why so much knock log inside

[TheGameTG]

i replace the knock sensor and still same thing and this is the log after replaced the knock sensor and at 471 seconds i did a -1 to the timing from 2000rpms to 6000-rpms.

mod list if you really want to call it that is (91 talon awd 5 speed) walbro 255 aeromotive afpr set at 43, 3 inch exausht no cats and the everything else is stock 14b turbo. if i get on the two step there is no knock

 

[dsmgst1996]

Your throttle posistion sensor need to be adjusted and the only reason your not seen knock before you are is be cause you have it set to only read knock after 3200 rpms. I would check base timing make sure that was right.

 

[TheGameTG]

it was set at 2200 rpms before it still wouldent knock on the two step.
how do you set the tps and i just got link 2 days ago the only thing i set was two step what are soem other things i need to check on link and set

heres a new log after i turned down the fuel pressure about 3 psi down to about 40 and i added more captured values

 

[dsmgst1996]

to check tps I use values in chiltons and a ohm meter make sure wot is 100% on tps there are many write up on here about how to check it .

 

[TheGameTG]

I don't have a ad setup just stock 1g maf

 

[dsmgst1996]

You need to add alittle fuel and pull some timing out your why advanced

 

[TheGameTG]

I pulled alot of timing out I don't know it had so much

 

[dsmgst1996]

Do you have a new log ?

 

[WES_393]

You need to add alittle fuel and pull some timing out your why advanced

I'm not sure what your basis is for this. The OP is running stock timing and fuel tables. The ignition timing may be advanced, but that's factory settings and just fine for stock boost and compression ratio. Even so, the ECU is aiming for 18-19* and the OP is only getting 3-6* at WOT. And the targeted AFR is pig rich. They should eventually start taking fuel, not adding it.


OP- How old is the knock sensor? Do you know if the engine still has stock pistons (and compression)? Do you have any abnormal noises coming from the engine, such as severe lifter tick? That's a lot of knock at your boost and airflow levels. I did notice your Injector Duty Cycle is on the high side, at 5300rpm your IDC is 88%. Not saying that's the problem, but I wouldn't try to push more than stock boost until you upgrade.

Start by checking mechanical and base ignition timing. Do a boost leak test as well. Then follow these videos:
ECMTuning, Inc.

If your problem still persists, take 2 logs: One at idle with the car warmed up, and one of a 3rd gear WOT pull from 2k to redline. You should still let off the gas if the CEL comes on, but post the log anyways.

 

[mchustle]

Sounds like the Cas is advanced maybe, or you may actually be getting rich knock instead of timing. I'm on my phone so I can't pull up the log right now to look at it but what Wes said is where I would start. For the tps sensor that is one of the great perks of link, instead of getting out there and messing with the bolts and adjusting etc you simply start a log with the car in the on position but not running and push the gas peddle all the way to the floor and let off a few times, then stop the log, right click where all the data is and click on tps adjust and it will set it for you.

 

[TheGameTG]

log from last night and the timing tables were way off compared to a picture of a stock 1g talon i cleaned it up a bit lowered the fuel press down some as well

did a 3rd gear pull from 2k with adjusted tps

I'm not sure what your basis is for this. The OP is running stock timing and fuel tables. The ignition timing may be advanced, but that's factory settings and just fine for stock boost and compression ratio. Even so, the ECU is aiming for 18-19* and the OP is only getting 3-6* at WOT. And the targeted AFR is pig rich. They should eventually start taking fuel, not adding it.


OP- How old is the knock sensor? Do you know if the engine still has stock pistons (and compression)? Do you have any abnormal noises coming from the engine, such as severe lifter tick? That's a lot of knock at your boost and airflow levels. I did notice your Injector Duty Cycle is on the high side, at 5300rpm your IDC is 88%. Not saying that's the problem, but I wouldn't try to push more than stock boost until you upgrade.

Start by checking mechanical and base ignition timing. Do a boost leak test as well. Then follow these videos:
ECMTuning, Inc. I changed the


If your problem still persists, take 2 logs: One at idle with the car warmed up, and one of a 3rd gear WOT pull from 2k to redline. You should still let off the gas if the CEL comes on, but post the log anyways.

Knock sensor is two days old

 

[WES_393]

You can find the stock fuel and timing tables here:
v3configs [ECMTuning - wiki]

I'd try loading the stock 1g fuel and timing tables first, but you might also try the stock Evo timing tables. They're less aggressive than the stock 1g tables.

Also, you need to raise the fuel pressure back up to stock. Your IDC's are currently over 100% which is very dangerous. If anything raise the fuel pressure a few PSI, but don't forget to adjust the global and deadtime as well.

 

[TheGameTG]

I got it set back to stock timing tables and af tables yea I have the fuel pressure at 40 with vac off because I have a 1g Manuel which calls for 38.5

I'm going to set it back to 43

 

[dsmcurse]

your car is a 22year old ride man, how good of condition is are the axles and tie rods and wheel bearings? sounds crazy but the driver side axle (the long one) can set your knock sensor off. if the CV joint was goin bad or gettin clunky it can makee vibrations in the carrier bearing that bolts up to the block. the axle thats bolted up to the block can transfer vibration from that wheel and the carrier bearing aginst the block will put alot of outa the ordinary vibration aginst the engine. knock sensor can pick this up.

also, its possible to accidently screw the knock sensor in the wrong hole on the back of the block. theres a lower threaded bung and a upper threaded bung on the back of the block. the knock sensor can screw into either hole. it goes on the upper hole. the upper hole is closest to the combustion chamber where all the magic happens. the lower one would make the knock sensor more likely to be set off by bad wheel bearing or bad axle vibration.

in link set knock sensor warning for check engine light at 2 counts of knock. verify your screwd into the correct hole, verify you dont have any rolling or steering vibrations. start with the easy and more ovbious stuff befor digging into laptop settings and messin with the tune on a mostly stock car. good luck and keep us posted on what you find out.

 

[TheGameTG]

Lol u right about the axles tho both the front axles are bad but I thought they would only make sound when you turning

 

[dsmcurse]

boom. theres your problem garentee ya. trust me man, 12 years experience mechanic here talkin. the long axle has a carrier bearing that bolts up the back of the engine block. if theres bad rolling or steering clunks or vibration it can set off the knock sensor. ive also seen knock sensors screwed into the wrong bungs on toyots and nissans and our 4G63 mitsubishi engine is especially easy to accidently do this to. make sure your screwed into the correct hole, fix the axle proble. i promise the knock sensor poppin off will go away after you do this

sometimes its most easy to start with the simple explanation, not just in cars but in life in general. takes awhile to pick up this kinda thinking. theres no need to switch your fuel maps and mess with timing and all this mumbo-jumbo. what would you have done 10 years ago befor dsmlink?

if you had a data logger or a scan tool that could stream live data then you would relize you saw counts of knock. but what would a guy do about it back then? there was no laptop to push buttons on! so he had to figure this problem out the old fashion way.

trust me, theres no need to mess with the tune or f*ck with laptop buttons and all that, fix your rolling/steering vibration/clunky-ness and you'll be golden

 

[WES_393]

^ I somewhat agree. Noises from the chassis can set off the knock sensor, aka Phantom Knock. That's exactly why I asked about noises in post #9.

However, there are still obvious issues here. With stock maps the ECU is pulling enough timing to result in ATDC timing throughout the entire pull. Were not talking just a few degrees of phantom knock, were talking enough knock to spit a rod onto the pavement. And at stock fuel pressure the IDC's are over 100% which is very dangerous and possibly a contributing factor here. So I see no point in ignoring the datalogs and disregarding an advanced diagnostics tool just for the sake of doing things the old fashioned way.

 

[TheGameTG]

I will check base timing tommorow and set fuel pressure back up I think base timing is off as well

 

[dsmcurse]

ignore the fact that you have dsmlink for 5 minutes, have the car fully warmed up and check timing with a timing light. fully warm with all lights and accessories off get the car to idle 8-900 rpm. un-plug the weather protector cap on the timing control wire (found on the fire wall) with paper clip (also known as a roach clip) grounding the lil baby contact in there to the fire wall the timing light (hooked up to number one plug wire, closest to timing belt) should read 5* and when you pull the ground wire off (do this while your still pointing timing light at crank pulley and watching timing) you'll see timing move to 8* after you un clip the ground wire.

this verifies that base ignition timing is correct. im not sure if your timing belt has been done or any of that but it wouldnt hurt to verify that your mechanical timing is correct (all timing marks line up by the book)

i havent read his profile or really looked deep at this, but its mentioned that the car is mostly stock, very close to stock, not much mods at all. so why would a stock car need all this laptop trickery and need fuel changes and all this? just because he has link doesnt mean he needs to f#ck with a bunch of settings.

after i noticed it says MOSTLY ALL STOCK and after i read where he replaced the knock sensor first thing i pictured was the new sensor accidently being screwed into the wrong hole, i then imagined the sensor picking up axle vibration from being mounted to low. so i ask homeboy if he has rolling or steering vibration and he says "ya both axle's are shot"

well there ya go, garentee he has knock retard from the engine absorbing his rolling and steering vibrations. i dont see how a mostly all stock car would have a tuning issue. and ya'd think that the factory mapping would be extreamley safe and conservative. not factory tuned where a guy needs to go in and make ecu changes. this only becomes more necessary when further mods are done. not mostly stock

 

[TheGameTG]

I will check timing tommorow well today since its 4:53 am after ill get some sleep ill check it and I set fuel pressure to 43

 

[WES_393]

i havent read his profile or really looked deep at this, but its mentioned that the car is mostly stock, very close to stock, not much mods at all. so why would a stock car need all this laptop trickery and need fuel changes and all this? just because he has link doesnt mean he needs to f#ck with a bunch of settings.

It's not just "f#cking with a bunch of settings", it's troubleshooting. If running a less aggressive timing table reduces the amount of knock, then you know it's not just a floppy axle. Which is exactly what I suggested along with properly adjusting 22 year old sensors.

i dont see how a mostly all stock car would have a tuning issue. and ya'd think that the factory mapping would be extreamley safe and conservative. not factory tuned where a guy needs to go in and make ecu changes. this only becomes more necessary when further mods are done. not mostly stock

Just because everything is stock doesn't mean it's all working properly. I'll say for the 4th time: The OP's stock fuel injectors, at stock fuel pressure and boost, are completely and totally maxed out. That points to a serious issue that would have been overlooked without DSMLink. And the stock 1g timing map is extremely aggressive. They run more timing from the factory than I do with E85.

 

[TheGameTG]

^^^^^I can check base timing thru dsm link?

 

[WES_393]

Edit- I stand corrected, you cannot check actual base ignition timing using that method.

 

[TheGameTG]

That's ####ing rape excuse my language!

was i supposed to do that lock comm mode thing but here is the log i just did it said 5 when i ground the pin thru dsm link

 

[Calan]

OP:

For one thing, you are running 43psi base pressure on a 1G (rather than 37.5psi) with no compensation in Link. What type of fuel are you running?

I suggest you do a lot of reading, and start here with diagnosing your issues:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ecm...efore-you-ask-ecmlink-dsmlink-log-advice.html

You really, REALLY need a wideband, and you need to keep your foot out of it until you get the car properly set up. By that I mean that you need to get your mods better matched before you even try to do any serious tuning on it. From the looks of it, you are pushing more air than you have fuel for, and probably have some other issues as well. But without a way to know what AFR you are really running, you are just shooting in the dark...and that has a way of getting very expensive very fast.

Also, please fill out your profile.