Which / What Oil Should I Use? [Merged]

[Calan]

Why does everyone talk about this Penn motor oil?? I have a few old time Grand National turbo gurus here, and they all tout VR1 20W50, 60w, and Rotella 15W40. People who have adhered to these here have had MUCH less issues with friction damage... So why is this Penn stuff any better/different?

Because it's inexpensive and on par with the oils you mentioned.

...suggesting running 20w50 just makes no sense.

The white paper that I linked to in post #475 explains the heavier weight oil issue, and introduced a lot of people to Brad Penn.

 

[PrimerPLus]

Here in the US, if it's an SN-rated oil available at just about any retailer, it will not contain the zinc that 7-bolt crank thrust systems and turbo thrust systems like. Even big-name oils like Mobil 1 aren't what they were as recent as 5 years ago.

If you want to guarantee your oil contains zinc, you should really run a zinc break-in additive in addition to your favorite oil. Don't be fooled by the words "break-in"...you can run it all the time. Our government makes the manufacturer state it's for break-in use only so you don't use it all of time and increase your car's emissions by .000001%.

Been searching around, would this be a good oil to run ALL THE TIME?
Royal Purple 10w30 Break in Oil
Royal Purple Engine Break-In Motor Oil (1 Quart) 10W30 - Modern Automotive Performance

 

[H@xtGSX]

I don't try to smack down anyone, and have appropriately been knocked around myself plenty of times. I just call it how I see it.

I know, you're just more direct than most, which I am Ok with... Cutting thru the BS and just saying stuff bluntly is how I am in person. I try to keep it humorous as much as I can... Some people just need a :smackdown: and it is usually amusing to witness if it isn't you on the recieving end. It is the only way to get stuff done as a manager of large scale construction projects, so I totally get it. I just find it very amusing now that I know a bit more and understand when I see it here.

(BTW this is a general statement not confined to this thread... I read a couple others today you had a hand in that were rather funny in that same "witnessing a train wreck" fashion.)

 

[Calan]

Been searching around, would this be a good oil to run ALL THE TIME?
Royal Purple 10w30 Break in Oil
Royal Purple Engine Break-In Motor Oil (1 Quart) 10W30 - Modern Automotive Performance

Probably not very cost effective compared to other oils.

Why would you want to? I thought you found the VR1?

 

[boost97gst]

Rotella is very popular and has treated my engine well since the build(around 2k miles). Its a weekend warrior and sees 25psi quite often. Oil changes every 1500 from now on is the plan. After 1k miles on the last change it looked brand new when drained out. I, like many others, use rotella 15-40. If 20 50 was a bit cheaper i would try it for sure though. Wish rotella made a 20 50 or 20 40 would be even better

 

[nuclearr]

I run Rotella T 10w-30. I buy it off the shelf when they stock it here. (They only get 3 gallons at a time)

 

[DSM_Rastafari]

not meaning to steal the post but what oil would you reccomend for me? im doing a fresh n/a rebuild built bottom end, stock head, i plan to turbo winter it will be my dd shooting for 350

 

[masterwolf420]

so you get it then?

 

[Alan11]

not meaning to steal the post but what oil would you reccomend for me? im doing a fresh n/a rebuild built bottom end stock end, i plan to turbo winter it will be my dd shooting for 350

i would go with brad penn, for the breaking period and after... the weight is up to you and where you live.

 

[masterwolf420]

Please dont put transmission oil in your engine.

When you run thicker oil the pressure increases yes but it is not moving through the engine faster. Its actually moving slower and why the pressure has gone up because you are running an oil that has more resistance to flow. Take that thick oil and think about whats its like at cold start up. Its like trying to run your engine on pure honey. Please just go by what the manufacturer recommends.

sorry i was referring to my other oils as well i should have said so.
and thats what i am saying run thinner oil.so how does know one understand me>

 

[Alan11]

so you get it then?

Soooooooo when can i see your car???

 

[DSM_Rastafari]

i would go with brad penn, for the breaking period and after... the weight is up to you and where you live.

hmm never heard of brad penn, i'll do some research on that, and what do you mean by the weight is up to you and where you live

 

[Calan]

what do you mean by the weight is up to you and where you live

There's 13 pages RIGHT HERE discussing that very question (among others). Did you read any of them?

 

[Alan11]

hmm never heard of brad penn, i'll do some research on that, and what do you mean by the weight is up to you and where you live

Personally i would run castrol full synthetic ive used it all my life in both 420a's and 4g63 enignes never had a problem with it. Brad penn is "recomended" for high performance engines, as well as royal purple and others.

By the weight i mean the viscosity for example 10w-40 with is what i use all year round and in my area is VERY hot in the summer(that doesnt mean ill be runnig honey in my engine) and not so cold in the winter. Manufacture recomends 10w-30 for our cars.

In florida i have no idea how the weather is and the altitude.

I just summarised this whole thread

There's 13 pages RIGHT HERE discussing that very question (among others). Did you read any of them?

I need to start doing that.

 

[oneslowwdsm]

This thread should have ended as soon as someone mentioned Rotella. It is perfect for high boost/high hp applications. It's also made to withstand overtime any watering down from ethanol or pump. Another good thing, it's only $20 for 4 quarts!

Usual changing habits:
Rotella t-6 5w40 oil change every 1500 miles or once a month
Mobil 1 High Performance oil filter
Redline Lightweight shockproof in transmission and t-case (3k miles so far, shifts like butter)

 

[DSM_Rastafari]

Personally i would run castrol full synthetic ive used it all my life in both 420a's and 4g63 enignes never had a problem with it. Brad penn is recomended for high performance engines, as well as royal purple and others.

By the weight i mean the viscosity for example 10w-40 with is what i use all year round and in my area is VERY hot in the summer(that doesnt mean ill be runnig honey in my engine) and not so cold in the winter. Manufacture recomends 10w-30 for our cars.

In florida i have no idea how the weather is and the altitude.

I just summarised this whole thread



I need to start doing that.

nice summary , ok so now i get it

 

[H@xtGSX]

I don't.... W T F is going on in here? WTF

This is my 2nd turbo car and 4th boosted car/truck, and I have used either Rotella 15W40 or VR1 20W50 in all of them... And the ONLY time I have had any sort of severe friction damage over the course of many rebuilds in many years is when this 7 bolt crankwalked on me. Other than that, those 2 oils have done well for me over the last decade and I will continue using them unless I saw something very conclusive saying something was better... Because I don't really buy the hype on those higher priced "high performance" oils. It sounds like and looks like a snake oil gimick to me, and I have yet to see anything that has changed that opinion...

 

[white92talontsi]

I would take that shockproof out of the Transmission ASAP. It is OK for the T-case and the Rear Diff but not the trans.

As far as the oil is concerned. No one here can recommend what oil someone needs especially if you are dealing with a built motor.

Hell one of our cars needs 20-50 Brad Penn while the other needs Amsoil 20-50 Z-Rod. Why you ask as both oils are 20-50? well one has bearing clearances that are a lot looser than the other and Brad Penn 20-50 is thicker than Amsoil 20-50.

When dealing with bearing clearances in the .0025-.0035" range 20-50 is a must and you better have a damn good oil pump.

 

[oneslowwdsm]

Why so? I have people around here that have been running it in their transmissions for a while with no problems whatsoever. IMO I've ran regular mt-90 and lightweight shockproof is a night and day difference.

I do agree with you on the oil though, a built motor is a different story. I've ran Rotella in my old 7 bolt stock block and now I'm running it in my 6 bolt block with unknown internals. (I believe 2g pistons/ 1g rods combo because I had 180psi across the board) I'm just a Rotella fanboy Makes everything run smoothly and I've had all around good experiences with it.

 

[Calan]

Why so? I have people around here that have been running it in their transmissions for a while with no problems whatsoever.

Because it contains paraffin additives that can build up in the oil galleys and cause oil starvation to bearings.

 

[white92talontsi]

Why so? I have people around here that have been running it in their transmissions for a while with no problems whatsoever. IMO I've ran regular mt-90 and lightweight shockproof is a night and day difference.

I do agree with you on the oil though, a built motor is a different story. I've ran Rotella in my old 7 bolt stock block and now I'm running it in my 6 bolt block with unknown internals. (I believe 2g pistons/ 1g rods combo because I had 180psi across the board) I'm just a Rotella fanboy Makes everything run smoothly and I've had all around good experiences with it.

Other than what Calan said about the parrifin it has also been found in the past few years that for some reason it causes gear failure.

Here is a quote from Jack from Jack's transmission regarding shockproof in the Trans.

"It has been awhile, so I thought I would share some more info on some new things we learned over the years:

Amsoil does a good job of wiping the gear teeth out under high load conditions. You will see wear which looks like someone wiped the surface of the tooth off the gear. It will then show signs of fretting.

We had a car here which was full weight and had an unbelievable amount of power. The car went through trannies very easily, so we used it as a test vehicle for some new HD gear-sets we have been working on. Before this, though, we used it to test fluids in factory geared trannies. We used 100% lightweight shockproof and it broke the factory trans teeth in short time (1 day). We then tried the Mitsu oil we sell and the car was perfect and never broke the trans. That same trans is in another car now and it has thousands of miles of use, and that trans is still on the road to this day used in a 700+ HP application with the same factory gears. This isn't the first time we discovered this either. There have been several high powered cars that have come through my shop with stripped gears in short time, but then never a problem again after the fluid change.

I love Redline shockproof products, but in the trans, we have had more gear failures with lightweight in the unit over the factory Mits gear oil. I can't explain why. In the failed units with shockproof, we have seen a very nice wear pattern on the gears (virtually none) but the gear teeth tend to unzip right off the shaft. With the Mitsu stuff, we also see a nice polished wear pattern on the gear teeth, but they won't zip off of the shaft like we see in units with the shockproof.

This makes no sense to me as fluid should have nothing to do with the gears breaking off of the shaft like that. If the gears wear quickly and break, then I could see fluid as the problem, but no wear and breakage due to fatigue in an area that doesn't need fluid? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. Maybe the shockproof isn't so shockproof, and the engine harmonics and crank torsional whip is hitting the affected area harder causing the fatigue and the failures. Not sure...

My brother has noticed the same with EVO 8-9 trannies. Customers complain of bad shift quality at high RPM with lightweight in the trans, and we have seen broken gears in the EVO trans which make no sense. Using the factory stuff, no issues ever again. My brothers personal 2.4L, 4G64, EVO 8 has had shockproof in it and he has missed a lot of shifts. With the Mitsu oil, he never misses a shift. We knew this would happen, though, due to the synchro design and the way shockproof works. My brother has talent I have never seen when it comes to fast shifting. You won't feel the shift while in the car with him, it's that fast. I don't know how he does it, but he knows when a fluid is getting in the way of a really good shift and he says shockproof sucks. I have been trying to engineer synchros for the EVO which will work better in 100% shockproof oil, but at this point, due to gear failures, I have decided not to pursue that option anymore.

I still believe Redline products are the ONLY oil to use with anything involving a ring and pinion, but for trannies, I am convinced it causes more problems than it's worth"

 

[Calan]

Very interesting. I haven't seen that ^ before.

 

[oneslowwdsm]

Hm interesting indeed. Shouldn't have I seen symptoms though of something happening with the transmission? I've been running it for quite a while and have done quite a few pulls/hard shifts and I don't have a single hiccup. My guesstimate whp is probably around 325whp-335whp but could be more or less as I have never dynod the car.

Also when was that write up posted? It could have been a long time ago and maybe Redline improved their formula since then.

 

[white92talontsi]

Hm interesting indeed. Shouldn't have I seen symptoms though of something happening with the transmission? I've been running it for quite a while and have done quite a few pulls/hard shifts and I don't have a single hiccup. My guesstimate whp is probably around 325whp-335whp but could be more or less as I have never dynod the car.

Also when was that write up posted? It could have been a long time ago and maybe Redline improved their formula since then.

You are not seeing the issue because you are not making enough power plain and simple.

This writeup was posted last month and it is recent news.

Here is what I would recommend.

Stock-350hp---Pennzoil Synchromesh
350-500hp-- MT90
500hp+- Redline 75-140ns.

Remember you do not want too slippery of a fluid in the trans either as the synchros will not function properly as they rely on friction to slow the next gear down.

This is the 75-140ns that should be ran in a higher HP car.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=39&pcid=4

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

You are not seeing the issue because you are not making enough power plain and simple.

This writeup was posted last month and it is recent news.

Here is what I would recommend.

Stock-350hp---Pennzoil Synchromesh
350-500hp-- MT90
500hp+- Redline 75-140ns.

Remember you do not want too slippery of a fluid in the trans either as the synchros will not function properly as they rely on friction to slow the next gear down.

This is the 75-140ns that should be ran in a higher HP car.
Red Line Synthetic Oil - Gear Oil for Manual Transmissions - 75W90 NS GL-5 Gear Oil

You recommend the oil that was found to strip\break gears at hp levels?