Wheelie Bars

[kkiel02]

Anyone know a good link for wheelie bars. I have a GST so I need one for traction, can you take these off pretty easy so you can drive around the city after racing? Thanks for all help, I need it.

 

[90GSX]

Originally posted by Bohrn
But lo-and-behold, the fat little pricks fly just fine

Bwahahahahahah :laugh:

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by rubbersidedown
yes it is. go ask a physics professor. And you're right, 1.2 60ft's would be impossible on 3inch wide tires because due to the lack of surface area the force isn't spread out and the tires would be torn apart unless they were made of an extremely hard compound and then of course they wouldn't grab at all. I'm sorry but you're wrong. Go ask any physics professor.

--edit--
and yes i realize now i repeated myself w/ the physics professor thing.

Ok, so you know that surface area matters, why bring up something that dosen't apply to racers in the real world, go read book, Ill stick to 11 second passes.

A given material can handle a certain amount of before power overcoming its traction, increasing its weight increases this point. BUT not in a direct ratio. Its a thing of diminishing return. Double the wight and get 80% more traction, double it again and get 60% more....get wider tires, diffuse that weight, get more traction.

Additionally a street is not a perfect surface and you increase the likelikhood off finding good traction

Additionally weight transfer want to put its weight on a certain point and wider tires make that point available.

Friction = science
Traction = real world

Guess what matters for drag racing?

FWD boys, go WIDE, use common sense

Sean

 

[Bohrn]

glad you liked it Erik

 

[rubbersidedown]

you people just aren't listening. Surface area has to do more w/ the wear and durability of the tire/compound and weight plays a factor too. But all i'm saying is that surface area has NO DIRECT RELATION to traction. We did a study on it in class. You can prove it by using a spring scale to pull an object across a surface. From there you work the necessary calculations. You can even just flat out compare the spring scale read outs of different objects to eachother. Someone in another post said something about adding weight gives you more traction.. that is true because weight is part of the equation but surface area is not. You do not need to know the surface area to figure out how much traction. Believe me. ask someone who ACTUALLY knows.

 

[black93TSi]

what does dragging something with a spring scale have to do with the the different amounts of traction provided by a variety of different tire widths during the launch when racing? the tires are never gonna lose traction from being overpowered when the car is being towed by something.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by rubbersidedown
you people just aren't listening. Surface area has to do more w/ the wear and durability of the tire/compound and weight plays a factor too. But all i'm saying is that surface area has NO DIRECT RELATION to traction. We did a study on it in class. You can prove it by using a spring scale to pull an object across a surface. From there you work the necessary calculations. You can even just flat out compare the spring scale read outs of different objects to eachother. Someone in another post said something about adding weight gives you more traction.. that is true because weight is part of the equation but surface area is not. You do not need to know the surface area to figure out how much traction. Believe me. ask someone who ACTUALLY knows.

I know, I know all of this...and your still a moron for bringing it up. I DOES not apply to cars during drag races. Period. End of story. I gave you the reasons why what you learned from books can stay in books. The fact that surface area does not affect friction has nothing to do with The traction of wider tires in drag racing. Its just something pointless that you think makes you sound intelligent.

The ACTUAL intelligent people, and yes, I include myself, acept that surface area does not directly affect friction. Then they ignore this, bolt on huge slicks and have neck snapping launches. Width matters in traction. Same compound, same sidewall, wider tires have more traction, period.
You want to prove me worng mathematically, make sure you factor in the relative molecular contact bewteen a tire and the road. Make sure you factor in the suspension geometery of the given car and how weight transfer wants to put its weight on varying points. Remeber that static and dynamic forces are not the same thing.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by black93TSi
what does dragging something with a spring scale have to do with the the different amounts of traction provided by a variety of different tire widths during the launch when racing? the tires are never gonna lose traction from being overpowered when the car is being towed by something.

Thank you! Something good, I did not point out. The worst part of this is that the idiot is trying to convince his of his intelligence while being unable to apply common sense to the real world.

 

[rubbersidedown]

Its the simplist way for you to do it. You guys wanted a real example and its fairly easy to do. I told you i just borught it up because people think that just because a tire is wide means you get great traction when in fact that is not the case. I stated that when i first brought it up. The quality and compound the tire is made from is the biggest factor. In no way have i put anyone down. I just thought that general everyday person should know. I don't know why you've got to start callin me names.. maybe it makes you feel smart or makes you feel better then me. I was just trying to clear up a misconception and you people gotta start callin me names like it means something. I really don't understand why anyone is gettin so worked up over any of this. If you can prove me wrong in any way besides saying "well this guy got this time with this huge of tires" then please do. Other than that it means nothing. Its a general statement.

 

[rubbersidedown]

Originally posted by black93TSi
what does dragging something with a spring scale have to do with the the different amounts of traction provided by a variety of different tire widths during the launch when racing? the tires are never gonna lose traction from being overpowered when the car is being towed by something.

it has to do w/ calculating friction and the friction coeffeicient, among other things. And i'm sorry but w/out friction there is no traction.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Ok, I have Kumho ecsta Supras On my 1990 Laser FWD....the front are 205/55/16 and the rears are 225/50/16. The have identical tread wear and have identical traction ratings. They have identical rolling diameter. I cut consistently better 60 Ft's on my 225's then I can on the 205's now that there rotated. I can spin into 3rd more now then i could previously. Thats a real world example. Its just one. Everytime I go to the track I see 100 more. Do you think Mickey Thompson sells 14 inch wide slicks because they cant use the same compound on a narrower tire? They can and do but the narrow tire unfortunately forces more wight over a smaller surface area causing the tires to reach its slipping point. AIts a dynamic force.

Static friction, I.E. towing the car....is a different story.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by rubbersidedown


it has to do w/ calculating friction and the friction coeffeicient, among other things. And i'm sorry but w/out friction there is no traction.

That dosen't make traction and friction the same thing, because they are not. Without X there is no Y means nothing

Traction in friction dependent. Friction is not surface area dependent. Still meaningless.

Traction is not JUST friction. Wider tires have more traction, period.

 

[rubbersidedown]

Once again all i'm trying to say is that wider does not necessarily mean you will get better traction. It is possible to have better traction w/ a skinnier tire because of the compound its made from. You people are thinking "ideally" as if each tire for its size was made out of the best compound it can possibly be made from or you take it to the extreme and compare a donut tire to a hoosier drag tire.

Originally posted by rubbersidedown
Just a side note... wider tires does not necessarily mean better traction. In fact, how wide a tire is does not has no direct relation to the amount of traction you get. I just wanted to point that out because it tends to be a common misconception. sorry to get off track.

That was my first post. I am wrong about mentioning that there is no direct relation between the width of a tire and the amount of traction you get. But surface area certainly isn't the biggest factor because if the tire is made of a shitty compound then it just isn't gonna do you much good at all. But the first statement and the main idea of my whole post was that having a wider tire does not necessarily mean you will have more traction. And i'm sure when you people were telling the person who started this thread to get wider tires i'm sure you weren't tellin him to go out and get huge drag slicks. So as i said before, wider does not necessarily mean better.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

If you have two tires w/ identical tread and made from identical compounds but one is wider than the other... then they will still both have the same traction.

So in conclusion, a wider tire can be made out of a softer compound while having a decently long tread life. Other than that the width of a tire has NO direct relation to traction.

But all i'm saying is that surface area has NO DIRECT RELATION to traction.

I told you i just borught it up because people think that just because a tire is wide means you get great traction when in fact that is not the case.

If you have two tires w/ identical tread and made from identical compounds but one is wider than the other... then they will still both have the same traction.

2 Tires, same coumpound, wider will always have more traction. Your just wrong, you can't hide in formula's or in physics class'es and your trying to teach some of the less experianced racers things that will only hurt them. You think your so intelligent, Ill let you see if you can figure out the reasons for yourself.

#@%#@%#@%#@%ing DUH! Of course a thinner tire with a better compound can grip better! That was NOT your orignal point and you know it. Thats a given, you tried to bring in physics to prove what is possibly the most idiotic thing I have read.

 

[rubbersidedown]

no it was my original point. But someone decided to start an arguement and i argued myself into a whole. I lost sight of what i was trying to say and said a lot of wrong things but some was still right. Look at my original post. the statement "wider tires does not necessariliy mean better traction" is true. Then someone started argueing it and i went way off base. So why are you trying to drag this out?

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by rubbersidedown
no it was my original point. But someone decided to start an arguement and i argued myself into a whole. I lost sight of what i was trying to say and said a lot of wrong things but some was still right. Look at my original post. the statement "wider tires does not necessariliy mean better traction" is true. Then someone started argueing it and i went way off base. So why are you trying to drag this out?

Because I don't like misinformation

Here, original post :

If you have two tires w/ identical tread and made from identical compounds but one is wider than the other... then they will still both have the same traction.

Thats flat out, no questions out wrong, rediculous to think its true. Shows a complete and utter lack of common sense, a lack of an ability to apply the real world to the class room and is misleading.

In fact, the only thing you've said true is that surface area dosen't affect friction, but everything you have based off of this fact is wrong. Admit your worng and get on with your life.

Maybe you can prove red is green and get yourself killed at the next stop light!

 

[Bohrn]

don't worry about bumble bees stinging you either, as long as you wear big boots because they can't fly

Does the fact that tires are rotating, and not sliding have anything to do with it??

and back to the original point, I was thinking about wheelie bars on the fwd. Well as long as he gets some significant wheel spin, maybe the wheelie bars will help him. If they can keep the front down by not allowing the rear to drop, well, maybe it wont spin. On a huge engine, maybe it will still spin, but on a 250hp engine, maybe he will cut better 60' times.

Just adjust em so that the rear of the car will not sag at all, and hope the track is as flat as a pool table.

 

[rubbersidedown]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer


Because I don't like misinformation

Here, original post :

If you have two tires w/ identical tread and made from identical compounds but one is wider than the other... then they will still both have the same traction.

I don't like people you can't count... Look at the first page, post #9. That is the first post i made in this thread. I won't deny that the post you're referencing to was wrong. I told you i lost sight of what i was talking about and argued myself into a hole. I'm right in terms of friction and i confused traction w/ friction i admitted it. Now you're just wasting posts by attempting to drag this out further than it has to go.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

That was the first posat where you tried to explain yourself.

 

[rubbersidedown]

and my reasoning was wrong.

 

[90GSX]

Originally posted by Bohrn
glad you liked it Erik

It's Eri'c'

 

[Bohrn]

D'oh!!!

sorry

Made ya laff in the other thread too hehe

 

[cucumber]

This thread is still going on?

And I'm still replying. :laugh:

 

[rubbersidedown]

post whore? Just kidding