Wisemen and knowledgable tumers , 14000 rpm cfm? [Merged 7-7] STUPID high

[AWD Eagle]

A thought:

Turbos tend to push hot air at higher rpm's so:

If you took a 4g63 built for a turbo, that could make power to 8500. Took the turbo off, and ran about 400 shot of nitrous, that would be sweet, and very reliable off the bottle.

 

[95Eclipsers]

400 shot wtf, is that possible? obviously direct port

 

[98spydert]

That is incorrect. redline has nothing to do with displacement. The reason the ferarri engines rev so high is becaue they have a ridiculously short stroke.
It's all about stroke and rod/stroke ratio, and piston velocity.
That's why, (example), when you take a 350 SBC and stroke it out to a 383, you drop rev capability.
It's all childsplay, though, until you take things into consideration like built bigblocks. People balance their bigblocks using good internals and they are plenty capable of turning over 7k rpms. A 572 turning 7k is enough to pwn some faces.
Of course V engines have alot more rotational vibrations than an inline engine, which is naturally going to have more overall balance.

Holy crap it took two pages to get a good answer! The main factor for high reving bottom ends is the piston velocity. For the head, the main concern is probably the valve springs. A good aftermarket dual valve spring set up like I had on my old B16ed crx allowed me to reach those high rpms without the fear of valve float. As for needing a higher redline on our engines, using cams like the 272s would raise the power band up near or past redline. A lot of other VE mods would need to be done in order to even need that 9k+ redline.

 

[98spydert]

i don't know what b16 you had or what else was in your setup but with a bone stock b16 and bolton's with hondata ecu i was maken power about 8500 and it was still going up. on turbo i stoped at 8,000 and hit max tq at 7,000 because the open deck was maxed out so u tell me where the power band is.

You think an open or close deck has an effect on your power band?

3 things could have happened that I can think of:
The volumetric efficiency dropped radically due to the efficiency of the turbo or the inability of the engine to consume the air pumped by the turbo.
The stock head bolts stretched and the head lifted slightly off of the block.
The cute little hardened aluminum, open deck design lived up to it's reputation and the cylinders moved due to too much twisting force, breaking the seal of the headgasket.

Most of the time if either of the 2nd two happen due to high power output, the results are a blown headgasket or something else that doesn't just go back to normal after the dyno pull.

 

[pickens]

I mis-shifted and went from 3rd to 2nd at about 90-100mph. I caught it pretty fast and pushed the clucth in, but my AFC recorded a max RPM of 9,004! And guess what, no bent valves or broken parts. I guess I got really lucky on that one. I think the thicker head gasket (MLS) and lighter stainless steel valves helped to keep everything from colliding at such a high rpm. Anyone else ever rev this high on stock valve springs and retainers?

 

[NewB2dsm]

I did the same thing a few years back but reved much higher than yours

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[pickens]

Whoa! Any damage!?

 

[Defiant]

Your balance shaft bearings will tell you later if they objected to being spun at 18,000. They seem to be the first to complain.

 

[NewB2dsm]

Your balance shaft bearings will tell you later if they objected to being spun at 18,000. They seem to be the first to complain.

yup, i was told from people that i didnt break the balance shaft belt. But no damage since i did my stupid mistake i have put cams in and ran the time below my name.

 

[gman991057]

I was fooling around with a couple friends of mine in my old N/T 4g63 and i was going about 60 in 5th (really slow) and i went to put it in 3rd but got 1st instead! RPMsw went well above 9000, no clue exactly how high but i blew apart my pressure plate and i had to meet RPMs all the way home after starting the car in 1st from a roll. I also had to change my balance shaft belt tentioner, which was abliterated. FUN FUN! good old hyundai

 

[gman991057]

forgot to mention the two holes in my bell housing. Good times

 

[EVOb00stn]

Its been a long time since Ive been here, but I have been workin on my GSX now that i no longer have the Evo...Heres my situation

I have the Evo3 Big 16 and supporting mods, list is hereMods List , The turbo has only been on the car for 2 months. I had planned on gettin high 12's out of it and being done, but now i wanna go faster!!

With intentions on buyin a slowboy stage 2 short block or building one, gettin HKS cams, fp3065 and AEM i was wondering if Id be able to rev to 8k rpm with the stock head, stock springs and such but with the cams and it still be safe and not break? I dont wanna run nitrous so since lag will be pretty bad compared the 16g, I am wanting to rev to 8k rpm to make up for the lag.

Im tryin to get a price list to see what I will be spending this winter. So far the list goes a lil like this

FP3065 or GT35R
44mm Tail Ext
Tubular Manifold
HKS Cams
Possibly pulleys and cam gears

Im probably forgetting some other items but oh well.

Thanks
Billy

 

[timloomis]

i personally wouldnt do it ALL the time without better springs.

 

[nanokpsi]

There is no need to rev it to 8 grand. The power will start to fall off pretty drasticaly in the high end so you won't be going any faster. Shifting at 7000 or so should put you back into full boost. If you had a SMIM, I might suggest you wring it out more. Hope that heps.

 

[Slippi84]

YOu think that shifting past 7k with a gt35 or fp3065 won't make you go any faster. You do know that these turbos don't hit full boost untill 4700-5k on a stock 2.0l. Thses are no small turbos. Depending on your exhaust housing of course these things can easily pull till 8k. You just gota have the right supporting mods. With some hks 272's or fp3's and a SMIM your car will breath long and hard.

 

[nanokpsi]

YOu think that shifting past 7k with a gt35 or fp3065 won't make you go any faster. You do know that these turbos don't hit full boost untill 4700-5k on a stock 2.0l. Thses are no small turbos. Depending on your exhaust housing of course these things can easily pull till 8k. You just gota have the right supporting mods. With some hks 272's or fp3's and a SMIM your car will breath long and hard.

I am well aware of the size of the turbos. I actually recently pulled off my SCM61 and bolted on a PT67. Both of those turbos(3065/gt35r) will be in full boost around 4500rpm. A fast shift at 7-7500 will put them back into full spool no problem. Without a SMIM there is not much need to hang out after 7k, as the power falls so much with teh stock mani.

 

[RavenX]

Yes you can rev to 8,000rpm with the stock valvetrain. I have done it countless of times with no ill effects.

 

[bullettdsm]

Yes you can rev to 8,000rpm with the stock valvetrain. I have done it countless of times with no ill effects.

Ditto
MB

 

[Slowboy]

Its been a long time since Ive been here, but I have been workin on my GSX now that i no longer have the Evo...Heres my situation

I have the Evo3 Big 16 and supporting mods, list is hereMods List , The turbo has only been on the car for 2 months. I had planned on gettin high 12's out of it and being done, but now i wanna go faster!!

With intentions on buyin a slowboy stage 2 short block or building one, gettin HKS cams, fp3065 and AEM i was wondering if Id be able to rev to 8k rpm with the stock head, stock springs and such but with the cams and it still be safe and not break? I dont wanna run nitrous so since lag will be pretty bad compared the 16g, I am wanting to rev to 8k rpm to make up for the lag.

Im tryin to get a price list to see what I will be spending this winter. So far the list goes a lil like this

FP3065 or GT35R
44mm Tail Ext
Tubular Manifold
HKS Cams
Possibly pulleys and cam gears

Im probably forgetting some other items but oh well.

Thanks
Billy

With HKS cams, or a similar cam, and a car making 400 plus WHP you should seriously consider spending another $500.00 on a set of SS valves and a good spring and retainer kit... of course, this is my opinion!

Why do things twice?

MGH

 

[theghost]

Have dsmlink v2 and was curious what happens when you go over 8k rpm? I just built my head and added a magnus smim and planned on shifting around 8500 or so. Went to register on dsmlink forum but they aren't accepting new registrations right now. Any info would help thanx

 

[Defiant]

The factory ECU cuts off fuel at 7500 (although this is not "fuel cut").
If present, the balance shafts are turning at twice crank RPM. The first bearing to fail is the rear bearing on the rear balance shaft, followed by a rod bearing.
You have no payoff in spinning a DSM motor that high, and many risks.

 

[project_tsi]

DSMLink will not cut fuel at any point, but yes, the factory ecu will.

Sounds like you have an OK build head, but w/out cams that will pull hard past redline, then why even go ahead? Your making no power at 7500 r's, and are slowing your self down. Now if you have no balance shafts, as well as a built head w/ cams and a turbo that will pull hard to 8k and up, then there is no reason you cannot do it safely.

I personally would never rev past 7k w/ balance shafts, I've had too much trouble w/ them in the past to ever trust them again. I removed my balance shafts, have a 6 bolt block w/ stock valvtrain besides Comp cams, w/ full supporting turbo and fuel mods, and I have no problem safely taking my engine to 7500-7750 r'.s

 

[theghost]

Just got my answer from thomas as dsmlink, He said that the dsmlink runs the same settings above 8k rpm as it is set for 8k rpm. Oh and I do have b shaft removed a set of hks 272's upgraded valvetrain and t67 turbo just forgot to mention in my profile, thanks for the help though

 

[dsm-onster]

Ok, either I can spend $1500 for a stroker kit (includes forged rods and pistons), a set of FP3s for $425, Ti dual springs and retainers for $300, get my head ported for $50-$80, larger valves for $150, and a SMIM for $450. Total $2890.

Or, I could get a smim for $450, Ti dual springs and retainers for $300, a set of FP3s for $425, raise my rev limit to +9500 rpms (free. I have dsmlink), and get a set of forged rods and pistons for $600. Total $1775.

Ok. Screw stroking

I'm gonna rev.

Does anyone know where fp2s peter out at? I've seen Swordfish's dyno results on the fp2s vs. fp3s. He has a stock 1G intake mani. But, I'll be getting a Magnus SMIM. I am wondering if it's worth going to 9500+ rpms w/ my FP2Xs?

 

[psychlow]

Your transmission hates you already.

In all seriousness, though, you'll need a very stout transmission to handle shifts at that high a RPM.

EDIT: I know that doesn't answer your question, but I just figured you'd want to add that to your total cost.