WTF am i doing wrong here. should be 12's

[cfisher]

i still cannot figure out what i've done wrong. i've got a frank 2, 680cc inj, walbro 255 fp, 3" turbo back, safc, logger, 38mm tial wg, ect.. i'm pushing 17psi and went to the track the other day. my best run was a 14.1 @ 98mph. logger states i'm getting 19 deg timing at 7K and .98 on my o2's. my friend has a 20G with the same setup and is running a 12.4 @ 110. (i know .98 is still high but i'm trying to tune off my timing, not o2's.) only diff is he has DSMLINK (studderbox). he says he forced timing with link and is getting 26 deg timing at 7K. i cannot even get off the line anymore from the lag even if i hit the rev limiter at launch. i've tried to brake boost, two step, i'm lost. even if i can't get off the line very well i should still be high 12's with this setup. any suggestions. i can post my latest log if needed but i think this is something else.

 

[damax03]

What kind of fuel, pump or race gas?

 

[cfisher]

tuning on 92 octane right now. just went out and did another run. leaned it out on the safc to -40 on highs. now getting .96 o2's but still only 19 deg timing at 7K. still lost. also -40 seems pretty high. most guys are around -30/-35 on this setup. hmmmmm.

 

[44pirate]

Turn the boost up.

 

[Violater101]

Turn the boost up.

Personally, I would think it would be nice to see the log before telling him to turn up the boost to see how everything looks.

 

[cfisher]

i'll post it here in a little bit. it looks pretty decent to me. timing is smooth, o2's are smooth across, just cannot get the timing up where i want it and the car is not making the power i want. 14.1 with my setup is horrible.

 

[kyle h.]

getting any knock?

 

[cfisher]

can't read knock on a 2g. looking at ign timing for knock.

 

[Sephroth57]

you can read knock by looking at the timing like you said... so his question was valid...

 

[44pirate]

Personally, I would think it would be nice to see the log before telling him to turn up the boost to see how everything looks.

He states "17psi and went to the track the other day. my best run was a 14.1 @ 98mph. logger states i'm getting 19 deg timing at 7K and .98 on my o2's. my friend has a 20G with the same setup and is running a 12.4 @ 110. (i know .98 is still high but i'm trying to tune "
17psi is not much for this turbo. 19 degrees timing is fine, .98 O2's is too rich. What are your Hi settings, on the SAFC, in the rpm ranges? That might tell us more.

 

[cfisher]

yea, the timing isn't bad but the car is just not making the power i would expect. here are my safc settings.

low 30%
high 75%

1K -18
2K -24
3K -28
4K -35
4.5K -38
5K -38
6K -38
7K -38

this seems to be right around all the 50trim/FP Green settings i've seen. -38 actually seems a little lean for me but obviously not. i took it to -40 and my o2's did drop to .96 but my timing still is 19 deg at 7K.

 

[cfisher]

kyle h. & seproth. no harm intended. i know everyone on here that posts is trying to help me out.

 

[44pirate]

Do you have AFPR. When you start flowing more air you won't get much more timing out of it. Stock ECU inherent. I run 21psi on 93 octane with my 50trim and only get 16 degrees timing from 6500rpm on up. No matter if my O2's are .98 or .92, but at .92 it is faster. FWIW

 

[cfisher]

AFPR is not on right now. have a aeromotive on the way. i was using an OBX racing one and it was a piece of shit.

 

[44pirate]

That's prolly your enrichner with the 255lp pump.

 

[cfisher]

so the afpr is going to make that much of a difference huh. i thought that only really helped for tuning your low trims but highs were okay. so with the new afpr i should notice a power difference.

 

[herostar]

this seems to be right around all the 50trim/FP Green settings i've seen..

Remember you don't tune for the turbo size, you tune it for the injectors... My 680's are running a little rich, and they are at abotu -38 accross all the upper RPM's. Try leaning it out more until you start losing timing... When I was initially tuning mine I lost timing when I richened it more than -33, but as I got leaner I got more timing... You just have to find that magical spot that your car likes... every car is different.

 

[blackdemongsx]

I have the same problem you got man. except i got a frank3 and 550. best run was a 13.7 @95 mph. talk about shitty

 

[CanadianTSi]

Boost Leak probably. How's the compression on the Motor?

 

[markgholland]

Boost Leak probably. How's the compression on the Motor?

That should have been the first thing asked. It should be a prerequisite in the "tuning" section to check for leaks before you post here. I bet you either have a HUGE boost leak, or one of your cylinders has crappy compression. Anyone taking bets here?
~Mark

 

[cfisher]

not a boost leak. i've always checked for boost leaks and found and fixed them. had one in my injector seal, one in my tb shaft seal, one in a cracked coupling. all have been fixed. just did another one and everything is a okay. i believe my prob is i don't have my afpr installed. getting my lines in today with aeromotive afpr & fuel filter. hope this takes care of it. we will see. have not done a compression check though. if the lines don't take care of it i'll go that route.

 

[lowridin2g]

17psi is not much for this turbo. 19 degrees timing is fine, .98 O2's is too rich. What are your Hi settings, on the SAFC, in the rpm ranges? That might tell us more.

first of all, 2g's tune for timing advance. they cannot read knock, only through the timing curve and how much timing advance theyre getting by redline. second of all its a stock godamn 02 sensor. its no friggin wideband so if youre gonna tune for .92 o2 voltages, be my guest.

i personally am getting .96, then .98 o2's by redline, but im also getting 20-21 degrees timing advance. if i lean it out more, i get less timing advance (knock im guessing by my curve) but 02 voltages are right around .94 and .96.

personally id rather be getting 20-21 degrees timing advance by redline with .96 and .98 by redline o2 voltages than getting 18-19 deg timing advance and .92-.94 o2 voltages. also when i was seeing .94 o2's across the board i was only seeing 16deg timing advance at redline (very bad). probably has alot to do with the cams i have seeing as how i have to tune a lil richer than before to get good timing advance.

 

[markgholland]

It's amazing what you can do to get more timing advance with just an AFPR and a fuel computer
~Mark

 

[44pirate]

17psi is not much for this turbo. 19 degrees timing is fine, .98 O2's is too rich. What are your Hi settings, on the SAFC, in the rpm ranges? That might tell us more.

first of all, 2g's tune for timing advance. they cannot read knock, only through the timing curve and how much timing advance theyre getting by redline. second of all its a stock godamn 02 sensor. its no friggin wideband so if youre gonna tune for .92 o2 voltages, be my guest.

i personally am getting .96, then .98 o2's by redline, but im also getting 20-21 degrees timing advance. if i lean it out more, i get less timing advance (knock im guessing by my curve) but 02 voltages are right around .94 and .96.

personally id rather be getting 20-21 degrees timing advance by redline with .96 and .98 by redline o2 voltages than getting 18-19 deg timing advance and .92-.94 o2 voltages. also when i was seeing .94 o2's across the board i was only seeing 16deg timing advance at redline (very bad). probably has alot to do with the cams i have seeing as how i have to tune a lil richer than before to get good timing advance.

I've got a Keydiver chip, my stock boost guage is a knock sensor. I get no knock at 16 degrees timing to redline, which is 8000 rpm by the way. O2's are always around .94. In order for me to get higher timing, I have to turn the boost down. Turning boost down and getting what you call better timing makes me slower. FWIW. You have to realise what kind of timing map your airflow wll get you.

 

[markgholland]

It's amazing what you can do to get more timing advance with just an AFPR and a fuel computer

I was trying to drop a hint. Bump up your base fuel pressure a bit and pull more out of the AFC. That should help you out a bit with your timing.

Set your boost at a level and leave it there. You should be able to tune your car at any given boost level. If there is a problem, find it and fix it.
~Mark