Wideband or narrowband?

[Crash429]

Ok so I bought a 93 talon tsi about 6 months ago, it was blown up when I got, so Ive been buildin a 6 bolt for it and basically redoin the entire car, It came with a autometer boost gauge and autometer pro-comp ultra lite afr gauge, my question is does this mean I have a wideband? And if i dont can I run a wideband o2 sensor with this gauge? I dont even know if the gauge is hooked up I havnt got the car ready to go yet, idk how to tell the difference In a wideband o2 and a narrowband o2 buy lookin at it, all i no is my o2 sensor has 4 wires two white, a gray, an a black

 

[acidreian]

That gauge is just a Wire in to read the sock NArrow band O2 sensor IMO its useless better off buying an AEM wideband if u plan on building this car for power is required for good tune.

 

[Joethefallen23]

That gauge is just a Wire in to read the sock NArrow band O2 sensor IMO its useless better off buying an AEM wideband if u plan on building this car for power is required for good tune.

Innovate is actually as much better option for our platform. MTX-L or LC-1.

 

[Crash429]

Ya Im gonna get wideband, just wasn't sure if I already had it and if i didnt have it if I could use my gauge with a wideband o2 sensor

Ok thanks for the info I'll check them out and see wich I like the best, thanks again

 

[acidreian]

Innovate is actually as much better option for our platform. MTX-L or LC-1.

The reason why i Say AEM is because the LC-1 which i have is allways .3-.7 off compaired to MY AEM that i use to Tune the car on the AWD dyno.
If they Fixed the problem in a newer MTX-L then great if not the LC-1 is Shit and needs to be Recal'd Weekly or else its off or flashing. also replaced the Sensor for it 3 times and its 2 years old.

 

[clipto]

aem wideband get it got it good.

 

[acidreian]

aem wideband get it got it good.

EXACTLY

People still use Innovate because there easy to install and use on DSMlink.

 

[LiquidX]

Innovate mtxl. It's more accurate of a controller than aem last I looked. Also, you can calibrate the innovate wb unlike aem.

 

[WES_393]

Not to mention AEM's shady warranty policies.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-parts-feedback-reviews/452518-aem-uego-never-again.html

OP- Unless the gauge has its own Wideband sensor (or harness for one) it's just a narrowband. One of the easiest ways to tell is whether the gauge has a digital numerical readout, or just colored LED's around the outside.

 

[clipto]

Innovate mtxl. It's more accurate of a controller than aem last I looked. Also, you can calibrate the innovate wb unlike aem.

I would love you to compare how much more accurate it is like .00001 second faster ? A wideband is a wideband there all good enough to tell you your a/f reading. Also calibrating is annoying have to jack up the car go under it, unplug the sensor reset it and plug it back in. I will stick with my aem. As the other guy with warranty it's not hard to install wideband. There is a power wire and a ground wire I dunno whats to rocket science about it. Maybe need professional to install it for you.

 

[WES_393]

I would love you to compare how much more accurate it is like .00001 second faster ? A wideband is a wideband there all good enough to tell you your a/f reading.

He means accurate as in AEM units rarely log correctly in Link. Who care about "fast" when your gauge reads 17:1 and Link says 10:1. The guys from ECM Tuning have even openly stated that the AEM unit's are too weak to work correctly with DSMLink.

Also calibrating is annoying have to jack up the car go under it, unplug the sensor reset it and plug it back in. I will stick with my aem.

Exactly. The Innovate units calibrate with the push of a button. And unplugging a sensor is very different from calibrating it.

As the other guy with warranty it's not hard to install wideband. There is a power wire and a ground wire I dunno whats to rocket science about it. Maybe need professional to install it for you.

Did you even take the time to read the thread I posted? The sensor was installed "professionally" (aka by myself), AEM just refused to do anything about their Taiwanese product failing after 5k miles. End of story.

 

[clipto]

He means accurate as in AEM units rarely log correctly in Link. Who care about "fast" when your gauge reads 17:1 and Link says 10:1. The guys from ECM Tuning have even openly stated that the AEM unit's are too weak to work correctly with DSMLink.

Meh when I am bored I go see hundreds of dyno tuning sessions english racing and never seen issues with the aem wideband and tuning. Maybe blame your tuner? I wouldn't mind plugging in link with my aem wideband and showing you it's just fine. Sure people might have had some issues over time but none the less I doubt anything is going to happen bad for this guy.

 

[acidreian]

He means accurate as in AEM units rarely log correctly in Link. Who care about "fast" when your gauge reads 17:1 and Link says 10:1. The guys from ECM Tuning have even openly stated that the AEM unit's are too weak to work correctly with DSMLink.



Exactly. The Innovate units calibrate with the push of a button. And unplugging a sensor is very different from calibrating it.



Did you even take the time to read the thread I posted? The sensor was installed "professionally" (aka by myself), AEM just refused to do anything about their Taiwanese product failing after 5k miles. End of story.

lllllll @ this..
The problem Lies within link not supporting AEM properly why because AEM is a competitor, also its true you have to pull the sensor of the Innovate to do a correct calibrate. pushing the button does a basic calibration and half the time it does nothing..

If Aem was bad it wouldnt be What every real tuner recommends or every dyno puts in your exhaust to get accurate reading..

So down the road if you decide to go with dsmlink thats great if your goal is 400hp if you want something reliable Get AEM v1 or v2 and AEM wideband for reliable high hp

 

[WES_393]

How would my tuner (who is also me BTW) have anything to do with my gauge reading differently than my datalogs? It's supposedly a simple as selecting the correct input in Link. Unless the gauge is faulty...

Straight from their site

I want to state up front that we here at ECMTuning do not particularly care for the AEM WB kits. Of all the kits we support for datalogging purposes, customers seem to have FAR more problems getting the AEM WB kit to log correctly than any other kit out there. The problem is that there are several different "versions" of the AEM WB kit and very few seem to produce output voltages that actually match the documented figures.

This has nothing to do with "compatibility" with ECMLink. It has to do with AEM WB kits producing weak and hard to define signal mappings. That's why you'll find several different "goofy looking" AEM WB options listed inside ECMLink for datalogging and that's why we have a page here dedicated specifically to the AEM WB.

It's just such a nightmare to support this kit that we have even given passing thought to dropping support for it entirely. The update rate is horrible (or at least it used to be...I believe their latest kit listed below is actually a good bit better about this), the driver circuitry is weak and the output voltages rarely match what they are supposed to. So it's just a really undesirable WB kit for a number of reasons.

But, we don't really plan on dropping support for it because as bad as it is for datalogging, it seems to be the WB kit of choice for a large number of people. Just keep in mind if you buy one of these WB kits and plan to datalog it with your DSM ECU, you may find that you have to spend a good bit of time getting it working right.

From a simple search on here.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/377527-aem-wideband-problems.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/448737-aem-uego-problems.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/425399-aem-wideband-problem.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/445973-aem-uego-wb-problems.html

And that was just the first 4 of some 1,000 results...

I'm not saying using an AEM Wideband will end in disaster, I'm saying they are more trouble then they're worth. And when it breaks, AEM will just shrug their shoulders and stick out their bottom lip. I'm saying if you have 200 bucks in your pocket and you want a wideband, buy an Innovate.

 

[Paintballaa5]

He means accurate as in AEM units rarely log correctly in Link. Who care about "fast" when your gauge reads 17:1 and Link says 10:1. The guys from ECM Tuning have even openly stated that the AEM unit's are too weak to work correctly with DSMLink.

I can vouch for this, as my AEM does not read correctly in link. Even when I adjust it and it seems to be reading right at idle, it seems to be off at WOT. And then days later it will be off at idle again.

 

[acidreian]

I can vouch for this, as my AEM does not read correctly in link. Even when I adjust it and it seems to be reading right at idle, it seems to be off at WOT. And then days later it will be off at idle again.

not to say that AEM dont read correct inside Link but go to a Dyno where you know the AF is correct and compare whos right.. def wont be the LC1 or MTX

 

[Paintballaa5]

not to say that AEM dont read correct inside Link but go to a Dyno where you know the AF is correct and compare whos right.. def wont be the LC1 or MTX

That's the thing though, the majority of us tune ourselves.

 

[clipto]

Lol please don't start a competition thread. To Crash429 please buy whatever wideband you want/like. Just don't buy narrowband that will tell you an estimate from the ecu and absolutely nothing that is actually going on.

 

[Joethefallen23]

I've had two separate AEMs reading anywhere from .3-.6 off on this car alone! It read wrong on every logging source in my and my local dyno's possession. It was .4 off on my bud's Evo, .3 off on my my bud 350z, .4 off my brother's honda, and .3 off my 3G project I have lying around. We all switched over to innovate back in the day as we were sick of it. I think the only one who isn't within .1 accuracy is my bro, but he runs so ####ing rich, like an idiot of course, that his sensor is probably covered in soot. Still reads no more than .2 off.

AEM makes great gauges, but they have some SERIOUS issues with their UEGO controllers.

 

[DeadlyScone]

How would my tuner (who is also me BTW) have anything to do with my gauge reading differently than my datalogs? It's supposedly a simple as selecting the correct input in Link. Unless the gauge is faulty...


And that was just the first 4 of some 1,000 results...

I'm not saying using an AEM Wideband will end in disaster, I'm saying they are more trouble then they're worth. And when it breaks, AEM will just shrug their shoulders and stick out their bottom lip. I'm saying if you have 200 bucks in your pocket and you want a wideband, buy an Innovate.

I take it you never used an AEM UEGO while tuning? Sure it may be off a tad. All you have to do is adjust the voltage in link until it reads right which is fairly simple and fast to do. I enjoy mine and have had it in the NB spot for 10k+ miles.

 

[Paintballaa5]

I take it you never used an AEM UEGO while tuning? Sure it may be off a tad. All you have to do is adjust the voltage in link until it reads right which is fairly simple and fast to do. I enjoy mine and have had it in the NB spot for 10k+ miles.

PLEASE tell me how to do this, because I have yet to get mine right..

(That was serious, not sarcastic.

 

[clipto]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDRI_0yWdjQ]Calibrating AEM UEGO Wideband with DSMLink/ECMLink - YouTube[/ame]
v3narrowbandsim [ECMTuning - wiki]

 

[NHerron]

I take it you never used an AEM UEGO while tuning?

Maybe you didn't read his post #9.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-parts-feedback-reviews/452518-aem-uego-never-again.html

Everyone can argue all they want. General consensus is the LC-1, across the web. Simple as that.

I will say this, complaining about calibrating vs 'not having to calibrate'?

Okay so one car brand says to change oil every 5k miles. Other brand says you don't have to. Well then I'll 'waste' my money.

 

[Paintballaa5]

Calibrating AEM UEGO Wideband with DSMLink/ECMLink - YouTube
v3narrowbandsim [ECMTuning - wiki]

Have tried what he explains in that video many times.
This however, is new to me:

"The best way to determine your own switch point is to datalog the wideband kit while running closed loop off a stock narrowband sensor and then simply take an average of the raw wideband voltage (available in the datalog as a Raw value) while the narrowband sensor is cycling normally."

Not sure if that's just for narrowband simulation or not, but I'll be giving it a shot.

 

[DeadlyScone]

Maybe you didn't read his post #9.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-parts-feedback-reviews/452518-aem-uego-never-again.html

Everyone can argue all they want. General consensus is the LC-1, across the web. Simple as that.

I will say this, complaining about calibrating vs 'not having to calibrate'?

Okay so one car brand says to change oil every 5k miles. Other brand says you don't have to. Well then I'll 'waste' my money.

I do agree with a PnP WB w/ no calibration needed, I'am sure the others work great it's just i have an AEM UEGO and have not had any issues once calibrated.