2G Using stock rad fan wiring for SPAL

[TurboTsiThatFly]

1600 CFM for the stock standard fan, not sure on the AC fan, but I believe it is less

thanks for the info. its much apperciated.

Its not a dumb question at all, in fact it raises a really good question as to what do you replace them with in order to maintain or improve your cooling. One of the good things about our cars is that the stock fans are more than capable, that is until you put a huge FMIC blocking airflow.

I have done a ton of reading posts, going to manufacture websites, calling people on the phone to see what my options were.

So far the only thing I really found is the SPAL fans, there is a bunch of model numbers, but from what I found they are the most accurate as far as actual CFM. Other brands "claim" to flow 1200cfm or higher but they really don't.

My experience so far is that 2 12" fans work on the engine side of the radiator, but 12" fans DON'T work on the FMIC on the a/c condensor. If you don't have a/c then I you might have a little more room but I don't know if the 12" fans will work.

I am working on a write-up for my cooling ideas.

So far what I have to contribute is:

1. hood pins (Aerocatch) and remove hood release.
2. lower forward scoop; this goes under the radiator in is basically a piece of metal bent to direct airflow from under the car to the area between the radiator and condenser.
3. I am trying to find a way to duct the two holes that the stock 2gb driving lights over the VRSF pipes and into the area between the radiator and condenser.
4. For overkill I am running 1 12" puller on the passenger/engine side of the radiator. I have 1 10" as a pusher on the driver/FMIC side and planning on putting 1 more 10" once the hood latch assembly is removed.

For the wiring I am going to go through a relay and use diodes to prevent voltage from going down a wire that is not powered (ie they signal wires that are part of the 4 wire plugs on both stock fans).

I like your ideas. If you get a write up going im going to follow it from beggining to end. I may start doing some of your suggestions myself.

 

[Boomdeeze]

Whats weird is my slim fans won't turn on unless I turn them on via link, so they run all the time. I can't remember how I wired them three years ago and im not by my car now so I can't check. Would this be because I only took one positive and one negative rather than both positives and negatives?

 

[TurboTsiThatFly]

Which spal fans are you guys using?

Do you guys think these fans will do the trick? They look legit. Anybody ever use them personally? Here is the link to them. Id order them in black of course. http://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=16655&cat=492&page=1

 

[69_luv]

I think this might help some with the problem with 4 wires per plug.

With ECUFlash and the 25570100 mod hex there is a box towards the bottom that controls fan speed. It has all the variables for the wires that go to the two stock fans. We should be able to set all values but 2 or 3 to a higher value of C than is possible for the car. Basically its our own voltage switch built for us.

What I am trying today is:
I have a little box with lightbulbs and a 6ft harness and alligator clips. I am
I am going to set just Low Off, and Low On with the range that I want. If I set my "low/ACoff on" to 71, and "low/ACoff" off to 70 and have this control my smaller 10" pusher.

Then my "high/ACoff on" to 95, and "high/ACoff off" to 94.

The other values I am going to put in incriments so when they happen one of the lights that cooresponds to the wire at the fan will light up for me.
With that I should be able to set my "AND" variable where when the AC is and my low temp is reached both fans will turn on.

Thats the plan.
Do you guys with Link have the same option for fan controls?

 

[Boomdeeze]

Which spal fans are you guys using?

Do you guys think these fans will do the trick? They look legit. Anybody ever use them personally? Here is the link to them. Id order them in black of course. EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

Man thats expensive, I bought my second 12" fan from ebay for 25 shipped. I actually have a problem where my car runs too cold. I have my fans ran so they turn on when the ignition is on so that may be contributing to it. I am installing a stock thermostat to try and get my temps up.

 

[TurboTsiThatFly]

Man thats expensive, I bought my second 12" fan from ebay for 25 shipped. I actually have a problem where my car runs too cold. I have my fans ran so they turn on when the ignition is on so that may be contributing to it. I am installing a stock thermostat to try and get my temps up.

I agree but if they work flawlessly then the price would be well worth it. But would they be more efficient then the factory fans? And also how many dsmers have used this setup of fans?

 

[romeen]

I agree but if they work flawlessly then the price would be well worth it. But would they be more efficient then the factory fans? And also how many dsmers have used this setup of fans?

I've been running those for the last 10 years. They work extremely well and are quite powerful. FAL rates them at 2500 CFM. I don't know what the factory units are rated at but the FAL fans seem significantly more powerful to me. One very important feature of these is that the shroud is a custom fit and covers the entire radiator.

Having said that, the factory fans are actually pretty good and powerful for an oem piece and are sufficient for most. But the FAL's do free up a good amount a space.

 

[69_luv]

I agree but if they work flawlessly then the price would be well worth it. But would they be more efficient then the factory fans? And also how many dsmers have used this setup of fans?

I still think its too expensive considering the other options from SPAL.

For the 10" SPAL look for p/n: 30102058, this is the high performance "push" that can go on the a/c condensor behind the FMIC.

For the radiator side look at p/n: 30103202, or 30102038. If you search for SPAL fans on ebay look at their part numbers and try to cross reference them. Both the 12" fans I mentioned are over 1600cfm. As stated above SPAL fans are not over exagerrated on their airflow numbers (if anything they are under-rated). The 12" fan actually fits into the stock shroud on the passenger side. I just cut out the stock fan and put the 12" spal in its place. Mounted it with 4 bolts into the shroud and it almost looks like the stock fan in it.

 

[TurboTsiThatFly]

I still think its too expensive considering the other options from SPAL.

For the 10" SPAL look for p/n: 30102058, this is the high performance "push" that can go on the a/c condensor behind the FMIC.

For the radiator side look at p/n: 30103202, or 30102038. If you search for SPAL fans on ebay look at their part numbers and try to cross reference them. Both the 12" fans I mentioned are over 1600cfm. As stated above SPAL fans are not over exagerrated on their airflow numbers (if anything they are under-rated). The 12" fan actually fits into the stock shroud on the passenger side. I just cut out the stock fan and put the 12" spal in its place. Mounted it with 4 bolts into the shroud and it almost looks like the stock fan in it.

Would you happen to have a picture of your fans? I would like to see this. How much space did it free up? And if you dont have a picture could you take one for me. Please 8)

 

[romeen]

Would you happen to have a picture of your fans? I would like to see this. How much space did it free up? And if you dont have a picture could you take one for me. Please 8)

Is this directed at 69_luv or me? I only ask because of your reference to freed up space which I had mentioned.

 

[TurboTsiThatFly]

Is this directed at 69_luv or me? I only ask because of your reference to freed up space which I had mentioned.

This was directed at 69_luv. Sry for the confusion. I do apperciate your response though

 

[RipperXX]

Sorry for a little off topic post, but this thread got me to searching around a little and I found this.

Maradyne MJS22K Jetstreme Platinum Fan It is a dual 12" 15 x 26" and has a CFM rating over 3,000cfm Though it's thicker than the flex-a-lite shrouded setups, if that didn't cause any problems on X setup then... looks like a pretty sweet item to me.

 

[romeen]

Sorry for a little off topic post, but this thread got me to searching around a little and I found this.

Maradyne MJS22K Jetstreme Platinum Fan It is a dual 12" 15 x 26" and has a CFM rating over 3,000cfm Though it's thicker than the flex-a-lite shrouded setups, if that didn't cause any problems on X setup then... looks like a pretty sweet item to me.

According to that site those fans draw 36A! That's a lot of current. I'm not certain, but it could have negative effect on the rest of the electrical system.

 

[RipperXX]

Thoughts on using the OEM wiring harness to trigger a relay like we do with rewiring the fuel pump setups on our cars and just run heavier gauge wire from the battery to power the fans? Or think with that kind of amp draw it could still be over taxing the electrical on the car due to our weak alternators?....esp at idle. I suppose I could see issues with that kind of draw though im not sure what the flex a lite unit draws or the stock fans for that matter :/. I know low voltage can effect the performance of the fuel injectors though and make adjust fuel trims a pita. But again just asking what others thoughts are on this unit being a possible improvement over the stock fans.


Which btw, has anyone measured the thickness of the stock fans? Im still over seas so no where my car and it's parts to check things like this.

 

[69_luv]

I did some quick measurments and that fan would be too close to the hotside of the turbo/O2. You only have 4 inches to really work with between the radiator and the turbo.
I can't keep her cool with just two fans (the 12" puller on the engine side, and the 10" pusher on the FMIC side) so I added another 12" fan. I have the small 10" coming on at 190, if thats not enough the 12" (passenger engine side) comes on when temp hits 195, and then the 12" driver/engine side comes on with A/C and/or when temp hits 200.

As far as clearance I like it a lot better with out the driver/engine side fan in there but I have a solid 2" clearance all around the motor. Stock passenger fan is around 3.5". We can find slim fans all day long, and shrouds are great but if your going to run a O2 with wastegate provision or say external dump you really don't want a fan right there. My problem was I kept melting the blades of the fan. The cfm of the fan is pretty important but not as important as mounting depth.

I think optimally it would be best to have 2 10" fans with the highest actual CFM (like maybe the SPAL 30102057). The only thing is they are going to have to be pretty slim to fit between the condensor and the FMIC.

Oh BTW on the amp draw of that fan/shroud combo; that really isn't that bad. The SPAL fans are rated at 30amp draw each. At the rate I am right now I am pulling almost 80amp plus. Yes a new alternator is at the top of my list right now. At idle my fans are drawing too much power. I changed my idle to 950rpm's to try and help out. I think I am going with the Alterstart, or maybe one of the Saturn alternators in the factory location.

Something I almost forgot what-ever the mounting depth it gives you, like 3.56 inches, add 1/4 to 1/2 inch for a foam spacer of some sort. You can't have the fan sitting right on the radiator because how your mounting the fan to the car there is going to be either the bolt head or rivet on the side that goes against the radiator. I found that out when I was trying to fab up brackets for the fan that is on my driver/engine side. I was waisting to much time with my brackets that I said f-it and did the quick zips (fan mounting kit). I had to space the fan off the radiator just a bit so the tiny bolt I was using wasn't sitting into the radiator fins.

I cut the stock fan out of the stock shroud on the passenger side and mounted a 12" slim fan in that shroud. It almost looks stock, until you hear it anyway.
Here is pics what I have so far on the fans.

 

[romeen]

Thoughts on using the OEM wiring harness to trigger a relay like we do with rewiring the fuel pump setups on our cars and just run heavier gauge wire from the battery to power the fans?

Our stock setup already uses relays in the fan circuit. I don't know if running larger gauge wire will make a significant difference. But it shouldn't hurt anything and IMO is never a bad idea. Since most guys wire it up so that two hot wires are connected to a single wire from the fan, that fan wire might be the limiting factor.

 

[69_luv]

Thoughts on using the OEM wiring harness to trigger a relay like we do with rewiring the fuel pump setups on our cars and just run heavier gauge wire from the battery to power the fans? Or think with that kind of amp draw it could still be over taxing the electrical on the car due to our weak alternators?....esp at idle. I suppose I could see issues with that kind of draw though im not sure what the flex a lite unit draws or the stock fans for that matter :/. I know low voltage can effect the performance of the fuel injectors though and make adjust fuel trims a pita. But again just asking what others thoughts are on this unit being a possible improvement over the stock fans.


Which btw, has anyone measured the thickness of the stock fans? Im still over seas so no where my car and it's parts to check things like this.

Romeen hit it on the head, the SPAL wire at the fan is the bottleneck for running the larger wire. I think the reason why most of us that run the aftermarket fans on the stock wire is because the stock fans pulled enough that the change is causing too much heat build up in the wire.
There would be nothing wrong at all with using a relay, and by doing so you are going to be able to put a 30fuse inline between the battery. If you run 10g to a relay then split it from there to say 12g or 14g you would be good. The trigger wire could come from either plug. If you wanted your own fan switch set it to the yellow wire with blue strip on the a/c plug and when you hit your a/c switch the fans kick on via your trigger wire to the relay. All kinds of stuff you could do.
I have checked the wire connections and the wire seems good, I have one fan per power wire, I would not try to run two fans on one power wire off the stock harness.

 

[Diego Estrozi]

I still think its too expensive considering the other options from SPAL.

For the 10" SPAL look for p/n: 30102058, this is the high performance "push" that can go on the a/c condensor behind the FMIC.

For the radiator side look at p/n: 30103202, or 30102038. If you search for SPAL fans on ebay look at their part numbers and try to cross reference them. Both the 12" fans I mentioned are over 1600cfm. As stated above SPAL fans are not over exagerrated on their airflow numbers (if anything they are under-rated). The 12" fan actually fits into the stock shroud on the passenger side. I just cut out the stock fan and put the 12" spal in its place. Mounted it with 4 bolts into the shroud and it almost looks like the stock fan in it.

I just did the same, installed the 30102028 in the stock shroud passenger side. It is was necessary to use a dremmel to cut the inside diameter where the motor goes in because the stock motor is thinner than the Spal motor. It is an easy job.
My old stock blade had the coupling at the electric motor chewed. I almost blew everything.