vote : help me pick my suspension

[PaulPDX]

I don't know.... I read what he said as "don't get KYBs". Maybe I was reading a different post. Heh.

 

[tsiawdspeed]

The AGX fronts are 1" LONGER than stock

The new style AGX's are no longer 1" longer than the stock front 2g shock. They changed their design. If anyone here does want to get the AGX for the 2g after the bashing they recieved, make sure to get the new part #, which is 741042.

I have the AGX's with the prokits on my car and I love the setup. It handles great and is not bouncy. I have the fronts set at 3 and the rears at 2. Thats just my $.02

 

[jtmcinder]

I have the AGX's with the prokits on my car and I love the setup. It handles great and is not bouncy. I have the fronts set at 3 and the rears at 2. Thats just my $.02

Let's assume that you know how to set shocks. What does it tell you about ProKits that you have the car set to 3 and 2? What is says to me is that the rear rates on ProKits are too low. What's the key difference between ProKits and H&R Sports? Not the drop. Not the front rates. The rear rates. H&Rs are much stiffer in the rear. This would really help reduce the built-in understeer of our cars (as well as the squat, for you drag-racers).

- Jtoby

 

[tsiawdspeed]

Doesn't it also make sense that maybe you have less weight in the rear so you don't need to have as much damping as you do in the front? I am not saying the prokits are the best springs out there. I got them because I got a REALLY good deal on them and they lower the least amount out of all the springs out there, which is what I wanted.

 

[my95tsi]

your very true, damn jtoby i didn't know you knew so much.... i almost bought the prokit's but after talking to H&R i realized why their springs are superior. I bought the sport springs then wondered why the back isn't as low as the front. It's not a huge difference but it gives a very aggressive stance. I called H&R and they told me the exact same thing jtoby said. Then i felt alot better about my purchase. Even before i talked to H&R i felt a huge difference i handling, braking, and launching. First off like i said before i have almost no wheel hop. Second i don't squat the back end while dropping it into a lower gear or launching. Third my car no longer nose dives on hard braking, it keeps a level body and stops much quicker. It's kinda weird b/c my tires will break loose before the suspension moves. I'll almost slam the brakes and the car will just slide or skip with the car barely moving from front to back. I have to get better brakes and tires but b/c of my shitty tires my car likes to skip alot when it's stopping hard b/c of the stiff suspension.

Let's assume that you know how to set shocks. What does it tell you about ProKits that you have the car set to 3 and 2? What is says to me is that the rear rates on ProKits are too low. What's the key difference between ProKits and H&R Sports? Not the drop. Not the front rates. The rear rates. H&Rs are much stiffer in the rear. This would really help reduce the built-in understeer of our cars (as well as the squat, for you drag-racers).

- Jtoby

 

[blcknspo0ln]

hate to ruin this intellegent conversation but what shocks do you have my95tsi?

 

[PaulPDX]

Right springs... wrong shocks. According to his profile... KYB GR-2, which is really just a stock replacement.

 

[my95tsi]

Yeah i have the gr-2's but they work just fine for my setup. They'll never blow in the rear b/c it's barely lowered that far from stock. The fronts seems fine, I have no real problems with them. If people can put gr-2's on sportlines with no problems then i can put them on my sport springs. I'll probably get the koni yellows sooner or later.

 

[jtmcinder]

There are actually a bunch of reasons why you want the rear of the car higher than the front (which is something that I call "stink-bug" mode on the autoXing list). But, given that things like too much rear camber are easily dealt with using shims, the key one is this: it keeps the rear roll center up. Having the rear roll center too low hurts performance because it reduces instantaneous weight transfer and can overwhelm the rear suspension. If you are really good at pre-turning and getting the weight shifted early, this might not be a big deal. But if you not yet fully in tune with your car and/or need to do lots of transitions (read: you autoX and slalom a lot), then keeping the rear roll center up is important.

- Jtoby

 

[blcknspo0ln]

okay, after all those mind numbing hours of reading about suspension i've decided on HR sport springs and tokico blues. nice midrange cost with a good ride. and NO, i dont have money for koni's

 

[PaulPDX]

okay, after all those mind numbing hours of reading about suspension

It's not that complicated.

 

[my95tsi]

Well you made a good choice and you will be very happy with that setup.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

thanks my95tsi

paul - it isn't ,but EVERY review is different. this thread says that gr2's suck and are close to stock performance, while others say gr2's are GREAT. some say AGX's rock, others say they suck.. etc. etc.

that's the part that gets me all whacked out. but at least i finally made a decision

 

[Vypr]

Depending on your application....we drag race ours at Maple Grove and daily drive the daylights out of it. You don't need anything expensive. Tokico's front and rear 179.99 set (2), front and rear struct bars 59.99, cut the stock springs 1 1/2 coils to lower the car approx 2". Great handling and looks.

 

[PaulPDX]

thanks my95tsi

paul - it isn't ,but EVERY review is different. this thread says that gr2's suck and are close to stock performance, while others say gr2's are GREAT. some say AGX's rock, others say they suck.. etc. etc.

that's the part that gets me all whacked out. but at least i finally made a decision

That's because only a few people give honest reviews of the stuff they own. Most people hype what they have, because it's what they have and they've spent money on it.

"I bought it, therefore it's the shit"

Hang around car forums long enough and you can spot that mentality a mile away. Makes forums like this useless in a way; too many opinions and not enough fact. Luckily there are a few poeple who give honest reviews and don't mind trashing garbage even if they own it. You can't take everyone's word. I mean, if someone told you it's good to jump off a bridge would you? Obviously not.

Take everything you hear or read with a grain of salt. Reviews that actually gives the pros and the cons tend to be more truthful than the mindless raves.

 

[jtmcinder]

There are two other things that you can do to help yourself weed out the bad advice. First, make sure that the person has either some direct experience or training. Don't take performance suspension advice from someone who has never autoXed or road-raced (and "whoopin on Honduhs on da twisties" doesn't count). Second, read their profile to see what they currently run and then ask what they would have done differently if they were starting over and why. Maybe, suddenly, they aren't so high on the AGXs and Sportlines, after all.

- Jtoby

 

[Queue]

PaulPDX,

Good point! I'm not exactly knowledgable in suspension tuning as much yet, but let me try to give my 2 cents.

I now have Tein SS suspension on my 96 non-turbo Talon. I could only compare it to what I had before, which were Dropzone coilover sleeves with Tokico Blue shocks. DO NOT EVER BUY DROPZONES! (I've learnt my lesson..and it's true, do it right the first time and save money in the long run!) But my Tokico's are still in great condition. They have survived the Dropzone's brutality!

I was originally going to purchase the Tein basics, but opted for the SS simply because I wanted the control for dampening just in case I needed to tweak it more for my preference!

blcknspo0ln - You can have my Blues if you want. They are just sitting in my house. They've been used for about 3 to 4 months. They still seem fine, just needs a little cleaning.

 

[Queue]

jtmcinder,

May I ask your professional opinion? I have Tein SS suspension on my car, both rear and front currently set at level 12 dampening (maximum levels of 16 where 16 is the softest dampening point). Should I have the rear set at a stiffer dampening point for performance? Keep in mind that it is a daily driven car and I still would like to keep a satisfactory comfortable ride!

By the way, the Teins seem to settle naturally with the fronts a bit lower then the rear. Should I keep it this way?

 

[jtmcinder]

I'd keep it up at 12 or so front and rear on the street, but I'd crank them both down - and the rears more than the fronts - for autoXing. Remember that TEINs adjust compression and rebound together, so cranking them down to get more rebound (yummy) will also raise compression (yuk). The reason for cranking the rears down a lot anyway is that you need to be able to get the tail loose for autoXing. The default spring rates for all TEIN packages don't move enough weight transfer to the rear (probably because stiff rears are not so pleasant on the street). The reason for keeping them up at 12 or so on the street is also to keep the compression down.

Having the nose lower than the rear is good for both launching and cornering. As to the latter, we are again trying to get the tail loose, to get our pigs to turn. I'd leave that alone, too.

- Jtoby

ps. my "professional opinion" would have to be limited to questions about human perception, attention, and motor control ... I'm a cognitive psych prof at Penn State