which coilovers to choose

[coupe_nasty]

So ive narrowed my selection down to BC coilovers and DGR coilovers. Both are around $1000. Anyone have any input to either of these brands?

 

[Ludachris]

@jtmcinder What is your opinion on the teins? I know you recommend the Koni/GC setup, but what's your input on the tein ss setup?

Let me take a shot at what I think he'll say.... get the Koni/GC setup. That's his feedback on the Teins.

 

[Ludachris]

well after all the confusion of trying a new brand, i just ordered tein basic coilovers tonight. Im happy with tein on my other car so i just figured id stick with them.

Ughh... yet another one we couldn't get the point across to. Read my posts above (100 and 101). Teins might be good on your other car, but they lack an upper pillowball mount on the fronts for the 2g. I still think you should have gone with Konis.

Coilover choices for 2G DSMers on a budget should be:

1. Konis with your stock springs
2. Konis with lowering springs (Jtoby would probably know which ones are better)
3. Konis with Ground Control kit
4. Konis with Ground Control kit and Dennis Grant/RRE/custom upper front pillowball mounts
5. Spend more than $2k and get some real coilovers (Robispec, Mueller, Hotbits, etc)

The nice thing is, you can start out with 1 and upgrade to 2, 3, and 4 later if you wanted to. Don't waste your time trying to find out which of the sub $2k coilovers are the best, as they're all pretty much the same - not as good as the Koni/GC kit with D. Grant pillowball mounts.

 

[jtmcinder]

@jtmcinder What is your opinion on the teins? I know you recommend the Koni/GC setup, but what's your input on the tein ss setup?

Let me take a shot at what I think he'll say.... get the Koni/GC setup. That's his feedback on the Teins.

Actually, knowing him a little better than you and/or not feeling a need to be polite, I'd guess that jtmcinder would write a three-paragraph post babbling on about the excessive high-speed compression of Teins, yadda, yadda, yadda, but after you cut through all the "look at me, I'm so smart" crud, it would boil down to "get the Koni/GC or Koni/Koni setup, instead," so, on second (or third) thought, you're exactly right.

In his next paragraph he'd probably whine a little bit about your calling those upper plates "Dennis' design" since they are identical to the RRE plates that were available for years before and were on cinder before Dennis made his first plate, but that would just be an example jtmcinder's second-most annoying trait, so, again, your reply is better.

In fact, given that you have this covered and the only way to get Dennis to come back and sell these plates would be to ban jtmcinder, I'd vote for that right now.

 

[Ludachris]

Actually, knowing him a little better than you and/or not feeling a need to be polite, I'd guess that jtmcinder would write a three-paragraph post babbling on about the excessive high-speed compression of Teins, yadda, yadda, yadda, but after you cut through all the "look at me, I'm so smart" crud, it would boil down to "get the Koni/GC or Koni/Koni setup, instead," so, on second (or third) thought, you're exactly right.

In his next paragraph he'd probably whine a little bit about your calling those upper plates "Dennis' design" since they are identical to the RRE plates that were available for years before and were on cinder before Dennis made his first plate, but that would just be an example jtmcinder's second-most annoying trait, so, again, your reply is better.

In fact, given that you have this covered and the only way to get Dennis to come back and sell these plates would be to ban jtmcinder, I'd vote for that right now.

One of these days we'll have to grab a beer J.

But yeah, I figured I was close.

 

[oxisafox10]

So just to clear things up, a daily driven 98 GSX that will never see the track and looking for about a 2" drop should get

This: Koni North America - ITT -1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse Catalog Search

This: Ground Control - Coilover Conversion kit, 95-99 Mitsubishi Eclipse/Talon

And this: Road Race Engineering's Eclipse Suspension Upgrades

Correct?

 

[jtmcinder]

I, personally, wouldn't waste Konis on a 2G with a 2" drop. If you're going to destroy the handling by over-lowering the car, then just get whatever is cheapest.

 

[oxisafox10]

Well I'm not set on a 2" drop. A bit less than that would be fine, I just want it lower than it is now (I'm sitting on eibach springs, not sure how much it's currently dropped)

 

[91stocker]

Is there a write up on how to disassemble the stockers and assemble the koni kit? I think that could possibly scare some people off.

It would make a really nice sticky in the handling section. Links like above to the koni parts needed, the gc kit and maybe recommended spring rates, the upper pillowball mounts and how to assemble it all.

 

[coupe_nasty]

Not to disagree with your knowledge but i dont see why i need pillowball mounts when this car will hardly see a track and is just a weekend street car. For what im looking for, im sure that teins will be fine.

 

[bmoha7321]

Does RRE ever have those upper pillow ball mounts in stock?

 

[jtmcinder]

No. That's why there's been so much discussion lately of where else to get them.

 

[bmoha7321]

So permanent back order? Why don't they just take it off their website?

 

[Cornfed4G64]

Not to disagree with your knowledge but i dont see why i need pillowball mounts when this car will hardly see a track and is just a weekend street car. For what im looking for, im sure that teins will be fine.

Then why spend the money on coilovers? just get a set of yellows and some drop springs.

taken right from 2G tech on drag setup

Though suspension isn't necessarily a critical aspect for the weekend warrior, the serious racer will want to make some adjustments at the track for better traction. A good lowering spring and adjustable shock will be enough for most. Avoid lowering the car more than 1.5" than stock ride height for best results and longer shock life.

 

[jtmcinder]

So permanent back order? Why don't they just take it off their website?

When was the last time they updated any part of the website not related to Evos?

 

[jtmcinder]

Avoid lowering the car more than 1.5" than stock ride height for best results and longer shock life.

Yep. You do not want the lower front control arms angling down from knuckle to chassis (for roll center reasons) and excessive lowering puts the shock at an angle to the upper plate (which causes at least stiction, if not a bent shaft).

 

[kickasskid2087]

I contacted RRE last week about when they would have the upper bearing plates in stock. I received a response telling me, they would let me know when they know....

Been trying to find another upper plate from other vendors.

 

[Sebba]

I wish I had seen this earlier. I could have hooked you up with a cheaper, better performing set of custom valved BC's.

 

[Ludachris]

Not to disagree with your knowledge but i dont see why i need pillowball mounts when this car will hardly see a track and is just a weekend street car. For what im looking for, im sure that teins will be fine.

It's not about track vs. street. It's about correct suspension design vs. incorrect. Read up here:

the 2G DSM front suspension pivots several degrees back and forth just by turning the steering wheel lock-to-lock. The Audi-style double-lower-balljoint "virtual steering pivot" front suspension is designed to swing the shock around. Any resistance to the shock rod pivoting will either bend the shock rod or buckle the mount. If the spring is not kept coaxial to the shock rod and also allowed to pivot, the spring will bend and bow and the spring rate developed will vary unpredictably.

source: Autocross.dsm.org - Build Your Own Konis

The problem with all of the cheap coilover options available for the 2g is that they do not have a spherical bearing upper mount in the front - also called a pillowball mount (which is why they're so cheap). It's a bad design. But DSMers are cheap, and some don't really care about this inherent design flaw, and don't really care about good handling so they overlook it. I guess the rationale is, other people buy them and are okay with them, so I should be happy enough. And since the cheap DSMers keep buying these cheap coilovers with the design flaw, the manufacturers keep making them, and now all the sudden you have 5-10 different brands with the same design flaw and none with the correct design because there's no demand for the correct design because it's more expensive.

Dennis mentioned that Magnus can make the pillowball mounts on the page I linked to above. I'd contact Magnus to see if they're still an option.

 

[Ludachris]

I wish I had seen this earlier. I could have hooked you up with a cheaper, better performing set of custom valved BC's.

Great, do they have spherical upper mounts too? Or are they the same as all the other flawed designs?

 

[snowborder714]

Dennis mentioned that Magnus can make the pillowball mounts on the page I linked to above. I'd contact Magnus to see if they're still an option.

Or just print out the PDF drawing files and take them to your favorite machinist. Or you can contact Jay at Jay Racing as he's who I had make a bunch for me. Pretty much anyone can make them, but per Dennis' rules, no one but Magnus can sell them for a profit. I know Jtoby loves hearing that line

 

[bmoha7321]

I wish the website had a like button like Facebook. You posted some seriously funny things there JTMCinder.
I am going to go the Koni with GC springs route and hope to eventually track down a source for spherical upper mounts. I like that it is something you can do a step at a time and not have to lay out all the funds for all the parts at once.

 

[lilbiker909]

i got k sports and they ride nice. there ajustable 32 ways and hight is ajustable 3ins

 

[jtmcinder]

i got k sports and they ride nice.

Compared to what? The go-kart you were driving up until last week?

ps. happy birthday

 

[Sebba]

Great, do they have spherical upper mounts too? Or are they the same as all the other flawed designs?

You mean pillow ball? If so, yes.

They have many options too, like remote reservoirs, invert option, too. Custom valving of course.

 

[chasedardis]

quick question, koni yellows come with a 2.5 in spring perch right?