Wideband Vs. Narrowband

[Iowa99GST]

What's the difference? Pros & Cons?

Thanks guys.

 

[BigBeans]

Narrowbands are useless and tell you nothing.

Widebands tell you the A/F ratio.

 

[bluzvr4]

i dont know if there is a pro for the narrow band besides its a nice ricer light.

get a wide band it will actually tell your what your afr's are

 

[ilco187]

WB all day, you would never get a proper and accurate tune on a NB signal.

 

[Calan]

The cheap NB gauges are actually really useful for monitoring almost any modified DC voltage... as long as it's not a NB signal.

 

[TalonEsi_96]

Like said narrowband don't give any real accurate af ratios and widebands do thats why they are more expensive

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yep get the wideband and get to tuning, no way around it.

 

[ramsack]

The cheap NB gauges are actually really useful for monitoring almost any modified DC voltage... as long as it's not a NB signal.

Ya, a narrowband gauge is just a 2x 3914/3915 bar-graph circuits stacked. It would be more useful as a voltage gauge. Just swap out a few resistors for different values and you'd have a pretty cool bar-graphed voltage gauge.

 

[Calan]

Ya, a narrowband gauge is just a 2x 3914/3915 bar-graph circuits stacked. It would be more useful as a voltage gauge. Just swap out a few resistors for different values and you'd have a pretty cool bar-graphed voltage gauge.

Yep.

Toss on a different printed faceplate and you have 100% functional rice.

 

[Iowa99GST]

Ok I should give more info, cause when I got my car it had a narrowband and an SAFC II installed, didn't know what the benefits of going to a Wideband would be, or how hard it is to get it installed.

 

[bradselph]

Go wideband and burn you narrowband light show!

Simple install really if you can install a stereo you can install a gauge.

Hardest part about installing a wideband is welding the bung in the exhaust, or if you have ecmlink you can delete your stock o2 sensor and just run it there without welding.

 

[95TalonOwner]

You cannot do or change anything reliably with a narrowband gauge.

 

[91stocker]

Its very possible to tune with a narrowband. It reads in volts instead of afr's. Which you can easily find a conversion ap for or just find a target volt reading to aim for. The same way you would aim for a specific afr. If your logging to get the volt readings that is. Ive never heard anything good about the NB gauges though.

 

[JaxonsGSX]

As said 1000000000x, Wideband all the way. With it you know exactly what your cars afr are at. With the NB you may get distracted by the pretty lights and wreck

 

[MY1GDSM]

Its very possible to tune with a narrowband. It reads in volts instead of afr's. Which you can easily find a conversion ap for or just find a target volt reading to aim for. The same way you would aim for a specific afr. If your logging to get the volt readings that is.

Oh yeah?

Lets tune with this!

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The rich region output of narrow band O2 sensors is temperature dependant, which renders it useless if an accuracy better than 1.5:1 AFR is desired. This is immediately obvious given the fact that a single output voltage actually represents wildly different air fuel ratios depending on the unregulated and unmeasured sensor temperature. These sensors were designed for operating closed loop around stoichiometry (14.64:1 for
gasoline), and for performance tuning they are useless...

/THREAD

 

[Calan]

Its very possible to tune with a narrowband. It reads in volts instead of afr's. Which you can easily find a conversion ap for or just find a target volt reading to aim for. The same way you would aim for a specific afr. If your logging to get the volt readings that is. Ive never heard anything good about the NB gauges though.

You must have reinvented the NB sensor and developed new theory then.

Please teach us.

EDIT:

Damn... beaten again. I gotta start typing faster.

 

[91stocker]

Oh yeah?
The rich region output of narrow band O2 sensors is temperature dependant, which renders it useless if an accuracy better than 1.5:1 AFR is desired. This is immediately obvious given the fact that a single output voltage actually represents wildly different air fuel ratios depending on the unregulated and unmeasured sensor temperature. These sensors were designed for operating closed loop around stoichiometry (14.64:1 for
gasoline), and for performance tuning they are useless...

/THREAD

Safc guys did it for years and years. I know of some evo guys that have ran mid 11's with safc and nb o2. Not that there isnt better options more easily obtainable now but still...

You must have reinvented the NB sensor and developed new theory then.

Please teach us.
EDIT:
Damn... beaten again. I gotta start typing faster.

No new theory, its an old way of doing things, used on many platforms. But like i just said there are better options now.

Heres a pic ive had laying around for a while.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Safc guys did it for years and years. I know of some evo guys that have ran mid 11's with safc and nb o2. Not that there isnt better options more easily obtainable now but still...

AND???

This is not a debate on being cheap or not... How many people use a SAFC still? (Rhetorical question, please don't answer)

Heres a pic ive had laying around for a while.

Overlay the pic I posted on that one and maybe you'll begin to understand what was said an why it doesn't work.


AGAIN,

/Thread

 

[91stocker]

AND???

This is not a debate on being cheap or not... How many people use a SAFC still? (Rhetorical question, please don't answer)

Overlay what I posted and maybe you'll begin to understand what was said an why it doesn't work

And?? it works...

 

[MY1GDSM]

And?? it works...

I'm not going to debate this any further...

Your more then welcome to "tune" your car that way...

But I myself will give you a little advice "I've had laying around for a while" from those SAFC days

If you have a logger

This is the most important tool you can have. Make sure to note knock, timing and airflow when logging. These values are very key when it comes to tuning and diagnosing your car.

DO NOT: Count on just an O2 gauge for tuning. Yes, it can tell you when you are running incredibly lean or rich, but knock and timing are more important to look at...

 

[91stocker]

I'm not going to debate this any further...

Your more then welcome to "tune" your car that way...

But I myself will give you a little advice "I've had laying around for a while" from those SAFC days

Yea theres no need to debate, ive ran a 12.5 on a ebay 16g and safc. Moved on since then but most people's advice is regurgitated shit they heard from somewhere else. and that quote is good advice.

These cars are very capable with stock parts and basic mods.

 

[Calan]

Yea theres no need to debate, ive ran a 12.5 on a ebay 16g and safc. Moved on since then but most people's advice is regurgitated shit they heard from somewhere else. and that quote is good advice.

These cars are very capable with stock parts and basic mods.

Back "in the day" people who were making power with NB tuning and EGT sensors were thinking outside the box and pushing the limits. We're in a different day and age now. Implying that tuning with a NB is in any way a good thing is just bad advice.

 

[91stocker]

Back "in the day" people who were making power with NB tuning and EGT sensors were thinking outside the box and pushing the limits. We're in a different day and age now. Implying that tuning with a NB is in any way a good thing is just bad advice.

Very true. But the only thing i was implying is that it is very possible to tune with a NB and it is in fact more then just a light show. You can aim for a specific volt reading the same as you would with afr's, you wont get the same resolution but close.

Completely off topic but im curious. Why are you logging with a palm and mmcd when you have link v3? I was under the impression link had cell tracking and all that fancy stuff with their logger?

 

[MY1GDSM]

A logger is a logger...and MMCD will still work as long as the ECU isn't locked in ECMlink communication mode.

Don't think everyone drives everywhere with their laptop... .

 

[91stocker]

A logger is a logger...and MMCD will still work as long as the ECU isn't locked in ECMlink communication mode.

Don't think everyone drives everywhere with their laptop... .

Thanks calan

A logger is a logger...

and if thats true why didnt you save yourself $500 and run dsmap? The only thing link had over jackal before was the logging

Jackal now has cell tracking and Werewolf looks very promising in beta.