Wideband O2 sensor in stock position

[soldave]

One of the features of the new version of ECMLink that might be implemented is narrowband simulation. The idea is that you use your wideband O2 sensor in the stock O2 housing location in place of the normal O2 sensor and that controls everything as well as logging your AFRs. However, am a little concerned about placing the O2 sensor from my AEM Uego wideband that close to the turbo when I'm running EGTs measured at a peak of 1550F just before the turbo.

Wonder if anyone has had experience with a wideband sensor there, and especially if you've had a sensor fail on you that you could definitely attribute to heat degradation of the sensor. I know people will come in saying it will shorten the life of the O2 sensor but am wondering if anyone has actually tried this and got any real world results.

 

[twdorris]

One of the features of the new version of ECMLink that might be implemented is narrowband simulation.

To clarify, he's referring to the EVO3 version. And that function is definitely there already and will be included with the release, FWIW.

Dave and I have talked a bit off line about this before, but I wanted to post my own data here to get the ball rolling. I run my own wideband sensor in the stock front O2 location and I run HOT and HARD at the road course as well as daily driving for days on end. But, I don't put 40,000 miles a year on my car like I used to either... I'm putting maybe 5,000 a year on the DSM. But much of that is 30 minute all out sessions, wide open throttle nearly the whole time pushing 25-30psi.

With that said, I have *so far* not had a wideband sensor fail in the front O2 location. So, like Dave, I'm really curious to know if anyone actually has and if they were able to attribute the failure to installation location. For example, if you had 3 WB O2s fail in the front O2 location over some period of time and then moved it further downstream or installed a heatsink of some sort and never had one fail again... That type of data would be very interesting to hear.

Thomas Dorris
ECMTuning, Inc.

 

[soldave]

Thanks for clearing that up

 

[redyute1]

Lc1 stock location pushing 15 psi daily driven,so far not a single problem,3 months encounting.(knocking on the wall)

 

[Calan]

Any updates on this?

I just relocated my WB sensor to the stock O2 housing location, and I'm gonna give simulated O2 a shot. And I had horrendous lag on my WB, so hopefully this should help with that.

 

[rts91tsi]

I have the AEM UEGO gauge WB02 setup installed on my car. I installed the WB in the stock location about 11 months and 30,000 miles ago and it's still working. I daily drive my car about 80 miles a day, on 93 octane.

 

[twdorris]

Yeah, no problems here. I just got back from Summit Point on Monday where the car was put through another round of the typical heavy road course duty and no problems at all. The poor Talon was used by two drivers tag teaming the whole day and still no issues. I think it's a myth that you "shouldn't" install a WB sensor in the front O2 location. I've yet to hear of anyone having a problem there that can be confirmed to be related to heat/location.

Thomas Dorris

 

[jjrock5]

Sorry for the noob question but how does the wideband o2 sensor take place of the factory one? By this I mean how is the wideband o2 hooked up/integrated so it can give the car the information that the stock o2 sensor once gave the car/ecu?

 

[Calan]

Sorry for the noob question but how does the wideband o2 sensor take place of the factory one? By this I mean how is the wideband o2 hooked up/integrated so it can give the car the information that the stock o2 sensor once gave the car/ecu?

It's handled through software. Some wideband units have a dedicated simulated NB output that you can tie to the ECU in place of the factory sensor. But in the case of ECMLink, it monitors the WB signal directly and simulates a NB signal from that, and passes it through to the other code as if the factory sensor was still in place.

The benefits of this are:

1. One less sensor to worry about
2. An extra ECU input becomes available
3. You can change the switching point of the simulated signal for better fuel economy

My relocation is working great so far, with a much smoother WB signal and a little less delay.

 

[97ebaygst]

Sorry for the noob question but how does the wideband o2 sensor take place of the factory one? By this I mean how is the wideband o2 hooked up/integrated so it can give the car the information that the stock o2 sensor once gave the car/ecu?

that's a great question cause I've been wondering that myself.
I plan on getting an innovate lc-1 and was wondering if I have to have the gauge because I am also getting datalogging software (evoscan) to read that or should I just get it for added safety

 

[asg1089]

so, if i am understanding this correctly, you can just install your wideband sensor in the stock front o2 location and completely get rid of your rear o2 sensor? just as long as you have ecmlink v3 to simulate the narrowband readings?

 

[Calan]

so, if i am understanding this correctly, you can just install your wideband sensor in the stock front o2 location and completely get rid of your rear o2 sensor? just as long as you have ecmlink v3 to simulate the narrowband readings?

Close...you can install your wideband sensor in the stock front o2 location and completely get rid of your front o2 sensor. I assume you wouldn't be running a rear O2 anyway at that point.

The wideband will still be connected to whatever ECU pin that you installed it on.

 

[97gst_spyder]

For an AEM Uego, is it P04? For nb sim.

 

[swedeGSX]

I've been running my Zeitronix WB in stock o2 location for 3,5 years and it's working fine. And I drive my car every day, running a 16g at 19psi. So I say go for it.

 

[LiquidX]

I'm considering running my wideband in my o2 housing but I'm discouraged by how short the sensor wire is. I will be using the Innovate LC-1 on my setup. The questions I would like to know are.

1. Is there a way to lengthen the sensor wire that plugs into the LC-1 controller?
2. In the absence of #1, how does everyone have theirs setup in the engine bay?
Running the wideband wire to the same location as the stock narrowband wire? Where and how do you have the LC-1 controller mounted (or another brand of controller)?

Can you post pictures of the setup if running the stock length wire from the sensor and attaching to the control box in the engine bay.

 

[turbosax2]

1. I asked Innovate about this. They make no extension harnesses for the the sensor and do not recommend lengthening the wires. So do this at your own risk.

 

[LiquidX]

I saw this for an extension but not quite sure what it's for. Has the same plug that goes into the controller that the sensor would have but in the picture it has the 3.5mm input on the opposite end.

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Innovate Motorsports 18 ft. Sensor Cable


I just really need to see how people have their setup hooked up in the engine bay as it would most likely need to follow the stock o2 sensor wire.

 

[Baron4406]

Yes you can if you have a sensor that preheats itself (like the LC-1 I have) and not start your car until the sensor is pre-heated. Exhaust across a cold senors will kill it eventually.

 

[LiquidX]

Yes you can if you have a sensor that preheats itself (like the LC-1 I have) and not start your car until the sensor is pre-heated. Exhaust across a cold senors will kill it eventually.

This doesn't make much sense at all for what is being discussed.


I take it no one has pictures of their setups involving front o2 wideband placement and how they are routing the wiring and mounting of the controller (looking at you Calan and twdorris )

 

[Hubbard 0]

AEM specifically states in it's installation instructions to put it 36" inches away from a turbo. I'm sure they weren't just making that up. Mine is in the rear O2 sensor location.

 

[LiquidX]

The location isn't going to matter. I'm looking for people that have it in the front o2 location running narrow band simulation so I can see pictures of how the controller was mounted in the engine bay, where it's located and how the wiring was routed.

 

[Calan]

Scott... the wiring for my WB goes from the sensor in the O2 housing across the stock heat shield clips (for now..until I install the FP race manifold), and then through the firewall. My Zietronix box is sitting behind the ECU under the dash.

 

[LiquidX]

So your wideband sensor wire is long enough to maki it to the fire wall? My sensor cable from the LC-1 Bosch sensor is only about 2 feet or so. The sensor connects to the LC-1 controller box after those 2 or so feet and then I have a lot of wire that will make it to the firewall and inside. Just trying to find out about the box placement and all.

 

[Calan]

So your wideband sensor wire is long enough to maki it to the fire wall?

And then some. I actually have it looped a few times under the battery, before it goes through the firewall.

With the Zietronix ZT-2, the sensor itself is spliced and shrink wrapped into another cable that has a plug on the end, which then connects to an extension cable that goes to the box. In all there is probably 8 feet or so of loomed cable between the sensor and control box.

 

[LiquidX]

You lucky Son of a Honda

It would be nice to extend the wire but Innovate doesn't have an extension cord for the the sensor. I have heard that extending the wires can affect the signal quality from the sensor however.