Replacing narrowband with wideband wiring questions

[horizontalkev]

I'm finally getting around to replacing my crappy narrowband with my LC1 wideband, just a couple of questions.

1. Do I just simply cut the narrowband gauge from the wires, tape them up, set them aside and forget that I ever had a narrowband?
2. Assuming the NB was set up properly, Are there any wires I may be able to reuse from the narrowband for the wideband such as power, ground and so on?

The LC1 is being set up with its own bung, no logging and non ecmlink. Thanks

 

[Cdc1221]

Keep your narrowband then, and set up the lc1 per the instructions. Or use this...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...21002-innovate-lc-1-installation-options.html

 

[horizontalkev]

Keep your narrowband then, and set up the lc1 per the instructions. Or use this...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...21002-innovate-lc-1-installation-options.html

That's actually the guide I'm using for my setup. Are you saying keep the narrowband and wideband functional at the same time? The problem with that is I'm planning to use the NBs location for the WB.

 

[Breezio69]

Use the power and ground from the narrow for the wideband, then remove the signal wire from the narrow that is attached to the o2 sensor wiring... run new o2 harness, call it a day.

I did this when I replaced mine, had the wideband installed in about 30 mins, and the longest part of my install was finding the location the guy tapped the narrowband into. Check the harness on the passenger side. Mine was wired about 6" up from the harness almost behind the motor. Hope that helps

 

[Cdc1221]

You said you were welding a bung in. You just unplug the nb from the harness over by the water neck. And you wire it in by the instructions on that link. Just better hope one output is wideband, and the other nb, or your car will run like poo.

 

[Breezio69]

You said you were welding a bung in. You just unplug the nb from the harness over by the water neck. And you wire it in by the instructions on that link. Just better hope one output is wideband, and the other nb, or your car will run like poo.

For ease of install I also went with a third bung, one more wire connection to go wrong, right?

 

[horizontalkev]

You said you were welding a bung in. You just unplug the nb from the harness over by the water neck. And you wire it in by the instructions on that link. Just better hope one output is wideband, and the other nb, or your car will run like poo.

What do you mean? I won't be simulating narrowband.. The wideband won't be communicating to my ecu at all, just the gauge right?

 

[horizontalkev]

Use the power and ground from the narrow for the wideband, then remove the signal wire from the narrow that is attached to the o2 sensor wiring... run new o2 harness, call it a day.

I did this when I replaced mine, had the wideband installed in about 30 mins, and the longest part of my install was finding the location the guy tapped the narrowband into. Check the harness on the passenger side. Mine was wired about 6" up from the harness almost behind the motor. Hope that helps

Thanks, will unplugging it like cdc said be okay enough or will the signal wire also need to be unplugged?

 

[Breezio69]

I pulled the signal wire just because I didn't want to have a dead wire hanging around... its also still connected to the signal wire on the o2 wiring, so if it ever grounded out or anything I don't know what would happen, if anything?

Should just be one wire, once you follow it to where it goes through the firewall then into the engine bay its just a quick pull through and disconnect it. The narrowband should only have 3 wires, power, ground, signal.

 

[Cdc1221]

There are two ways to run a wideband. In the front o2 spot simulating a nb output to the ecu, or in a separate bung with the only output being a wb output to the gauge. If you completely do away with your front o2 without simulating nb, your car will run like ass and never go into closed loop, resulting in horrible mileage

 

[horizontalkev]

I pulled the signal wire just because I didn't want to have a dead wire hanging around... its also still connected to the signal wire on the o2 wiring, so if it ever grounded out or anything I don't know what would happen, if anything?

Should just be one wire, once you follow it to where it goes through the firewall then into the engine bay its just a quick pull through and disconnect it. The narrowband should only have 3 wires, power, ground, signal.

I'm not sure what would happen. probably screw up the readings I'm not too sure. And that seems pretty simple thank you I'll keep you all updated

 

[horizontalkev]

There are two ways to run a wideband. In the front o2 spot simulating a nb output to the ecu, or in a separate bung with the only output being a wb output to the gauge. If you completely do away with your front o2 without simulating nb, your car will run like ass and never go into closed loop, resulting in horrible mileage

I'm keeping the front o2 sensor and welding on a separate bung

 

[Cdc1221]

That's actually the guide I'm using for my setup. Are you saying keep the narrowband and wideband functional at the same time? The problem with that is I'm planning to use the NBs location for the WB.

You confused me

 

[Breezio69]

Ok ok... there IS some major confusion going on here.

Cdc only said to unplug the o2 sensor under the water housing IF you wanted to run the wideband to simulate the narrowband signal. Dont unplug it if you aren't.

And cdc, he is saying he wants to use the pod location that the narrowband is in.

Wire it up like I said, I used my narrowband power/ground. Got rid of the signal wire from the narrowband. Ran new harness/sensor to third bung. Its that simple... things are getting over complicated.

 

[FLASH1970]

If you completely do away with your front o2 without simulating nb, your car will run like ass and never go into closed loop, resulting in horrible mileage

Not true... on my 99 I use Ceddymods and the Tactrix cable for tuning. I went into the ROM and turned off the o2 sensors and closed loop. I have a stock downpipe for now so I used the narrowband O2 sensor to dial in my injectors for cruising and idling. Once the fuel trims were good I just unplugged the narrowband, disabled closed loop & O2 sensors in the ECU, put the wideband in the O2 housing, wired it to the cigarette lighter for power, attached the 2 ground wires... getting close to 30mpg but I'm still doing some tweaking. My goal is over 30mpg on my 99 GSX with 256k on it.

 

[horizontalkev]

You confused me

Oh I reread what I posted sorry should have been much clearer thanks for your help man.

Ok ok... there IS some major confusion going on here.

Cdc only said to unplug the o2 sensor under the water housing IF you wanted to run the wideband to simulate the narrowband signal. Dont unplug it if you aren't.

And cdc, he is saying he wants to use the pod location that the narrowband is in.

Wire it up like I said, I used my narrowband power/ground. Got rid of the signal wire from the narrowband. Ran new harness/sensor to third bung. Its that simple... things are getting over complicated.

yes some of the replies were kind of confusing me .. It all makes sense, now that were all on the same page. I might need help with the calibration button I will try on my own first, if I can't figure it out I'll be back on here

Not true... on my 99 I use Ceddymods and the Tactrix cable for tuning. I went into the ROM and turned off the o2 sensors and closed loop. I have a stock downpipe for now so I used the narrowband O2 sensor to dial in my injectors for cruising and idling. Once the fuel trims were good I just unplugged the narrowband, disabled closed loop & O2 sensors in the ECU, put the wideband in the O2 housing, wired it to the cigarette lighter for power, attached the 2 ground wires... getting close to 30mpg but I'm still doing some tweaking. My goal is over 30mpg on my 99 GSX with 256k on it.

Damn 30+ MPG!?

 

[Cdc1221]

I did not know that, Flash. Thanks for the correction :thumbsup:

 

[Breezio69]

I have the mtx-l so the calibration procedure is a bit different. But just make sure when you calibrate it you have the sensor out of the bung in free air (I just laid mine on the ground propped up with a socket)

Then it should do what the manual states, something like saying "htr" then switching to "cal", then when it reads the leanest setting, 22.5 on mine, its done. Install and enjoy.

 

[horizontalkev]

Okay so I'm figuring out the placement of where my o2 sensor will go.. Is this okay? It's a little vertical right on the bend of downpipe.. Will have a copper hear sink with it

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Or should I install after flex section?

 

[WES_393]

That area is the best spot to install the sensor IMO. I wouldn't put it after the flex section just because of the bubblegum welds on your flex section. You shouldn't need a heat sink that far from the turbo either. It's really only needed when running it in the stock O2 spot.

And just to add, IMO it's usually best to keep the stock front O2 sensor along with the wideband. That way the ECU is reading it's own independent sensor like it was designed to.

 

[horizontalkev]

I thought that seemed to be the best spot also, I don't trust the flex section to be leak free.. But it's just kindof cramped. Right now the plans are at like 10 o'clockish (same location as in pictures) on the bend, can I move it more to like 9 or is that too low? I will be welding the bung tomorrow

 

[Breezio69]

If i recall you want them at 15* from horizontal, so 10 o clock should be fine.

I hope you or your buddy is a better welder than that guy who did the flex section,

 

[horizontalkev]

If i recall you want them at 15* from horizontal, so 10 o clock should be fine.

I hope you or your buddy is a better welder than that guy who did the flex section,

Okay that's where it will be then.. I will be doing the welding tomorrow using MIG. Pictures really don't show how bad those bubble welds really are they are nasty.. I mind grind it out tomorrow and redo it.

 

[Breezio69]

Haha, they do show how bad they really are but honestly I think unless you are going to cut out and redo the flex section you should leave it, welding over welds can just make it more brittle. Plus with the 3/4" beads you'd have to lay down to cover that up, you'd probably burn through creating an even bigger mess. And cleaning up in between those bird shit welds will be an issue to get a good clean surface to reweld on, you could/ will most likely end up with bubbles and having it look just as bad

I'd personally go buy a new flex pipe, pull the whole downpipe off and reweld it where you will have some control off the car.

Edit: that may also be a deciding factor on where your bung really goes too, have you thought about grabbing the welder and seeing if you can actually get all the way around it in that location? Without pulling the dp off... mines at 2 o clock post flex pipe for that reason. It was the easiest spot to do it.

 

[horizontalkev]

I'm thinking I'll grind it out, maybe torch cut it off, clean it up and reweld it when I get to the shop tomorrow. We will see I'll be sure to post pictures. I have seen better welds from my 11 year old brother.

And I actually already have the downpipe removed, in the pictures you'll notice the downpipe is removed from the test pipe. So space won't be a problem, I hate doing overhead welding anyways