WTF ? Prepping for paint

[Zonnashi]

This topic has been an awesome read! I had been looking at a new bumper and just living with a different color till an overall repaint I had planned anyways. Now I want to paint the bumper myself, heck maybe the whole thing (maybe a lil too ambitious). But seriously, Keeles ,WES_393, and zArlen, I've favorited this topic largly due to your inputs. And ishnish, you've asked any question I've had when reading, and made a nice list of steps for me too!

 

[ishnish]

Anyway, maybe post a couple of pics of the side skirts Ish, so we can see what you're working with. Sometimes the repairs that other people have done can be scarier than the project being taken on originally.

zArlen and Keeles, you both have amazing skills I must say. I'm amazed at how gorgeous even the smallest of details look on both your projects!

I actually just took a few pics of my skirts even though I still haven't sanded one completely yet. So I will be posting them up in just a bit

This topic has been an awesome read! I had been looking at a new bumper and just living with a different color till an overall repaint I had planned anyways. Now I want to paint the bumper myself, heck maybe the whole thing (maybe a lil too ambitious). But seriously, Keeles ,WES_393, and zArlen, I've favorited this topic largly due to your inputs. And ishnish, you've asked any question I've had when reading, and made a nice list of steps for me too!

I never thought that my questions would get this much feedback or attention! WES and Keeles have helped me out so much through this thread along with some others and it was definitely a pleasure to see zArlen come on later with his input. And I appreciate the compliment Zonnashi! I REALLY wanted to make this as detailed as I could just because I know there are others that probably need the help and these guys have been nothing short of amazing with the advice they've offered. I'm trying to update every step of the way just cause I know that is what I'd like to see if I'm researching a topic I want to learn about. So I really hope this helps anyone who is interested in painting for the first time.

I'm definitely a LOT more scared to primer now because I don't want to mess up. Before it was only because I just didn't wanna ruin my skirts. But now, it's so much more than that. I don't want to let all the people who have been following this thread down cause I know they probably need this just as bad as me. I'm definitely excited to finish this project but I really hope it goes well just so others can look at a project like this with optimism and see that it's actually not as hard as it looks. I really hope me outlining every step helps which is why I did it in the first place. Anyway, pics of the progress will be up soon

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Alright guys moment of truth.... Honestly I don't know where I stand as of now with the preparation quality.. Like I said, in some areas, the paint definitely came off but I had no choice since it was coming off with the primer. But Keeles stated that this was okay so that was definitely reassuring. Anyways, WES, Keeles, zArlen, and anyone else, feel free to criticize .

First thing first. I thought I'd take some pics of what I already used and what I will be using.

On the far right is some Citristrip that bryanwheat recommended for peeling off the primer. This definitely helped with the lettering on the skirts and the little star on my fender caps because I had NO idea how to sand inside the small spaces. I just spread it on and let it sit for 24 hours (this was what worked best) and it literally did peel the primer right off. However, on one of the skirts, I didn't get the time to take off the gel and let it sit for 48 hours so the pain came off as well . You'll notice this in the next few pics compared to the other side skirt. Next to the strip is a sanding block which, to be honest, I used for like 5 minutes and didn't even bother after that. I think with flat surfaces it would be ideal but with my skirts on the other hand, using my hand felt so much better. I felt like I got a better feel in what was coming off as opposed to using the block because I was able to sand the curvatures of the skirt with my hand unlike the block. The 400 grit sandpaper is all I'm using as of now. I plan to use the 600 for when I'm done with my last coat of primer to get rid of the orange peel.

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Now the good stuff >=)
I haven't used any of this stuff yet but can't wait until I do! Hopefully it'll be enough though... Sitting above the cans are two tack cloths and a prep solvent. This can be used to substitute the degreaser correct WES? Since that is what I'm using to remove and dust and what not.. On the bottom are primer, clear coat, and the base color (as you can probably already tell).

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Now the skirts:

Can you tell which one hasn't been sanded?

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This is the pic I was referring to when mentioning the Citristrip. I let the bottom skirt sit for too long but they both feel smooth to the touch and I'm sure primer will fix this.

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Here you can see how well the Citristrip worked. Thanks for recommending this bryanwheat

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Okay so I felt like maybe the pictures are doing too much justice for my work so I took some with flash. You can definitely see a lot more details now:

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You can definitely see how dirty the skirts were originally when you compare the sanded ones to the original.

So any suggestions? Advice so far? I hope this really helps some of the people on here!

 

[KeelesKustome]

Soft block, Norton Dual Density Wet Sanding Block | Wet Sanding | Sanding Blocks

The advice I have given works with 2k products. Since you'll be using laquer, a finer grit on all the surfaces will work. 320-400 grit before primer shouldn't be an issue.
Just don't use any degreasers that have any solvants in them, since your using 1k products, as it will reactivate them and make a mess.

Looks like your getting close to do your first priming. I'd suggest you prime it and wetsand with 400 smoothing it out and go ahead and reprime it for another wetsanding with 600, as 1k products don't have the millage as 2k products, and a second going over could make the biggest difference in the world.

 

[ishnish]

Soft block, Norton Dual Density Wet Sanding Block | Wet Sanding | Sanding Blocks

The advice I have given works with 2k products. Since you'll be using laquer, a finer grit on all the surfaces will work. 320-400 grit before primer shouldn't be an issue.
Just don't use any degreasers that have any solvants in them, since your using 1k products, as it will reactivate them and make a mess.

Looks like your getting close to do your first priming. I'd suggest you prime it and wetsand with 400 smoothing it out and go ahead and reprime it for another wetsanding with 600, as 1k products don't have the millage as 2k products, and a second going over could make the biggest difference in the world.

That block looks a lot better than the one I was using.

I didn't know I had a 1k product. How could you tell? And what's the difference between 1k and 2k? I'm pretty sure that 2k is better cause I think I remember reading it one one of your posts. Well that's a bummer =/. But I'm doing this just to learn anyway and for the experience. My whole car will be painted within the next few months if all goes to plan anyway.

 

[KeelesKustome]

2k= a hardener must be added VS 1k= air dried

 

[ishnish]

So I told myself I at least want to finish sanding today. Well luckily I got a bit of primering done as well . Not completely finished though and I'm pretty sure I need one more can of primer. I was able to finish two fender caps and a door cap. WES, do you think I might need another can of basecoat and clearcoat while I'm at it?

Anyways, my first spray of primer scared the heck out of me I did not think I'd be able to do it just cause of how bad it looked. But seriously folks, it wasn't that bad at all! The toughest part was sanding and being patient.

As I finished one coat of primer, I didn't really wetsand. I didn't think it was a good idea because it was taking the primer off quite a bit. I didn't even wetsand the second coat because when I did, it would take more primer off and would expose the green skirts again. I didn't know if my coats were too light or what but I didn't wetsand the first fender cap at all. I can still do it guys but honestly the first fender cap felt really smooth to the touch. Maybe I'm just a BOSS at sanding . Jokes aside though, I did wetsand the second coat on my door cap because that one actually felt rough. And just because I thought my coats were really light, I ended up doing three coats of primer on each part so far. Even with 600 grit sandpaper, I had to wetsand VERY lightly just so I wouldn't take too much primer off. Anyways, I tried to condense all the pics I took along the way so I wouldn't have a ton of pics on here for the people who are more the "visual" types of learners like me .

One thing I will say WES, I was so scared because these skirts looked terrible once sanded, but you were correct when you said they will definitely look bad and that's normal because after primer, they now look awesome! Also, if there was one thing I'd go back and do, it would probably be purchasing some sealer. One thing zArlen mentioned was that it helps cover fine scratches. Primer wasn't able to do that =( but it's not too noticeable and hopefully after all the coats of basecoat and such, it'll hardly be noticeable at all.

Anyways guys, here are some progress pics of the whole process thus far:

All parts finally sanded:

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Here I go! Pretty nervous at this point.. Also, when preparing for the first coat of primer, I used a paper towel and the prep solvent to wipe of all the parts. After that I used the tack cloth. I did not wet it since the directions didn't state that I needed to. It felt sticky to the touch so I figured I didn't need to anyway. One thing though is that after even the first coat of primer, DO NOT use the prep solvent to prepare for the next coat! It clearly states so on the directions as well. This was also something that Keeles mentioned as well so thanks for that Keeles . SO basically, only use the prep solvent before you start the primer (prep for primer only). Other than that, if there is primer on the part, DO NOT use or spray the prep solvent onto the surface of it. Hope that I cleared that up enough . I used the tack cloth after every layer of primer though (once dried that is).

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First coat of first fender cap (light coat):

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Second coat of first fender cap:

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Third (last) coat of first fender cap and door cap (forgot to take pics of door cap coats. Also, my camera died so I resolved to using my phone):

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First coat of second fender cap:

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Second coat of second fender cap:

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Third (last) coat of second fender cap:

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Let me know how it all looks guys. Any advice would definitely help and feel free to criticize

Stay tuned as I keep you all updated

 

[KeelesKustome]

It appears your in need of a soft block, I see a good deep gouge beside your starr . It should block out. When you wetsand with 600 grit over your primer, it will reveal the lower layer of paint, while leaving primer in all the low spots. Thats when you reprime or seal.

1k primer is verry thin, you can put upwards to 10 coats of that. vs 2-4 coats of 2k.

Sealer is designed tocover very light scatches. Primer covers more aggresive deaper scratches. If you primer did not cover them it's a good sign you did not put enough on.

A tack rag should never get wet and should be stored in a zip lock bag to keep it from contamination when not using it. It contains a sticky beezewax that removes small particals of dirt and pollen, just wod it up in a fluffy ball for best results and lightly drag it over every square inch, this is most important when you begin to paint, in between coats of paint you'll repaeat the process, "make sure the paint is dry" before doing so. You however will not use the tack rag after you begin to clear. As you clear, just wait for it to flash off and then keeping adding clear, "remember 1k clear is much thinner than 2k, so it could take upwards to 7-8 coats for good protective coverage"

Looking good.

 

[ishnish]

It appears your in need of a soft block, I see a good deep gouge beside your starr . It should block out. When you wetsand with 600 grit over your primer, it will reveal the lower layer of paint, while leaving primer in all the low spots. Thats when you reprime or seal.

1k primer is verry thin, you can put upwards to 10 coats of that. vs 2-4 coats of 2k.

Sealer is designed tocover very light scatches. Primer covers more aggresive deaper scratches. If you primer did not cover them it's a good sign you did not put enough on.

A tack rag should never get wet and should be stored in a zip lock bag to keep it from contamination when not using it. It contains a sticky beezewax that removes small particals of dirt and pollen, just wod it up in a fluffy ball for best results and lightly drag it over every square inch, this is most important when you begin to paint, in between coats of paint you'll repaeat the process, "make sure the paint is dry" before doing so. You however will not use the tack rag after you begin to clear. As you clear, just wait for it to flash off and then keeping adding clear, "remember 1k clear is much thinner than 2k, so it could take upwards to 7-8 coats for good protective coverage"

Looking good.

Yeah I noticed the gouge by the star so I took a closeup pic . That's a bummer I didn't know 1k was much thinner but it makes sense cause it definitely felt like it was. So I guess I'm gonna have to order another can of primer or maybe even two. Same with clear I guess.

Nice info on the tack cloth. Luckily, I did put it in a sealed place when I finished for the day.

So time to purchase a soft block, primer, and clear. What about base coat? I have two cans of primer, base, and clear as of now.

Keeles, is SEM guide coat any good? I just bought some through eBay. Amazon was a bit more expensive. I was able to get it for $0.07 since I had some eBay bucks . Figured I'd use it for something like this

Oh and I got a soft block as well

 

[zArlen]

You look like you've got a pretty good handle on what's going on. Unfortunately being young in the industry and being more knowledgeable in the actual body work/paint prep part of the process and not so much in the spraying part, Keele's is much more help then I am at this point. All I know is 2k products so I'm useless right now, haha. He's teaching us both right now!

Looking forward to seeing more of your progress. Feels good to be doing it yourself doesn't it?

 

[ishnish]

You look like you've got a pretty good handle on what's going on. Unfortunately being young in the industry and being more knowledgeable in the actual body work/paint prep part of the process and not so much in the spraying part, Keele's is much more help then I am at this point. All I know is 2k products so I'm useless right now, haha. He's teaching us both right now!

Looking forward to seeing more of your progress. Feels good to be doing it yourself doesn't it?

Lol well I appreciate the honesty zArlen. Keeles definitely knows basically every aspect of this kind of stuff! I'm actually still waiting for him to reply . And yes, it feels REALLY good

If I knew about 2k products earlier, I would have just bought that but sadly I didn't =/. Oh well, it'll just make the job much easier in the future when and if I attempt this again

 

[KeelesKustome]

Just about all SEM products are a great purchase, with one exception. Their 1k self etching primer.=A joke, don't buy it.
Obviously you would not need it anyways, as self etching primer is designed to litterly eat into the bare metal, so primer can adhere better. It loves to eat into soft tissue as well-------Your lungs. Keep a respirator handy when using any type of this.

Our shop uses 3m guidecoat, but it's all a matter of convienance.

I'd love to see you use some heat or lay the sideskirt flat out in the sun with a few books under that one spot that is curled in, and try to make it straighten back out, it's driving me nuts. *Nija edit* "were you able to straighten it?, your last couple of primed photos were in weird angles and I couldn't tell"

 

[ishnish]

Just about all SEM products are a great purchase, with one exception. Their 1k self etching primer.=A joke, don't buy it.
Obviously you would not need it anyways, as self etching primer is designed to litterly eat into the bare metal, so primer can adhere better. It loves to eat into soft tissue as well-------Your lungs. Keep a respirator handy when using any type of this.

Our shop uses 3m guidecoat, but it's all a matter of convienance.

I'd love to see you use some heat or lay the sideskirt flat out in the sun with a few books under that one spot that is curled in, and try to make it straighten back out, it's driving me nuts. *Nija edit* "were you able to straighten it?, your last couple of primed photos were in weird angles and I couldn't tell"

Keeles do you think I need to order just one other can of primer or more? And same goes for base coat and clear coat.

Hmmm idk what spot you're referring to . If you're referring to the little twists then that's actually what the skirt is supposed to look like haha

 

[KeelesKustome]

If your worried about having enough, buy to much and return it if you don't use it.

this spot.

 

[ishnish]

Lol wow good eye. I just checked out the skirts right now and when I look at it after it's sanded at all, I can't tell that it's curled up or anything. It feels smooth too. I'd think that mounting it on the car with the push pins should get it back into shape.

 

[KeelesKustome]

show everyone your finished product, upon completion.

 

[ishnish]

I sure plan to man. A lot of things have been put on hold sadly just cause of other projects and my jobs. Keeles, would you happen to know of anyone that powder coats valve covers? And can fabricate them a bit?

 

[Arnie]

I sure plan to man. A lot of things have been put on hold sadly just cause of other projects and my jobs. Keeles, would you happen to know of anyone that powder coats valve covers? And can fabricate them a bit?

Did you ever do your skirts? I was looking though this and wondered how it came out.

 

[ishnish]

Sorry totally overlooked this reply. I have no finished yet no. Too many things going on right now. 3 jobs and my school semester just ended not too long ago . So I plan to finish yes, but when? I'm not sure to be honest . Won't let you guys down though!

 

[ishnish]

So guys, sadly I never got done with the skirts because I ended up selling them to a buddy of mine who has always wanted them. I decided to just stick with my current skirts that I have on now. The only problem with them is that I was missing a fender cap, which I did purchase about a year ago but decided never to put it on since I got new skirts. Well that all changed when I sold my friend the skirts. So, basically, the reason I tell you all this is because I decided to just paint the fender cap. Something is better than nothing. I feel terrible not finishing the skirts because I know a lot of people were interested. But this should all give you an idea of the finished product if you follow the same instructions I posted along with the help of others who I owe a lot to.

Anyway, my current fender cap I have was ordered online through JNZ and it came primered. Yay, this makes it easier for you guys to follow since that's exactly where I left off . So after primer we know that I was supposed to start with the basecoat and finish it off with the clear. Well, I just finished all of this as of an hour ago and uploaded pics.

So here is the fender cap already primered. I made sure to wipe it with a dry tack cloth before starting:

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Next came the first light coat of my basecoat (sorry I was only able to get one picture). Let it dry for 10 minutes and wipe it with the tack cloth again (dry):

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Then came second light coat. Again, apply, wait 10 minutes, and wipe it with tack cloth before applying next coat.

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Last came the medium coat. I let this sit for an hour before I started my clearcoat. Before starting the clearcoat, be sure to wipe with a dry tack cloth:

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Now comes my first layer of clearcoat. Applied the light layer and then waited 10 minutes to start the second (light) layer. DO NOT use tack cloth to wipe anymore once you start using the clearcoat!!!:

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Second coat of clearcoat (light layer). Wait ten minutes after applying:

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I decided to go with 5 layers of clearcoat because I think I was spraying a bit too light. So this third layer is another light layer (wait ten minutes after applying):

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Fourth light to medium layer (wait ten to 15 minutes after applying):

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Fifth coat which was a medium coat:

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How it sits now:

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After that, wait 24 hours before buffing. I'm sure I need to buff because I do see some orange peel. So hopefully this looks okay. But I won't know until the pros tell me . It is currently sitting so I will check and see how it looks tomorrow and take pictures before and after buffing .

One thing to keep in mind. If you can, MAKE SURE you do this in a dust free area!!! These guys were not joking about that. On my last and final coat, a piece of dust sat on the clear and I could not get it off. Just my luck! I wasn't gonna risk messing up my clearcoat while it was wet by trying to grap a piece of dust with my nail. Thankfully, it's a lot less noticeable now so I hope it's better tomorrow or after the buffing.

Once again guys, sorry about not continuing on with my other project but I didn't want to let anyone down so I really hope this helps all of who are following get an idea of what to do and the outcome of it.

 

[inspire]

Looks to me from the condition that you are going to have to go through several processes before you begin to refinish those pieces the correct way. The previous paint is peeling for a reason. Loos like the area it was applied to was not properly sanded before the appilcation of the "paint" or in your case "spray can" and all of that is going to have to come down. For plastics and for something with that much peeling and chipping paint I would say start off with some 320 on a orbital sander or if that isn't doing the job fast enough you could resort to the use of some 180. But be careful because 180 on raw plastic will create a whole different level of headaches. It will create fuzziness from the plastic and sometimes getting paint to stick to it can be a nightmare. It is always best to use a adhesive promoter on raw plastics to ensure your primer, sealer, base and clear will stick and maintain the finish for a good while. When you sand out all the imperfections I would suggest just final sanding the hole thing a couple times over with some 600 grit paper to smooth down and sharp surfaces that may have been caused by the 180 or even the 320. After than you will need to apply primer, you can find some high build primers in a can which do semi decent for very small repairs, or you can use what I would suggest which is a sprayable, simple to mix primer with a high build. This will ensure you a very good final result. Then sand her down with some 320 repeat with 600, seal, base, and clear and you have yourself a very nice "RARE" set of nice, properly prepared side skirts that will last a life time.

 

[KeelesKustome]

^^^^ He sold them.