What Intercooler are you 50 trim guys using?

[STECARS]

That Yonaka IC might not have the best core, but sheet... the end tank is VERY well thought out. It is nicely off set so that all the air doesn't just flow straight across and pressurize the rest. I am talking about the small and medium sized cores.. the large is crap. With that size, using the same core and end tanks, the inlet should be on the bottom and the outlet on the top (or vice-versa).

tHERE WAS A POST A WHILE BACK ABOUT ENDTANK DESIGNS and from what it showed the box designs are the worst . I also have the yonaka and everyone can say what they want but, the endtanks are very well planned and the fact that at points they are no bigger than 2" in width even better. It gets better suction through the core . The box tanks only get suction wre the pipe connects. Hard to explain but I'll try to find the link with the diagrams.

 

[Omega]

I stand by my shitty design comment. Just think how much better the system would be if your "10 sec" intercooler setup would be. I bet with the same IC core and a thought out end tank design (with NO other changes) the car would be faster. Use a little common sense. Would you rather run in a nice curved bend or run into a brick wall, then turn and run in the other direction?

Check this out:

Here are some basic flow diagrams for you.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Given a choice of left or right, what would you choose?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

What I find interesting is that companies with good cores put nasty end tanks on, while cheap cores get good end tanks.

Road race have that griffin cored IC. Oppose the end tanks (like for the VR4) and put a good core in there and that IC would kick ass.

 

[Omega]

One more example.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Ben K]

Show me proof, not theories. Until then, my "worst" design works just fine on 10 second cars and 600whp. I'm not trying to start an argument, just show some proof with your claims.

 

[kmartind]

Good point. Most of us care more about real-world performance and less about theory. There will always be trade-offs with any product as fabrication or manufacturing methods have limitations and there are also (obvisouly) concerns about build time, cost, fitment, etc.

That having been said, I assume most everyone selling custom intercooler kits has flow tested them, etc and seen good results both in testing and in real-world performance. For anyone who is really interested in the theory, here's a decent reference with a lot of related technical info:
http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm
(and this also appears to be where Omega grabbed the flow diagrams but without actually citing the reference).

 

[Agent Ezzard]

I'm no intercooler engineer or subject matter expert but I would say Spearco puts some time and effort into developing their cores. I would say the core makes the intercooler not the endtanks. Granted if the inlets/outlets are undersized or you have extra small endtank diameter then yes you hinder the ability of the core to do its job which is primarily cool the charge air. Spearco bar and plate cores are know for their ability to cool and their durability. I feel good about my $1000+ purchase not because it doesn't allow me to keep my foglights, bumper support, or ease of installation. It is because it does what it is supposed to probably better than its closest non-Spearco competitor. Also unlike a turbo purchase, it'll be the last IC I would have to purchase.

I'm not into debating theory right now. I'm just giving my opinion on why I purchased the kit I did instead of going the DIY route. And yes, I am a DIY'er.

 

[logic]

A local fellow is making these:

http://a.raczynski.home.comcast.net/2g_intercooler_kit.htm

He has an interesting discussion in the PDF linked to from that page. His design appears to follow the idea behind the last example that Omega posted. It's a shame he didn't do a similar test with higher air velocities; the dramatic velocity loss is something to think about, but I suspect it would be much less pronounced at higher velocities.

 

[kmartind]

A bit of ameteur science going on there, somewhat reminicent of a high school science fair project, but some of the information is fairly well supported. That having been said, I too think his conclusion was probably incorrect. I think the difference is actually less pronounced at positive boost pressures rather than more pronounced (which would explain why fabricated end tanks perform well in real-world situations).

 

[sleeper142]

A bit of ameteur science going on there, somewhat reminicent of a high school science fair project, but some of the information is fairly well supported. That having been said, I too think his conclusion was probably incorrect. I think the difference is actually less pronounced at positive boost pressures rather than more pronounced (which would explain why fabricated end tanks perform well in real-world situations).

I appreciate the honest evaluation. In all honesty I feel that the point I tried to get across with my high school quality testing, is that one should take the results and interpret them for them selves.

I certainly do not have the equipment to measure this sort of thing at positive boost pressures (i.e. a flow bench.) So any comments or suggestions you have to make are greatly appreciated.

On a seperate note, I will say the nice thing about the end tanks I have designed, is that they are cast. I have never had to worry about blowing up welds or anything goofy like that. This all being said, I will say that AGP makes a nice kit (spearco core ) at a great price, and are certainly a good and reliable vendor.

Albert Raczynski

 

[kmartind]

Don't get me wrong, I've seen some very impressive "science fair projects" over the years with almost perfect results. The main difference tends to be a big budget and access to high-tech testing equipment and software tools (for example a good flow bench, and computational fluid dynamics software like FLUENT among other things). This allows a full suite of testing and similation to positively verify results.
Even if one conclusion may have been incorrect (we don't really have proof either way but similar tests seem to indicate less difference as flow increases), out of boost performance is still important on the street and less static pressure drop could potentially result in quicker spool, better gas mileage, and still have slightly better top-end flow without any real disadvantages. I'd love to see a real-world comparison using the same core on the same vehicle with various end-tank designs to see just how much difference it makes (on and off boost). With the amount of research and testing that goes into intake manifolds I agree that endtank designs are probably neglected a bit at times, and your cast endtanks do look really nice and probably perform very well too.