Valve Terrain Noise/failure

[johnovision27]

Alrighty, just starting this thread as a more streamline topic.
Rule number one, never let you friends drive you car! Bad things will happen!
haven't really pushed the car hard except for one run this evening. didn't/never goes an inch over 10PSI of boost, but now have rattle above 3000rpm....... just sounds like something is loose.

the next day, i topped up the oil just until i got back to toronto to do a change, but enroute, it went from running smooth and normal to what felt like a minor drop in power, then there was a huge rattling sound like something literally fell off under the valve cover. upon slowing down and downshifting, the engine just quit. only when i released the clutch back into 4th gear, it came back to life with that heart dropping *clunk clunk clunk* until depressing the clutch again and stopping it.

Got it towed back, valve cover off and did a makeshift inspection. THANK GOD! all 16 valves are still in place with their retainers, so i didn't drop a valve. however, i did notice what looks like burn marks or scoring on cylinder 2 intake cams.
There are no holes or leaking oil from the lower block as far as i can see and everything else looks intact.

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ideas, past experiences, or suggestions GREATLY appreciated!!!
Maybe a bad oil pump??

also, just on a side note, should you get a new gasket when replacing the valve cover?

 

[boostedtwo]

I wonder if your lash adjusters and taking a poop?

 

[johnovision27]

getting clogged? not to sure.... i was just going to flush the oil system, but i'm not sure whether or not i need to put the valve cover back on to run it.... i remember reading that you didn't have to, i'm just trying to find out where.
BEST case, only needed a good oil change.

 

[GooeyGus]

yeah you need the valvecover on when you run it. Otherwise you will have a huge tower of oil squirting out the side of the head. If you can figure out a way to direct that oil over the cams and everything, I guess you would be ok, but it would be messy!

 

[johnovision27]

alright, new oil is in. oil filter cleaned, but now the engine won't crank, at all! lots of battery juice. the engine won't rotate. but, this morning it was rotating fine. (spark plug cables disconnected and pushing it in 4th gear, just to watch everything was moving properly) ideas?

 

[johnovision27]

Going to have to wait 2 weeks until exams are overwith before i can take apart the bottom end. Did some more research and it's sounding more and more like rod knock. Everything on the valve terrain sounded and looked fine.

However, still not to sure why the engine won't rotate at all. It was ran for 5 seconds before the new oil was put in to make sure it still started and I turned the engine off, it didn't stop itself. Then after draining the system (only about 1.5L of black...) and filling it back up with 4.4L of 5w30, it won't crank at all.

Ideas??

 

[Delta Cam]

does not sound good either way, can you get wrench on crank bolt?

any metal flakes present in oil anywhere?

 

[donniekak]

If only one and a half quarts of oil drained out you probably have spun some bearings.

 

[Delta Cam]

the markings/damage on the cam is usually caused by valve float, or possibly in this case low oil pressure to the lifters which allowed them to become "loose" and the rocker arms "bounced" around on the lobes.
correct lifters will always hold tight pressure on the rocker arm which will track the lobe correctly.

 

[johnovision27]

are the cams or lifters compromised in any way? everything was still moving as it should and nothing is loose vertically or axially.
There was no metal flakes in the oil what so ever, no coolant either. just black as night.
I might have to agree with you there donnie. I was talking to another guy who described the same symptoms as I ended up having, and he spun a bearing or 2. So, I'm thinking if this is bad enough then I'll not only have to drop the crank and get it machined, but i may have to get the block repaired as well. Most likly going to cost over 800 to repair everything :S.........
Maybe just pick up a new short block? There's someone up here selling a 4G63 short block, new! for $500. I'll see what the damage after exams. thanks for the input folks.

 

[Kickerbeast]

I'd pull the timing belt and plugs out of it and see if you can turn the crank with a wratchet. Just be careful you don't smack a valve. It is turns freely, then try each cam. Better to narrow it down now before you tear the whole things apart. That way you know where to look. Also, after you pull the belt, if everything turns fine, you can pull the cams and crank the engine over to see if you get oil to the head. I'm not sure if they run a restrictor or not, but I've seen sportbikes get the restrictor plugged up and not get oil to the head. If you lost oil pressure, then the lifters wouldn't be able to efficiently open the valves and the car would die, plus there would be lots of noise from them and it would explain the marks on the cams. These are the things I would look at if I were you.

 

[Rob10_99]

Looks like the cam lobe has a crack in it, am I seeing things?

 

[Kickerbeast]

which pic? I was thinking the lob on the cylinder 2 intake looked odd on the bottom pic, but I think it is just the light.

 

[Delta Cam]

Looks like the cam lobe has a crack in it, am I seeing things?

just a little scar from the edge of the roller follower digging into it. See it all the time.

 

[johnovision27]

The timing belt is still in sync with the cams (or very very close....) When it stopped, the 2 marks were just off center of eachother and the mark on the lower end of the block (having a brain fart...can't remember the name) is almost in line with the other arrow. so, i don't think a valve is hitting. I'll be trying the breaker bar crank when i get it up on jacks. *FINGERS CROSSED!!*
I don't think there is an issue with the cams or valves though, because everything seemed to be working properly for the short time i watched it.
I was only wondering about the scoring on the lobes. there are no cracks and they're only on the no. 2 cylinder intake. picture 1 and 2 are both included in no. 3.. just zoomed out.

Kicker, i'll be sure to give that a shot, but i'm sure that all the cams still turn freely. I fear the damage is on the lower end

When i started the thread i thought it was a valve issue, but i'm almost sure that it's a bearing issue.

Lastly, it's just the light. no worries there

 

[falcon8r]

If the engine somehow ingested some liquid, the engine will not turn over. This can easily happen and if the cooling system is at all compromised, do not try to force the engine over. Remove all the spark plugs and turn it over on the starter. The bad rod will be heard even on the starter if you listen. That is as far as you need to go. If the radiator overflow or filler neck smell of combustion , fluid is brownish...don't bother anything else and tear it down. By your pics the two lifters at no 2 int. are collapsed more than the others too. Tres...

 

[blowinsmoke95]

usual rod knock.... constant starting, stopping, restarting can cause lock-up which is exactly what happened to my 1g... light rod knock turned into heavy rod knock then finally it locked up... if money,time, and personal experience meet together in your scenario i would highly suggest just finding a nice used motor and sawpping... now is also the time most dsm'rs choose to do the OH SO FAMOUS 6 bolt SWAP.... but the decision is entirely yours....

 

[johnovision27]

There's been no mixing of coolant and oil. When trying to turn the motor over, the spark plugs were out to eliviate the pressure but still no luck. The 2 lifters are a little shorter because those lobes are just about to release pressure on the valves. They should move.... right?

And finally, I was hoping to just put a new bottom end in . I can get a new short block for 500. I haven't checked the head, but hopefully it will still be good.

Haven't really looked into a 6-bolt swap. What are the differences/benifits??

 

[johnovision27]

Threw a rod.... whomp whomp....
I'll post up some pictures tomorrow for some input.