Which cams with my big turbo setup?

[ceedawg]

Confused on the cam issue a bit here. First off I wanna keep the stck 1g manifold and the car will be street driven. Hopefully I won't have to add cam gears because I'm not well versed on seting up cam timing. just wanna drop them in on the stck cam gears like my present HKS 264/272 cams are if that is even possible.


Goal: 550whp pump fuel or higher with E85

Here is my present setup being built:


Stock 1g intake mani

HKS 264/272 cams

Supertech Dual valve springs

Borg Warner 88-75 T4 TS .91 ar which is about equal to a 37r or 40r garrett.

ETS T4 Twinscroll mani twin tial 38mm wategates

ported head with 1mm oversize valves

Going with fic 2150cc injectors

Jay Racing fuel pump


Built 2.0L block everything upgraded.


Don't want to kill low rpm power,but I want good midrange and descent high rpm power. I just kinda figure my present cams were good enuff but I am told that cams like GCS or fp2's would be better. Remember if possible I would like to put something in if it's necessary that would upgrade my present cam setup. Hopefully without adding cam gears if possible.

So I am confused.

 

[paultheninja]

Depending on how much boost your running, hks 272 will be fine for your setup on e85. That should easily put you in the 500-600 range.

 

[empie1]

To really see maximum benefits from 272s, you should degree the cam.
On a side note...that siding on your house is crazy looking!

 

[ceedawg]

Depending on how much boost your running, hks 272 will be fine for your setup on e85. That should easily put you in the 500-600 range.

I believe I would have to run 28-30+psi to achieve this but I was kinda thinking that the 264/272 setup would have been fine.

I have heard that some of the other setups that I mentioned have great pull up top but sacrifice bottom end. I'm already a little nervous about that since I'm using a big turbo already. This is the reason why I spent the cash to go twin Scroll. Just don't wanna lose anything more in the lwr rpm ranges.

On a side note...that siding on your house is crazy looking!

No that's just the way the picture came out in this small size photo. That does look strange though but they are normal wooden shingles that all the houses have in Martha's Vinyard MA.

To really see maximum benefits from 272s, you should degree the cam

.

Even on the HKS setup? And are we talking 272/272 or my present 264/272 setup? I thought that would have been necessary with the other brands that I mentioned(GSC 2, FP2)272's

 

[paultheninja]

You could probably manage getting away with your current setup, but at that HP range you will really see alot more out of 272/272. You wont need adjustable can gears with HKS.

272/272 you should see very little if any low end power loss

 

[LiquidX]

With that turbo, you need at least the "272" profile and to be honest the Kelford "272" would suite it better as they are more like a "280"+ grind. You'll want to put in better springs and it would be a very good decision to get adjustable cam gears.

You can leave them zeroed out but when you get to a dyno, you'll be able to adjust them for the power you want. Also the larger the cams, the higher your power band moves and that turbo has an up top power band which suits the larger cam profles much better than a 272 would.

You'll also get a lot better results with swapping to a drag style intake manifold.

 

[empie1]

Even on the HKS setup? And are we talking 272/272 or my present 264/272 setup? I thought that would have been necessary with the other brands that I mentioned(GSC 2, FP2)272's

A straight 264 setup is pretty much drop in...but 272s definitely benefit from degreeing. You are putting this much time/money into it..I dont see why you wouldn't be as thorough as possible.

 

[ceedawg]

With that turbo, you need at least the "272" profile and to be honest the Kelford "272" would suite it better as they are more like a "280"+ grind. You'll want to put in better springs and it would be a very good decision to get adjustable cam gears.

You can leave them zeroed out but when you get to a dyno, you'll be able to adjust them for the power you want. Also the larger the cams, the higher your power band moves and that turbo has an up top power band which suits the larger cam profles much better than a 272 would.
You'll also get a lot better results with swapping to a drag style intake manifold.

I'm kinda willing to make some sacrifice due to knowing this. If the Kelford 272's can help me out with my present setup I'll do it. I was chking out this thread on EVOM. Great info.

Ams Evo Cam Test - evolutionm.net

Seems like the kelford 272's were the ticket

The dual valve springs I have(Supertech's) are brand new so I hope I don't need to chg these again. I guess I will consider the cam gears. I really have no idea which ones though.

I would hate to go with the mani chg. Wanna see how much I could get away with using the stck mani vs a drag mani.

A straight 264 setup is pretty much drop in...but 272s definitely benefit from degreeing. You are putting this much time/money into it..I dont see why you wouldn't be as thorough as possible.

Well I guess I can open my options and consider it. I like the cam testing done with this EVO VIII with the kelfords. It just does not mention whether cam gears were used or not. I will pm the guy. Correction,in reading the first paragraph correctly he is using cam gears.

Daily street driver is the goal with descent topend in reserve. Would like to consider one day trying the car out at Pocono raceway and sometimes on a rented runway for topend runs.

 

[LiquidX]

I'm kinda willing to make some sacrifice due to knowing this. If the Kelford 272's can help me out with my present setup I'll do it. I was chking out this thread on EVOM. Great info.

Ams Evo Cam Test - evolutionm.net

Seems like the kelford 272's were the ticket

The dual valve springs I have(Supertech's) are brand new so I hope I don't need to chg these again. I guess I will consider the cam gears. I really have no idea which ones though.

I would hate to go with the mani chg. Wanna see how much I could get away with using the stck mani vs a drag mani.



Well I guess I can open my options and consider it. I like the cam testing done with this EVO VIII with the kelfords. It just does not mention whether cam gears were used or not. I will pm the guy.

Daily street driver is the goal with descent topend in reserve. Would like to consider one day trying the car out at Pocono raceway and sometimes on a rented runway for topend runs.

You can use the stock manifold, but you will get a healthy gain when switching to the appropriate manifold. I wouldn't be surprised if you picked up at least 30hp from going from the stock manifold to the drag manifold.

What are you planning on setting your rev limiter to as that will make the ultimate decision weather the duals will work with the Kelfords and the set limiter.

Again, you will get the most out of the cams by actually adjusting them to fit the motor. Not saying you need to degree them to 0 TDC but getting on a dyno and adjusting on there will make a big difference for your power band, top end/low end power, spool up, etc.

 

[ceedawg]

You can use the stock manifold, but you will get a healthy gain when switching to the appropriate manifold. I wouldn't be surprised if you picked up at least 30hp from going from the stock manifold to the drag manifold.

What are you planning on setting your rev limiter to as that will make the ultimate decision weather the duals will work with the Kelfords and the set limiter.

Again, you will get the most out of the cams by actually adjusting them to fit the motor. Not saying you need to degree them to 0 TDC but getting on a dyno and adjusting on there will make a big difference for your power band, top end/low end power, spool up, etc.

Not sure as I'll only know where to set the rev limiter once the car goes on the dyno for tuning. That will have to be decided based on the whole graph and where the car feels happy.

I figured the Supertech's were good till 9k. Do the kelfords require beehives or some other brand that you might consider an upgrade?

Man this Evom thread is 49 pgs long. jeez.

 

[viperlp01]

Kelford makes there own beehives that are suited for the bigger lift cams they make. They are around 420 for the springs. The kelford 272 would be a great cam. I decided on the Kelford 272 with my T/S T4set up for the ease of driving it on the street. The 280/276 Kelford sounds pretty nasty and the cam card shows it.

 

[paultheninja]

How street-able are the kelford 272s?

 

[ceedawg]

What are you planning on setting your rev limiter to as that will make the ultimate decision weather the duals will work with the Kelfords and the set limiter.

Kelford makes there own beehives that are suited for the bigger lift cams they make. They are around 420 for the springs

Spoke to my buddy today his car runs single digits at over 150mph that revs to 11,500 rpms witht the same Supertech springs I have. He has FP2's and has not had a prob with the Supertech's so I guess I am good there. Now I only have the cams to think about again.

He said the Crower springs he originally had were garbage after 7k rpm's so he switched to the Supertech's.

He has track videos all over youtube of his 2g running single digits.

 

[LiquidX]

He has track videos all over youtube of his 2g running single digits.

Care to post some links?

 

[BrokenTsi]

I have some real world dyno numbers that may help you out a bit.

I made 500hp on the mustang dyno with my s366 at 22psi on 93 octane. I was using HKS 272's at the time.

I recently purchased a set of Kelford 272's and some beehive springs to replace my Manley singles to squeeze a bit more out of the setup.

 

[ceedawg]

I have some real world dyno numbers that may help you out a bit.

I made 500hp on the mustang dyno with my s366 at 22psi on 93 octane. I was using HKS 272's at the time.
I recently purchased a set of Kelford 272's .

Wow 93 oct ,229si ,500hp with HKS 272's. Nice. Is that also whp or at the crank?

Care to post some links?

YouTube - Last Pass 2010

I will find the others. Car was converted to automatic as well.

 

[BrokenTsi]

That was to the wheels on a mustang dyno. ^^^

I would have ran more boost to get better numbers buy my alternator went bad on the dyno.

 

[ceedawg]

That was to the wheels on a mustang dyno. ^^^

I would have ran more boost to get better numbers buy my alternator went bad on the dyno.

Kool, so I should make 500whp at 20+ lbs boost as well with my setup. I love it. The 366 is a beast of a turbo for sure.

Off topic :By the way why r you selling your big intake setup?

Keep me posted on the kelfords and their drivabilty. i'm think I'm gonna stay with the stock intake mani. The kelfords do look promising though.

Keep us posted on the Kelfords!

 

[BrokenTsi]

Kool, so I should make 500whp at 20+ lbs boost as well with my setup. I love it. The 366 is a beast of a turbo for sure.

Off topic :By the way why r you selling your big intake setup?

Keep me posted on the kelfords and their drivabilty. i'm think I'm gonna stay with the stock intake mani. The kelfords do look promising though.

I put a deposit on the new cast intake manifold from Magnus. After talking to them on the phone about it, and seeing the dyno results from John Wigger, I was sold on it. The Jmfab intake has been great, but I think it I can get more out of the car with the Magnus. It will be available to the public in 4-6 weeks.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Did you say ETS made you a divided T4 exhaust manifold with twin gates?
Care to post up some pics, and PM me a price please.

 

[ceedawg]

Did you say ETS made you a divided T4 exhaust manifold with twin gates?
Care to post up some pics, and PM me a price please.

I'm still waiting for them to send me pics of the completed job. As soon as I get them I will certainly post, yes it will have twin gates. i have a link in the turbo sect of some pics.

 

[DWR-DSM]

I put a deposit on the new cast intake manifold from Magnus. After talking to them on the phone about it, and seeing the dyno results from John Wigger, I was sold on it. The Jmfab intake has been great, but I think it I can get more out of the car with the Magnus. It will be available to the public in 4-6 weeks.

What JMF intake are you using now? You think by swapping JMF for Magnus intake you gonna see a difference?

I have some real world dyno numbers that may help you out a bit.

I made 500hp on the mustang dyno with my s366 at 22psi on 93 octane. I was using HKS 272's at the time.

I recently purchased a set of Kelford 272's and some beehive springs to replace my Manley singles to squeeze a bit more out of the setup.

Some good numbers. I was able to lay down 493awhp through the auto with the s372 with race cover at 21psi and 93 pump. On those BC 272
.

 

[efrainz28]

What JMF intake are you using now? You think by swapping JMF for Magnus intake you gonna see a difference?
.

Cast version like the EVO
Magnus Motorsports » Blog Archive » Sneak Peak at the Magnus V3 Cast Intake manifold for 1G DSM

 

[DWR-DSM]

Cast version like the EVO
Magnus Motorsports » Blog Archive » Sneak Peak at the Magnus V3 Cast Intake manifold for 1G DSM

I would like to see some dyno results from the JMF Drag vs Magnus new intake.

 

[BrokenTsi]

What JMF intake are you using now? You think by swapping JMF for Magnus intake you gonna see a difference?



Some good numbers. I was able to lay down 493awhp through the auto with the s372 with race cover at 21psi and 93 pump. On those BC 272
.

Yeah, I really think I will. Marco said his race car spooled faster and made more power on this exact same manifold. John Wigger also reported better spool up and more power over his Magnus intake manifold as well.

I think the cast design will flow air better than a box welded onto velocity stacks that are full of sharp angles. Im willing to give it a try.