which way should i go

[natural laser]

Alright so ive been lookin at alot of options lately on what i want to do with my 91 plymouth laser. Its the n/a 2.0 dohc and please before you tell me to just sell it and get a stock turbo'd dsm thats not what i want to do. i want to keep mine because personally i like the fwd better than awd and also i like the condition mine is in. so ive had two ideas, my first is to stay n/a. was to take my block to a machine shop get it bored .020 over and get a 2.3 stroker kit. 100mm crankshaft, 87mm 10 or 10.5:1 compression pistons, new intake mani, fuel rail, thinkin 450cc injectors, 190lph fuel pump, new headers and full exhaust, 272 cams and adjustable cam gears and possibly port and polished head and 3 angle valve job. My second option is to turbo it. obviously new intake and exhaust mani, ###### 750cc injectors, fmic, thinkin a smaller turbo to spool faster and not huge psi, then obviously turbo ecu and stuff, knock sensor, cams, all that other stuff, lower compression pistons. im leaning more towards the stroker and n/a build because you dont have all the heat and maintnence issues you have with a turbo, i would have a rebuilt engine goin with the stroker kit, and of course turbo puts quite a bit more strain on the engine, im not goin to the drag strip with this, just a dd with enough power to have fun with. lemme know any ideas, suggestions, better power to money ratio on the two builds, reliability. and how cheap you think i could do the stroker build, i already know the general cost of the turbo build, all criticism is appreciated thanks.

 

[bastarddsm]

bolt a 14b to it and don't look back.

don't bother with stock shit either. get a 255hp, some 750's, a 2g maf, link or and ostrich and put the bi*** on E85 on your n/t engine. you can max out a 14b before you'll hurt the n/t bottom end. Keep it from detonating much and your golden.

 

[natural laser]

i totally get where your comin from with this idea, just another reason im so pulled to the stroker idea though is it will basically be a rebuilt engine which i imagine i need considering i have 167k miles on mine... idk ill listen to everyone and see which way to go

 

[Bflood]

Your asking which setup to do, but it sounds like to me youve already decided witch build to go with, If thats what u want to do, then u should do it, theirs nothing wrong with a n/a build, i mean you dont need a turbo to have fun with a dsm, my cusin has a bone stock Eclipse 2.0L, he loves that car, he drives that thing like a mad man everyday all day, You know, i use to have a 1.8L talon sohc, it was my first car, yeah it wasnt very fast or anything but i loved that car, it had tein lowering springs,17inch rims , asome paint job, custom intake and was very clean and good sound system, i had a dual pipe muffler welded to that thing and it looked and sounded very good, plus it was great on gas and always got me where i wanted to go, i did however go though quite a few alternators but thats beside the point, i enjoyed the car. So since ## not really racing or anything like that u should go ahead and do it, youll have a basically brandnew motor, wont have to worry about boost leaks or anything like that and plus youll be able to do burnouts all day with those motor upgrades just becarful of torquecsteer, it should be a fun car.

 

[natural laser]

Thanks for the input, i know it does sound like im pretty one sided towards the n/a build but im still partially undecided and just wanted to get everyones opinion and experience behind it before i completely decided so thanks and yea i figured as long as i do the n/a build right i will have plenty of power to have fun with cant wait to hear what others have to say on the topic though

 

[mchustle]

I say do both, but thats just me.

 

[dsmrebel084]

I say do both, but thats just me.

You and me both.

 

[JMS]

I'd vote turbo

the e85/14b idea on a stock bottom end is great, then by the time you have problems and its time to rebuilt, you'll know whether you wanna go further down the turbo path or try something else

plus I always prefer rev happy engines (if NA) that you have to flog, especially on fwd cars, so the torquey stroker just doesn't sound as fun

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

If you haven't already seen this: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-turbo-system-intercooler/48231-installing-turbo-4g63-into-nt-4g63.html

I will say that there is a reason that you don't see many (really any at all) n/t DSM builds. Turbos make cheap, reliable, bolt on power. If built correctly, you won't have any issues or "too much heat or strain" on your engine.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I did my swap with a budget under 600 bucks including the enigne, and the used 14b off ebay, most
small parts came off ebay uicp, smic and injectors.

 

[laser90]

I vote NA.....just because every NA guy says they're going to do a build and never go through with it. Im just curious what a built NA sounds and perfroms like

 

[kccombs]

Im doing the turbo conversion as we speak. Go turbo. Ive done a buil all engine. Mine is bored 50 over and yea it was quick but just not fast enough for me. With the turbo build there is a few small speed bumbs that you run into but you manage to come out of it just fine.

 

[honda_burner]

all motor!!!! i agree with laser90. not many people appreciate the car they have and try to make it something else by turboing it. i found a tsi because that is what i want. you have a non turbo 1g so go all out on it!!! good luck man!

 

[Slightlystoopod]

Honestly, I'd say turbo. E85 and a small turbo like a 14b is great. Plus, Boring an Engine and doing a stroker kit can get expensive sometimes. If you want a cheaper power then I'd suggest turbo unless you got a good deal on a Bore and Stroker upgrade. Start with one and do the one you didnt do later on the road. Which ever path you choose has great outcomes and results in a more fun car. Personally, if my car was N/A, I'd go with turbo and come on, who doesn't like the sound of a turbo and BOV or external Wastegate? Sssssssssssssssst Psssst (Gear change) ssssssssssssssssst Psssst (Gear Change)

 

[natural laser]

Thanks everyone for everything ive got alot to take into consideration, 9!eclipse i have looked at that thread a couple times actually haha. Now i know the 14b turbo swap alone if done right with bigger injectors, fuel pump, cams, and all other supporting mods will make bigger numbers than the stroker kit, i realize this but if anyone has numbers on what a average or decent 14b build numbers are and if possible a n/a stroker build numbers are that would deffinietly be helpful, again thanks everybody im listening to what everyone has to say. Now i know quite abit about everything on the two topics but one question is what kind of fuel exactly is e85, and how expensive is it as im currently and planning on just staying with 93 octane pump gas.

 

[spyder1219]

More fuel to the fire... I hate to say this but I attribute fun all motor cars to the rwd'ers. Sure we can pull the ebrake, but I don't think a beefy torquey motor up front plus fwd is going to make for a lot of fun, just a lot of understeer. A 2.3 might still be fun ### its all power at the ready, but eventually Id want to take around some turns at speed. I am an awd guy tho. So perhaps I'm biased. Lol it is awesome to see someone sticking to his guns about keeping his baby and sticking it to the "just buy a turbo car" people. Haha

 

[Slightlystoopod]

one question is what kind of fuel exactly is e85, and how expensive is it as im currently and planning on just staying with 93 octane pump gas.

E is Ethanol. so E85 is Ethanol 85, which is the ethanol rating in the fuel (85 meaning 85% Ethanol). You're running 93 Octane rating which is less than E85. Usually E85 is gas used in Flex fuel vehicles which are compatible with all types or usually all types gas. E85 is 105 ethanol rating which is used in higher combustion engines and also burns faster.

Sorry for the confusion. I was typing this while at work and did it fast and didn't pay attention to what I was saying

 

[agentorange313]

E is Ethanol. so E85 is Ethanol 85, which is the ethanol rating in the fuel (85 meaning 85% Ethanol). You're running 93 Octane which is E93. Usually E85 is gas used in Flex fuel vehicles which are compatible with all types or usually all types of Gas. (E85,E87,E89,E90,E91,E92,E93).

WTFWTF, I guess your user name wasn't just clever, j/k

93 octane gase is not E93. Like you stated the E stands for Ethanol, how can pump gas be 93 % ethanol? 93 stands for the octane rating. E85 has an octane rating ranging from 100-105.

http://www.iowarfa.org/PDF/E85_values_fund/E85 Fact Sheet.pdf

 

[knewblewkorvett]

I did my swap with a budget under 600 bucks including the enigne, and the used 14b off ebay, most
small parts came off ebay uicp, smic and injectors.

Wow that's cheap. I would not expect that to be repeated with your car.

one question is what kind of fuel exactly is e85, and how expensive is it as im currently and planning on just staying with 93 octane pump gas.

Actually, around here E85 is about a dollar cheaper than 93 octane.

IMO, keep your car as it is. Nice looking by the way.
Save all the $ you plan on spending on the rebuild and upgrades and go out find yourself another DSM, whether turbo or turbo AWD. A whole car will cost less than the upgrades you mentioned plus now you'll have two cars to drive.
Eagle : Talon | eBay
I'm actually thinking about getting her :

 

[natural laser]

I just really dont want another car though, i wanna keep it simple with just one car. on the e85 it looks like its a much better and cleaner burning fuel and would be better on my car but that read-me file also says that not only is it illegal to convert your car to e85? but also the fact that you have to somehow convert your car to run e85 and currently my car would not be able to run it, but shit if its a dollar cheaper per gallon sign me up, better gas for cheaper. Just gotta see if there is anywhere around here that has e85 at the pump?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

E is Ethanol. so E85 is Ethanol 85, which is the ethanol rating in the fuel (85 meaning 85% Ethanol). You're running 93 Octane which is E93. Usually E85 is gas used in Flex fuel vehicles which are compatible with all types or usually all types of Gas. (E85,E87,E89,E90,E91,E92,E93).

What are you talking about? Read about E-85 here: E85 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I just really dont want another car though, i wanna keep it simple with just one car. on the e85 it looks like its a much better and cleaner burning fuel and would be better on my car but that read-me file also says that not only is it illegal to convert your car to e85? but also the fact that you have to somehow convert your car to run e85 and currently my car would not be able to run it, but shit if its a dollar cheaper per gallon sign me up, better gas for cheaper. Just gotta see if there is anywhere around here that has e85 at the pump?

E-85 has the octane rating of about 105 octane so it is like cheap race gas. This makes it very knock resistant and thus great for turbo engines. Yes, you need a way to tune your car with e-85. I use ECMlink v3 but any tuning system that allows you to adjust your fuel trims will work. You also need to use about 33% more fuel with e-85 so you need to make sure you have enough fuel pump and injectors. The main downside is that it's not available everywhere yet. Where I live it's about $.50-.70 cents less then 91 octane. As far as the legality of converting to E-85, I don't know. I know that in most states its illegal to modify your exhaust system or your emissions control devices but most of us do that anyway.

 

[natural laser]

Well pretty positive im decided on going with the all n/a build so get payed on the 20th to start this project and ill be posting things on my page as i start

 

[bryanwheat]

For what you are going to spend on the na build you can buy a turbo 4g63 engine and transmission and bolt it in your car and go WAY faster than you will n/a. You will be lucky to get 200 horsepower na, you will be at 200 easily on a stock turbo 6 bolt.

 

[natural laser]

with a stroker kit i could easily break 200 hp n/a and you dont need a turbo tranny, the n/a tranny is actually better because its shorter gear ratios

 

[bryanwheat]

with a stroker kit i could easily break 200 hp n/a and you dont need a turbo tranny, the n/a tranny is actually better because its shorter gear ratios

According to who? Just adding a larger stroke is going to net you some torque and change the power band a bit, but it isn't going to make drastically more power.