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Where did I go wrong in my build?

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GSXftw

10+ Year Contributor
381
78
Dec 16, 2009
Medford, Oregon
Hi guys, if this is in the wrong section sorry. Its a very sad day today, car has been down all year long, big build with quality parts, quality work, and after a mere 70 miles of low boost break in driving shes starting to knock, and theres debris in the oil filter. Its for sure bottom end, its load dependent, knocks louder under throttle. I just wanted to go through my parts list and see if anyone wouldve done anything different or if theres any red flags to anyone? This is my first major 4G63 build (not at all my first engine tho) Craziest thing is the block/crank is out of the car Ive had for 10 years, driven daily, no issues, I just freshened everything up, so its not like Ive got a basket case.

Obviously I wont know for sure what went wrong until Im back in the engine but if theres anything you guys would change I'd appreciate it, thanks. Mainly should I of used an HLA regulator?
6 Bolt block, ARP mains, line honed, .020 bored, BSE, crank scraper, stock crank, eagle H beam, wiseco hd 1400, rings .020/.022 gap, ACL tri metals, all balanced
2G head, deburred, teardrop mod, standard ARPs, all stud holes drilled to 13mm, and oil feed hole drilled to 9/16
90 FFOFH, 3G lifters, turbo is fed from the head, no restrictor.
Ive ran a lot of this previously for years without an issue, what I changed was a built 2G head, pistons/rods. Same turbo, same OFH, same oil pump, I hadnt had a failure before and everything checked out good. The most my engine saw was 7k, twice, the last night before it started knocking. Was on low boost, tuning it out, I was being smart and easy on it. It was primed beforehand.

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What oil did you use for the break in? Although I really doubt that the choice of oil would have blown your motor but it could be helpful to know. Pull the pan and inspect maybe one of the bearings got installed backwards.
Sorry it happened there is nothing worse than being let down after spending time and money on your baby.
 
Did you blueprint the motor when it was assembled. Was the eagle rods checked for roundness as they are not known for quality control. Crank checked/polished? no taper? What were your clearances and oil pressure.

Either way the motor is going to have to be torn down for further inspection.
 
What oil did you use for the break in? Although I really doubt that the choice of oil would have blown your motor but it could be helpful to know. Pull the pan and inspect maybe one of the bearings got installed backwards.
Sorry it happened there is nothing worse than being let down after spending time and money on your baby.
I'll have to second that, I'm in no means an engine expert, but I know a buddy that completed his entire build, put it in and drove it, only to have spun a bearing because one of the bearings were put in backwards and blocked the oil port.
 
I'll have to second that, I'm in no means an engine expert, but I know a buddy that completed his entire build, put it in and drove it, only to have spun a bearing because one of the bearings were put in backwards and blocked the oil port.
Oh yes, I work in a shop and am rebuilding a 7 bolt for that exact reason. Not the case here tho.
All the clearances were plastigauged at .0015 (mains, rods)
The oil was your regular 15-30w dino oil. Crank was polished, rods I do believe were checked for round but let me make sure, I assembled but I left some stuff to the machine shop
 
Oh yes, I work in a shop and am rebuilding a 7 bolt for that exact reason. Not the case here tho.
All the clearances were plastigauged at .0015 (mains, rods)
The oil was your regular 15-30w dino oil. Crank was polished, rods I do believe were checked for round but let me make sure, I assembled but I left some stuff to the machine shop
Ah, your guess is as good as mine. My knowledge doesn't spread very far when it comes to internals yet. Hopefully it's something that's not to devastating (as if an engine knocking isn't devastating enough).
 
I know you said you were taking it easy on the motor and the clearances you used, while within the factory specs, is a bit too tight imo for a built motor, but then again that is highly dependent upon oil weight and load factor.

Do you have access to micrometers and bore gauges? I personally never trust plastigauge and always double check my machinists work.
 
Did you re use a turbo that was in a blown motor previously or even the oil filter housing? When I had JAM build my motor I inquired about re using my existing ofh and tony recommend to get everything clean thoroughly or brand new. You can't risk anything old messing up a new build. Good luck
 
Two red flags for me are that you did not use break in oil and no mention of assembly lube.

Dedicated break in oil is not a requirement and not 100% completely necessary. Assembly lube is also not 100% necessary. A lot of old school v8 guys only use straight 30 weight or gear oil on assembly.

However, just because he didn't state it doesn't mean he didn't use any assembly lube. As long as the oil pump was primed before starting its not as serious as people make it seem.
 
lashope05 you are right on everything you said, but it does help. By no means did I mean that it went wrong because of it, and because he did not mention it doesn't mean he did not use it.
Also these cars are far from v8 cars as far as tolerances and materials used so assembly lube and break in oil does help significantly.
 
lashope05 you are right on everything you said, but it does help. By no means did I mean that it went wrong because of it, and because he did not mention it doesn't mean he did not use it.
Also these cars are far from v8 cars as far as tolerances and materials used so assembly lube and break in oil does help significantly.

Which materials are on these engines are far from an old v8? It is way more similar than you think. The reason for different clearances is because of size of the journals. Bigger journal, bigger clearance. There is nothing different about these engines that would make them require assembly lube or break in oil any more than any other engine. I have personally not one single time used a specific break in oil. I have built tons of engines not had any fail. It is FAR more important to change the oil in proper intervals than to use a break in oil or special assemble lube.
 
Did you re use a turbo that was in a blown motor previously or even the oil filter housing? When I had JAM build my motor I inquired about re using my existing ofh and tony recommend to get everything clean thoroughly or brand new. You can't risk anything old messing up a new build. Good luck

Absolutely could cause a catastrophic failure in no time flat. If the turbo had any material in it, it'll spit it right back into the system. You are spot on

OP: Very sorry to hear this. I had 300 miles on mine when the same rod started knocking(long story, bad machinist). I feel ya bro.
 
All of the above (and me) is just guess work. Strip it down and fully inspect everything. Sounds like a rod bearing though. What was your oil pressure like during the time it did run.
I don't see any issue with your general parts list, you may have to accept that "your" work was the issue. However, make sure your crank is fully checked out, they are old and tired.

Clean, clean and clean again. Check your torque wrench and torque specs. Blue print everything as you go.
Side note... I have seen Eagle rod bolts that didn't meet spec's right out of the box.
Good luck with the rebuild.
 
Yes check and check and make sure everything is clean you may have to buy new parts if your unsure if its not clean, don't ask me how I know, lets say ive seen enough lately.
 
I work at a shop, I do this for a living LOL, So yes I cleaned everything thoroughly, used assembly lube, ect. The oil filter cut open is the first one, 50 miles on it, nothing had seen a previous failure, its definitely new metal, I ran this same oil system prev for years, turbo for months, just went to a 2G head, higher comp built bottom end, ect. Oil pressure was awesome, slightly higher than it was previously with high miles so exactly where you'd expect it to be. Im about to drop the oil pan and start inspecting now so Ill know more soon. Thanks ya'll.
 
Did you remove the crank balls in the crank and clean out all the gunk?
That is literaly the only thing I didnt do no...didnt even think about it till now. f***. I sprayed and cleaned all the galleys, oil squirters were removed, cleaned, ect. Well the good news is the crank isnt hurt at all. It isnt a specific bearing but all of them as a whole were starving
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The feed holes would have a stripe in the middle if it was contaminated oil or chunks from another source and being pumped thru...this just literally looks like it was getting half its supply of oil. On the mains I know the lowers have holes, going to no where, the tops are exactly the same, and they line up with the feed holes. Did I get sent a wrong set of bearings? Ive seen the 7 bolts have holes in the top and solid on the bottom but all the 6 bolt mains Ive seen so far kind of look like this...
 
Looks kind of like the bores were out of round. You didn't mix up and rod caps or main caps by chance? Also there is not enough bearing damage there to really cause knocking at this point.
 
Looks kind of like the bores were out of round. You didn't mix up and rod caps or main caps by chance? Also there is not enough bearing damage there to really cause knocking at this point.
I agree, the journals look tapered, but none of the pics show a bearing that was knocking.

Did you fit the piston pins? Very rarely can you just toss a set of pistons and rods together and have the proper clearance with the piston pins. Also, pull the cam caps and check for scoring in the cam journals.
 
There are way more bad machine shops out there than good ones. Most of the bearing issues I have seen have been due to poor machine work, I am very grateful for my top notch machinist, never lost a bearing on any motors we have built lost count a long time ago, lsx, 4g, b series, K series, SBC, BBC, 3s, 2jz, you name it they have machined it for us.
 
There are way more bad machine shops out there than good ones. Most of the bearing issues I have seen have been due to poor machine work, I am very grateful for my top notch machinist, never lost a bearing on any motors we have built lost count a long time ago, lsx, 4g, b series, K series, SBC, BBC, 3s, 2jz, you name it they have machined it for us.

Care to share your glory hole? Spread the awesomeness what's the shops name, i'm sure they will appreciate
your word of mouth!
 
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