ready for primer. Although I will say... at our shop we don't bother wet sanding. It's not entirely necessary really. We don't even sand all the way down to 400 grit. Usually we'll stop at 320 grit before we prime. Then just lay down 2-3 coats of primer (assuming you're spraying with an actual gun and not a can). Spray your first coat... wait for the gloss to go away, when it looks dull it's ready for another coat... usually it only takes around 10 min. Repeat that two more times for 3 coats of primer and let it dry. After that... sand most of the orange peel/texture off with 320 grit. You don't need to remove it all with 320! After that use 400 grit to get any remaining orange peel out of your primer. Finally, quickly run over it with 600 grit paper to get a nice smooth finish. You're local paint supplier most likely sells a powdered guide coat. It's really handy for sanding between 400 and 600. After you sand with 400 apply your guide coat... it'll fill all of the scratched and imperfections. Then sand with 600 until the 400 scratches are all gone (the guide coat lets you see the scratches as you sand). When all of your pieces are sanded with 600, find a clean place to paint the parts, use wax and grease remover, wipe it on wet and then use another cloth to dry it off. Follow that by wiping the parts down with a tack cloth and you're ready for base. Spray 2-3 coats of base coat, using the same visual method as the primer (wait until it looks dull but don't let it dry). Depending on the paint, more or less coats may be needed for proper and even coverage. Read the specs on the base and clear to see how soon to spray the clear, or ask your paint supplier.

BTW, if you any trouble with materials or the proper technique/process. Find your local paint supplier. They can sell you all of the paper, wax and grease remover, paint, tack cloths, and clear - as well as answer any further questions.

And don't cheap out on sand paper! 3M Gold or sanding products by Norton are pretty good usually. 3M Gold being my favorite. Some cheap papers use silicone and other materials to make the paper "last longer"... materials that will contaminate your parts and ruin your paint job, go figure.

Sorry this is really long winded. Hope this helps!

Thank you for the compliment! It means a lot considering it's my first time! I hate that I'm not getting the time to finish though =( I have only one skirt left but they don't look anywhere near as good as the pic I posted. I'll take pics of them all sanded soon. It was because I think that the skirts were pretty damaged previously since I did see a few spots of bondo underneath. I didn't ever plan on getting guide coat because I didn't think it would be that necessary but now you got me considering it.

The reason I actually enjoyed wet sanding is because I tried to do it without that method and it ruined the sand paper really quick. When wet sanding however, I was able to reuse the sand paper quite often which saved me a few more pieces of paper which I can use for the coats of primer I spray on .

I got the 3M sandpaper btw

First off: sanding beyond 180 grit before priming will lead to the primer floating over the surface of the scratches, eventually leading to shrink up and sand scratches behind the paint, 2k Primer, including uv primer is designed to only be sprayed over 180 grit for best adhesion and filling purposes, anything finer will also lead to un-appealing chips.
We wetsand because it makes for a cleaner and better professional job. Every situation is different and every vehicle does not get a full blown wetsand job, example this van that was repaired I did not wetsand, but I did have to fix and match the stipes back to the other side.

Keeles, you always seem to have the most informative replies my friend . Definitely reassuring to know that I'm on track. I just hope it stays that way once I show you all the pics of all my skirts when sanded . The paint definitely came off (around the lettering).

 

[WES_393]

The reason I actually enjoyed wet sanding is because I tried to do it without that method and it ruined the sand paper really quick. When wet sanding however, I was able to reuse the sand paper quite often which saved me a few more pieces of paper which I can use for the coats of primer I spray on

This is the main reason I wet sand everything. It keeps the grit clean so it not only lasts longer, but cuts more evenly. While it might not be 100% necessary, it doesn't hurt to do so anyways.

Can't wait to see the pics of the progress!

 

[ishnish]

Exactly! Keeping it running under water helped me see exactly what was coming off as well! Idk if I'm actually gonna get guide coat though. Is it really that necessary?

I can't wait to send the pics! So far everything is going well and I hope that by Monday, I will have all the side moldings sanded since I work all day tomorrow.

 

[KeelesKustome]

If you have some raddle can black spray paint, you can hold the can back from the piece your working on, in sprinkle the peice with black paint, Do Not Load it up with paint, "just sprinkle" This is the poor mans guide coat. Their should be thousands of little black dots everywhere.
You need to be using at the least a soft block to sand with in the process, otherwise you will leave finger gouges in your paint your prepping. You will also just sand the guide coat right off without a block, it's designed to show you low and high spots, or to make sure you remove all the orange peel.

 

[zArlen]

I spent the time to show a few of my projects to you so that you can see, The advice I'm giving is on Q. This is not just a hobby for me, it's what I do everyday.

You use a little bit different of a method... but we finish in 600 grit as well before base.... we just don't wetsand and you do. Either method produces good results... not just a hobby for me either. ALTHOUGH, we DO seal before paint. And sealer will cover fine scratches. Judging by the camaro you go right from primer to base... which is just another difference, haha.

Two different techniques, both producing beautiful, professional results. Nice work! Here are some pics from our shop...

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If you have some raddle can black spray paint, you can hold the can back from the piece your working on, in sprinkle the peice with black paint, Do Not Load it up with paint, "just sprinkle" This is the poor mans guide coat. Their should be thousands of little black dots everywhere.
You need to be using at the least a soft block to sand with in the process, otherwise you will leave finger gouges in your paint your prepping. You will also just sand the guide coat right off without a block, it's designed to show you low and high spots, or to make sure you remove all the orange peel.

+1

Agreed on the black paint method. It works just as well in most cases and you can pic up cheap flat black paint for a fraction of the cost of the guide coat. Just as he said... real light, just enough to get a light mist of paint on there.

Also + 1 on the soft block. Glad Keeles mentioned it!

 

[KeelesKustome]

Thats some nice work,
Looks like ya'll do alot of old cars their.
We are a collission shop, thats where the bread and butter is to be made, but we are also the only shop in about 300sq miles that tackle restorations and any custome airbrush artwork people may desire.

You are correct, their are many ways to skin a cat, and for a new person who more than likely doesn't want to fork out the money for the degreasers etc, wetsanding is a good way to keep the dust content down while cleaning your panel at the same time.
Sealers are a great investment like the link I wrote and shared with you mentions, but if you spend enough time prepping correctly, they aren't always needed and it can save you a little money and time not using it.
Heck, our vario sealers allow us to spray right over the black primer oem new parts come in, without scuffing or anything other than degreasing, the only reason we sand the top part is so that their isn't any outragous orange peel. Technology in paint has came leaps and bounds in the last 10 years.

If anyone tells you they've never gotten a run, had something cook up, or gotten trash, or orange peel in their paint, They are liars. The objective is to get non of those things, but when you paint 30-50 cars a week, you will eventually have all those things happen. The goal is to have the split second understanding as to whats going on, to be able and fix the problems as they arrise, after all your just spraying chemicals, and chemicals react differently in every inviroment.
Whats works well for the TN climate and my work inviroment, may not work for anyone else. "Thats where thinking outside the box is a great equalizer."

 

[zArlen]

Thats some nice work,
Looks like ya'll do alot of old cars their.
We are a collission shop, thats where the bread and butter is to be made, but we are also the only shop in about 300sq miles that tackle restorations and any custome airbrush artwork people may desire.

You are correct, their are many ways to skin a cat, and for a new person who more than likely doesn't want to fork out the money for the degreasers etc, wetsanding is a good way to keep the dust content down while cleaning your panel at the same time.
Sealers are a great investment like the link I wrote and shared with you mentions, but if you spend enough time prepping correctly, they aren't always needed and it can save you a little money and time not using it.
Heck, our vario sealers allow us to spray right over the black primer oem new parts come in, without scuffing or anything other than degreasing, the only reason we sand the top part is so that their isn't any outragous orange peel. Technology in paint has came leaps and bounds in the last 10 years.

If anyone tells you they've never gotten a run, had something cook up, or gotten trash, or orange peel in their paint, They are liars. The objective is to get non of those things, but when you paint 30-50 cars a week, you will eventually have all those things happen. The goal is to have the split second understanding as to whats going on, to be able and fix the problems as they arrise, after all your just spraying chemicals, and chemicals react differently in every inviroment.
Whats works well for the TN climate and my work inviroment, may not work for anyone else. "Thats where thinking outside the box is a great equalizer."

You sir, are someone I could get along with. BTW, your airbrush work is great. Collision shops are definitely the big money businesses once they get rolling and turning profits.

Anyway, maybe post a couple of pics of the side skirts Ish, so we can see what you're working with. Sometimes the repairs that other people have done can be scarier than the project being taken on originally.