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wideband setups + dsmlink + logging setup?

GeneralChaos

Proven Member
366
1
Feb 13, 2004
Belleville, Michigan
Putting this in here instead of newbie section because I figure ill get legit answers in this forum.


Ive been searching my butt off all morning but not finding much besides a headache so its time to just ask.

I decided to get DSM link but its obviously going to be a good idea to have a wideband setup.

The thing is, I dont really need or want the logger box that come with most if I have dsmlink do I? It seems like I should just be able to get all the wideband sensors/cables and hook it directly to my computer so I can just log with dsmlink.

trying to save myself a few bucks here but im not really sure how it all goes together or what system is optimal for it.

I know I could buy dsmlink and get on the forums and ask but id rather buy both at the same time.

And if I have a setup like this I dont need a bunch of stupid gauges do I? I dont want a cluster **** of gauges all over my car like EGT, A/F ect if I only need them for when im actually tuning the car, and the laptop will give me numbers I need. Id rather keep gauges to a minimum like 2....boost and fuel pressure. :confused:


someone point me in the right direction please
 

jtmcinder

DSM Wiseman
5,403
87
Nov 4, 2003
Iowa City, Iowa
No, you do not need a logger, but you still need the controller. A WB O2 sensor is not just a fancy version of a stock O2 sensor, because it works in a different manner. You need the controller to convert the output from the WB O2 sensor to a meaningful range of values (such as 0-1 V [narrow-band] or 0-5 V [wide-band]). You also need the controller to - are you ready for this? - control it, as in turn the heater on.

If you are getting DSM Link, then I would consider getting something like a AEM or PLX WB because these provide 0-1 V (narrow-band) and 0-5 V (wide-band) outputs at the same time. You can use the narrow-band output as the input to the ECU for closed-loop (using the stock input wires for the front O2 sensor) and use the wide-band output as the input to the ECU for logging (using the input wires for the rear O2 or EGR temp). This way, the WB sensor can be put in the bung where the stock front O2 sensor was (and you can plug the rear bung) and you can sell both of your stock O2 sensors on eBay to recoup some of the cost.

- Jtoby

ps. also on your list really needs to be a GM 3- or 3.5-bar MAP sensor to replace the MDP sensor for accurate boost logging; you don't need the MDP once you have DSMLink because you can shut off the DTC for EGR (and block the EGR off, if you wish)
 

GeneralChaos

Proven Member
366
1
Feb 13, 2004
Belleville, Michigan
Thanks for the info JT, but I figured the controller controlled it :p

So by the looks of things, I need something similar to a 1 channel (im guessing) AEM EUGO controller ($480 OMG ) hook the controller up to my ECU, install the wideband sensor in the first o2 bung and remove the second bung (or in other words, get or make a o2 eliminator exhaust). then hook the sensor to the controller so it runs through that before it goes on to the ECU.

Then does the controller have to be connected to the laptop (if thats possible)? It sounds like the ECU will be getting the correct signals from the controller so dsmlink will be getting the correct information.


If im right on this, lookin at about $1000 for a whole tuning setup? that is of coarse if I dont go sale hunting.


Need to look a bit more into this before I buy though. Dont need to make stupid purchases.

Let me know if I have this ack basswards.
 

Staytuned

Proven Member
1,590
27
Jan 31, 2004
Kingston, ON_Canada
So in the meantime if I run my 0-5v output line from my AEM wideband controller into my ECU through the rear O2 input I can also log the data with my pocket logger? Now I will just have to learn what voltage values correspond with A/F ratio's.
 

jtmcinder

DSM Wiseman
5,403
87
Nov 4, 2003
Iowa City, Iowa
You don't need any separate logging system. By hooking the 0-5 V (wide-band) output from the the controller to something like the EGR temp or rear O2 sensor input to the ECU, you make the wide-band data available to DSMLink for graphing and logging.

There are many other ways to hook it up, but in no case do you need a separate logger. You're going to love DSMLink.

- Jtoby
 

Staytuned

Proven Member
1,590
27
Jan 31, 2004
Kingston, ON_Canada
Jtoby I don't have the DSMLink yet I just have my good ol' AFC and my logger. But for know I can log the rear O2 data when I hook up the output form my AEM to the ECU right?
 

GeneralChaos

Proven Member
366
1
Feb 13, 2004
Belleville, Michigan
so does it sound like I have a decent grasp on the idea?

is there anything else just like the aem eugo that is cheaper but just as good?

there will be no EGT readings right?

What about all the silly gauges I mentioned?



I hate how once you start to not feel like a noob anymore you quickly realise you still are :shhh:
 

karbon

Proven Member
906
4
Feb 23, 2004
Akron, Ohio
jtmcinder said:
No, you do not need a logger, but you still need the controller. A WB O2 sensor is not just a fancy version of a stock O2 sensor, because it works in a different manner. You need the controller to convert the output from the WB O2 sensor to a meaningful range of values (such as 0-1 V [narrow-band] or 0-5 V [wide-band]). You also need the controller to - are you ready for this? - control it, as in turn the heater on.

This is true...but it's not only the heater that is controlled by the controller. A wideband sensor is also a combination of the sensor itsself and an oxygen pump. WBO2 sensors don't generate voltages on their own.
Native wideband support is on the "long term to-do" list so don't hold your breath. I think we'll see native MAF support before then.
 

markgholland

Proven Member
316
0
Jun 7, 2003
Williston, Vermont
The only thing that an EGT gauge tells you is when your ECU is pulling timing for various reasons. Given that, you don't need one. Just one more thing to worry you :)

Look into the PLX WB units. They have a few different options, but I think it's a safe assumtion to say that the most common selection is the M-300 unit. They vary in prices depending on the "bling" factor.

Once you receive your DSMlink, you will be very pleased with the customer support available throught their forums.

Regards!
~Mark
 

karbon

Proven Member
906
4
Feb 23, 2004
Akron, Ohio
markgholland said:
The only thing that an EGT gauge tells you is when your ECU is pulling timing for various reasons.
My EGT gauge doesn't tell me that, I got ripped off! All it tells me is how hot the exhaust is. Where'd you buy your EGT gauge?
 

GeneralChaos

Proven Member
366
1
Feb 13, 2004
Belleville, Michigan
:confused:

uhhh mark you just confused the crap out of me.

from the looks of what your saying im correct in assuming all the stupid gauges are useless besides boost and fuel pressure? that would be nice.
 

markgholland

Proven Member
316
0
Jun 7, 2003
Williston, Vermont
GeneralChaos said:
:confused:

uhhh mark you just confused the crap out of me.

from the looks of what your saying im correct in assuming all the stupid gauges are useless besides boost and fuel pressure? that would be nice.

This is way off topic. If you really want to know, PM me. Otherwise, search.

Regards!
~Mark
 

espinelli

Proven Member
398
1
Nov 16, 2002
Chicago, Illinois
GeneralChaos said:
hook the controller up to my ECU, install the wideband sensor in the first o2 bung and remove the second bung (or in other words, get or make a o2 eliminator exhaust). then hook the sensor to the controller so it runs through that before it goes on to the ECU.

GeneralChaos I would be leary of installing your WideBand O2 sensor in your front bung/O2 housing. They should be installed at least 30+ inches away from the header because the exhaust heat will kill them quickly. You don't want to be replacing $125+ sensors every couple months. I left my front 02 sensor in and removed the rear 02 sensor and placed my WB in the second O2 bung. Also keep in mind that the AEM and FJO do not meter below 10:1, some of the others do read as rich as 9:1. I'm not sure if that will be an issue for you. It wasn't for me, as my tunes are well above 10:1 and I use a AEM WBO2 with no complaints. I wouldn't advise getting the face gauge.....just stick with the controller and tap the signal into DSMLink. Works great.
 

karbon

Proven Member
906
4
Feb 23, 2004
Akron, Ohio
markgholland said:
I just responded to someone else trying to be smart... why else would you exhaust get "hot" besides a severe lean condition?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1407382#post1407382

Regards!
~Mark

Thanks, but I already know what detonation is.
"Wut's this "knock" thingie on my logur 4?" Don't look at that! Use your EGT gauge! Just kidding. :thumb:
Don't let knock turn into detonation like our friend here. An EGT gauge is a okay safety blanket, but if you have DSMLink, not only is your CEL on by this time (over 5 counts), but your boost gauge will be pegged with the knock it's showing.
 

GeneralChaos

Proven Member
366
1
Feb 13, 2004
Belleville, Michigan
espinelli said:
GeneralChaos I would be leary of installing your WideBand O2 sensor in your front bung/O2 housing. They should be installed at least 30+ inches away from the header because the exhaust heat will kill them quickly. You don't want to be replacing $125+ sensors every couple months. I left my front 02 sensor in and removed the rear 02 sensor and placed my WB in the second O2 bung. Also keep in mind that the AEM and FJO do not meter below 10:1, some of the others do read as rich as 9:1. I'm not sure if that will be an issue for you. It wasn't for me, as my tunes are well above 10:1 and I use a AEM WBO2 with no complaints. I wouldn't advise getting the face gauge.....just stick with the controller and tap the signal into DSMLink. Works great.

Yea I took that into consideration. I think on my stock exhaust im going to replace my rear o2 bung with the wideband, and when I get an aftermarket I will have to see where the bung is installed, and maybe install a second one for myself.
 

flinguist

Proven Member
935
14
Jun 23, 2003
Rockwood, Michigan
Well I guess if the original poster wants to use a wide band w/ DSM Link, he'll have to buy "the Link" first. Then he can read about how to do it in the forums. You can try searching the websites/forums for the type of wideband you're going to use for some info. on using it w/ DSM Link. I know the AEM UEGO forums have some info. on using DSM Link.
 

GeneralChaos

Proven Member
366
1
Feb 13, 2004
Belleville, Michigan
I pretty much know what to do to make the eugo and link work together I think.

My question is, all the wideband will really do is let me tune more precisely? like better a/f readings and better knock information?

Theres quite a few people who have said the wideband isnt really necessary but I have a hard time beleiving that.
 

espinelli

Proven Member
398
1
Nov 16, 2002
Chicago, Illinois
GeneralChaos said:
Theres quite a few people who have said the wideband isnt really necessary but I have a hard time beleiving that.

Lets just say once you have the luxury of owning one, I think it would be very hard to go back. I like mine AEMWB and it works great w/ DSMLink. The guys on the DSMLink forum are very helpful as well :thumb: . From personal experience, when I tuned in the past I thought I was running a good AF ratio...when I installed a WBO2, I couldn't believe how rich of tune I had.

If you don't have a WB02 you still tune around knock..plenty of guys have gone fast before WB's were out.
 

GeneralChaos

Proven Member
366
1
Feb 13, 2004
Belleville, Michigan
yea thats what I figured, Im just gonna buy it since what I plan to do and I can get one for $250 so not a big deal.
 

eclipsefwd

Proven Member
130
0
Feb 25, 2003
Toledo, Ohio
A wideband is a great tool, but by no means absolutely neccessary. I ran 11's all last year on a logger, eprom chip and safc. If you just watch your timing advance and knock you can get a very nice tune. Obviously you can be more precise with a wbo2, but if your goals aren't too fast I don't see the need for one.

Also, look at all the fast guys back in the day before widebands were used. Just my 2 cents.

Ryan
 
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