2G Using stock rad fan wiring for SPAL

[mosul210]

Hate to bring this thread back from the dead but I have a quick question.

I'm installing a Spal fan to replace my AC fan on a 1G. The Spal has only 2 wires - solid black and solid blue. The factory fan plug has 4 - solid black, solid blue, and 2 multi color wires.

I connected the solid blacks, and solid blues together. The additional multi color wires on the factory fan plug I just cut off. Now I only have 2 wires on the fan plug that plugs into the car's wiring harness. Is this correct? I've heard of people connecting the multi color wires together on the factory fan plug instead of cutting them off as I did. I just want to make sure the fan turns on as it should.

I've noticed the Spal fan will turn on once the AC in engaged but it sometimes cycles (on and off) while the engine fan (passenger side) will always stay on with the AC on. Is the AC fan supposed to cycle like that? I thought it should always be on, and it was the engine fan that was supposed to cycle depending on temperature.

 

[Empir3 X]

has anybody figured out if the A/C wiring is the same as the Cooling? After i had to remove my A/C fan to fit my Ext WG and dump pipe the coling fan stopped kicking on. I plugged the A/C fan back in by holding it above the engine bay to test my theory and the cooling fan kicked right on once it was plugged in.

Reason i ask this is i am going to go and buy a slimline fan and wire it to the A/C side if i cannot figure this out. I think my problem may be relay related. Not sure. All wiring is stock.

Thanks, Alex

 

[DashLaflash]

For anybody still trying to figure out how the rad. fan wiring goes, I have sucessfully figured it out today.... It goes:

Blue-green AND Black wires to the fan's ground wire and
White-black AND White-blue wires to the fan's power wire.

There is no side effects to doing this like this and the fan will operate just as the stock fan did.

I have my fans wired this way and the car keeps overheating. The needle will start to rise over the halfway point if it idles long enough. The main fan will not turn on until coolant temps reach 213 degrees. I put a new thermostat in over the winter but its an autozone one. I also replaced the coolant temperature sensor today. After the main fan kicks in I can turn on the a/c fan with the heat on and the needle goes back to halfway. Its pretty frustrating but do I have a bad relay or something? What would cause my fan to turn on late?

 

[99gst_racer]

Before I was running Link, mine would activate at 210*F and my temps would drop to around 200*. Now, I use Link to kick the fans on at around 195* IIRC. Try wiring both fans to come on at the same time. That's how I've always had mine, and I've never had any issues.

 

[romeen]

has anybody figured out if the A/C wiring is the same as the Cooling? After i had to remove my A/C fan to fit my Ext WG and dump pipe the coling fan stopped kicking on. I plugged the A/C fan back in by holding it above the engine bay to test my theory and the cooling fan kicked right on once it was plugged in.

Reason i ask this is i am going to go and buy a slimline fan and wire it to the A/C side if i cannot figure this out. I think my problem may be relay related. Not sure. All wiring is stock.

Thanks, Alex

Yes, same basic idea. Both grounds to fan's ground, both power wires to fan's positive wire. On my '99 I have the solid black and blue/black wires (AC side) both connected to the fan's ground wire.

The solid blue and blue/white wires both connected to the fan's positive wire.

This method of wiring allows the ECU to control fan activation just like stock except that you lose the low/high (2 speed) capability.

I have my fans wired this way and the car keeps overheating. The needle will start to rise over the halfway point if it idles long enough. The main fan will not turn on until coolant temps reach 213 degrees. I put a new thermostat in over the winter but its an autozone one. I also replaced the coolant temperature sensor today. After the main fan kicks in I can turn on the a/c fan with the heat on and the needle goes back to halfway. Its pretty frustrating but do I have a bad relay or something? What would cause my fan to turn on late?

213 is at the late end of the "normal" range but not too terribly bad. Here is some info that steve had given me a while back which may be helpful.

The specs for the thermostats are a little different.
The 1G starts opening at 88C and should be fully open by 100C
The 1G fans cycle on between 82-88C and off at 78C or less.

The 2G starts opening at 82C and should be fully open by 95C.
The 2G fan control is more complex. At idle they turn on at 95-100C and off at 95C or less. Between 28-50 MPH they turn on between 90-100C and off at 90C or less.

One problem with many aftermarket fans is that the shrouds don't cover the entire radiator. A FMIC compounds the problem. Not sure if this is the case with you but something to consider.

I have the dual FAL's which shroud the entire radiator. Fans controlled by stock ECU, stock temp T-stat, no oil cooler and never get above the halfway point on the stock temp gauge. In fairness, however, I don't have a FMIC.

BTW, 95-100*C converts to 203-212*F.

 

[DashLaflash]

So is that a safe temperature for my car to run at? This is the only thing stopping me from registering my dsm and finally getting some break in miles on it. Can I just ignore the needle rising a little bit or will I have to turn on the A/C to kick on the second fan and cool it down a little?

 

[99gst_racer]

Don't worry about 213*. Start worrying above 220*. And like I said, you should just wire both fans to activate simultaneously (without the A/C). No sense in having two fans and only one running.

 

[DashLaflash]

Ok good the temps haven't gone over 213* yet. I have to admit seeing the needle go up is going to bug me a little . I didn't wire them together because I plan on keeping the A/C. I figured I would keep the wiring the way it was from the factory. I should probably install my dsmlink since you said you can change what temp the fans come on at.

 

[gbell]

Before I was running Link, mine would activate at 210*F and my temps would drop to around 200*. Now, I use Link to kick the fans on at around 195* IIRC. Try wiring both fans to come on at the same time. That's how I've always had mine, and I've never had any issues.

How exactly do you use Link to kick the fans on earlier? Is it just coolant offset? And if so, doesn't that also affect the tune, as in timing will be pulled at an actually lower temp?

I've been having some cooling issues at idle and low speed ever since installing a thicker mishimoto radiator and having to install the slimmer SPAL fans. Right now they are wired stock, and I'm thinking I should wire the AC fan to come on with the other with a relay. But I'm also thinking that maybe these fans are just too weak, and without a shroud just not cutting it, so I may just pony up for a duel FAL setup with a shroud. Expensive, but possibly worth it.

 

[99gst_racer]

Ok good the temps haven't gone over 213* yet. I have to admit seeing the needle go up is going to bug me a little . I didn't wire them together because I plan on keeping the A/C. I figured I would keep the wiring the way it was from the factory. I should probably install my dsmlink since you said you can change what temp the fans come on at.

FYI: You can wire both fans together and still keep A/C. The only difference would be that your cooling fan would never run by itself anymore. That won't affect A/C operation.

 

[99gst_racer]

How exactly do you use Link to kick the fans on earlier? Is it just coolant offset? And if so, doesn't that also affect the tune, as in timing will be pulled at an actually lower temp?

Yup. Dash controls --> Coolant offset. I've got mine set at 15*F and my car seems to typically run about 10-15* cooler than before.

I'm no tuning pro, but I don't think a small change like mine will affect the tune at all. My car still runs above 190* almost all the time. I would think if would have to be substantially cooler to have any affect on timing advance or the tune in general.

I've been having some cooling issues at idle and low speed ever since installing a thicker mishimoto radiator and having to install the slimmer SPAL fans. Right now they are wired stock, and I'm thinking I should wire the AC fan to come on with the other with a relay. But I'm also thinking that maybe these fans are just too weak, and without a shroud just not cutting it, so I may just pony up for a duel FAL setup with a shroud. Expensive, but possibly worth it.

How low of speeds? Yes, have both fans activate at the same time. With two fans present, there's no reason not to. I run very thin SPAL fans without a shroud and I don't have any issues with cooling.

 

[romeen]

So is that a safe temperature for my car to run at? This is the only thing stopping me from registering my dsm and finally getting some break in miles on it. Can I just ignore the needle rising a little bit or will I have to turn on the A/C to kick on the second fan and cool it down a little?

I agree with Paul, don't worry about 213*. Good to know that activation of the AC fan is enough to counteract the increased load put on the motor from using the AC. Stock DSM fans are actually quite powerful.

FYI: You can wire both fans together and still keep A/C. The only difference would be that your cooling fan would never run by itself anymore. That won't affect A/C operation.

Just curious, do you mean connecting both fans to the wiring for the cooling fan only and not having anything connected to the car's AC fan wires?

I run very thin SPAL fans without a shroud and I don't have any issues with cooling.

Yeah, but your car is a freak!

 

[99gst_racer]

Just curious, do you mean connecting both fans to the wiring for the cooling fan only and not having anything connected to the car's AC fan wires?

Yup. I've had mine wired this way since this thread started.

Yeah, but your car is a freak!

 

[romeen]

I ask because the windshield defogger activates the AC system (even though the AC switch inside the car is off). Does it cause any problems with defogging during the winter when it may be too cold for the cooling fan to come on?

 

[99gst_racer]

I ask because the windshield defogger activates the AC system (even though the AC switch inside the car is off). Does it cause any problems with defogging during the winter when it may be too cold for the cooling fan to come on?

No, I've never experienced any issues with it. I don't drive mine in the winter, but I've used the defogger plenty of times in the fall months, and the car never seemed to have any issues with controlling coolant temps with various loads.

 

[Detail]

to the guy with the 213. take your radiator cap to autozone. test it on the one of the pressure testers they have. I did this last year, was dealing with the same drama as you. turned out the cap was holding zero pressure. new cap, tada....

 

[DashLaflash]

to the guy with the 213. take your radiator cap to autozone. test it on the one of the pressure testers they have. I did this last year, was dealing with the same drama as you. turned out the cap was holding zero pressure. new cap, tada....

My Autozone can't test the cap. They rent out a pressure tester to tell the pressure of the whole system. I don't think its my cap because I definately have pressure in the system. I wired the stock fan back in and its still doing the same thing. I don't know what else it could be. I'm just waiting on my version 3 upgrade of dsmlink so I can alter when the fans come on. This is the strangest thing. Getting ECMlink can't be the only solution to this problem .

 

[Detail]

I'm telling you. I changed every hose, the water pump, the thermostat (many times). And it still overheated. If you can't test the cap, BUY A CAP. My system held pressure too. Squeeze a hose and it felt good. But, that doesn't compare. For $15, rule it out. And honestly on the thermostats, I'd opt for OEM. They are built much beefier. Lastly, if you have all of this worked out and possibly your FMIC (if you have one) is blocking too much air, cut a vent or two in your bumper between the headlights. I did this and noticed and immediate drop in temp do to the air bypassing the FMIC and directly hammering the radiator.

 

[69_luv]

I love bringing back old threads, but my colors are different. I noticed that the one guy did something kinda similar but I need a little clarification.

For the connection at the cooling fan the plug has four wires, I am reading the colors below as the first color is on the fan side of the plug, and going to the car side of the plug.
black to black (wire 1),
blue with black stripe to black with white stripe (wire 2),
solid blue to solid blue (wire 3),
blue with white strip to blue with black stripe (wire 4).

I wired up this plug blues together to the positive on the SPAL fan, and the two blacks together to the ground of the fan.



On the A/C plug I need a little help. I metered out the plug and the only one that meters to ground right now is the solid black.
Black to black (wire 1),
yellowish to blue with green stripe (wire 2),
blue to white with black (wire 3),
solid green to white with blue stripe

I don't have link so...
I think instead of messing with low and high speeds, a/c or no that I want both fans on high when temp needs the fans on. Btw my second (a/c) is a lower cfm smaller 10" so it isn't really going to do a whole lot more than the 12" Spal.

 

[69_luv]

Ok so I have been running the past two days on my SPAL install and I have some updates.

First is that I could not install 2 12" SPAL fans. I didn't want to have a fan next to the manifold on the driver side because of the heat (I have melted two of the stock fans already), so I wanted a pusher between the FMIC and the A/C condenser, and the other 12" on the passenger side as a puller. I ended up cutting the stock passenger fan out of its shroud and mounting the SPAL in there and it turned out pretty good. I had to go down to a 10" fan (that only has 650cfm) to go between the FMIC and condenser.

First thing is that I HATE the noise that the SPAL makes, that thing is stupid loud. I feel like an idiot when I drive by people and they all turn their head because my electric fan is so loud....grrrrr

Second is that I thought that on the stock setup the larger fan (on the passenger side) was the cooling fan and the lower profile (driver side) was the fan that kicks on with A/C. Apparently not? Anyway I have the fan coming on at 203 F but its having a hard time keeping temp under 220.

No bubbles, new t-stat, and cap, fresh fluid at 70% water and 30% antifreeze, and a bottle of water wetter.

My smaller fan is turning on with the A/C, and I am thinking that its not enough cfm. So maybe mount to pushers side by side between the FMIC and condenser and then the 12" in the stock shroud....

Are all the SPAL fans so loud? Does anyone have any other suggestions? If not I am just putting the stock fan back in on the passenger side, and run 2x smaller ones as pushers so I don't have to have a fan right next to the DP, manifold, turbo.

Another funny thing is that my idle is really lean now... cruise and WOT are money. I wonder if idle is off because of not using low, high temp wires??

 

[miguelmcv]

If you are having problems with keeping the temp down, then you wont make it with just 2 10's pushers.

Believe me, I had the same problem with overheating, and did 2 10's pushers (between Fmic and Condencer), and they were not enough to keep it cool.
I ended up adding a 12' in the passenger side and it did the trick.
Also, I wire them, so when one turns ON, they all turns ON at the same time.

 

[69_luv]

Ok so I am pushing 220 now and I am staying at of boost as much as possible so something has to change. On top of that its not really hot in Florida yet, so if I am hitting 220+ now then when it gets hot here I know that we are going to have problems.

My SPAL (puller mounted in stock shroud but on passenger side) is coming on around 203, and my smaller (10") is on the front of my condensor on driver side.

Now the factor wiring has low and high signal wires, the A/C side should have on with A/C, and on when temp is high. I read on here that I could put a diode between the power wires (like a zenor that is one-way) to prevent voltage from going down the wire that is not on and into the stock relay harness.

So here is my plan I think. I have a stock rad cap, going to replace that with the mishimoto high pressure (1.3bar) cap, change my stock t-stat to the mishimoto (62C), change the stock radiator and put in the PR racing radiator with shroud and fans. I am not real keen on the idea of a fan being on the radiator driver side, but I got to do something.

Next, now that I have one fan set as a pusher on the driver side between the condensor and FMIC, I think I am going to add another pusher right beside it. The two fans on the radiator will recieve signals from the cooling, the two smaller fans set to recieve from A/C.

Here is the wiring question:

If I want to utilize the stock wiring (4 wires), but my fans are only 2 wires all I should need to do is set up ONE relay per two fans. For the signal wire from the factor harness to the relay to turn the fans on. Sense there is two signal wires I need to put in a diode between those two signal wires right? Its going to need to be around a 60amp diode right, 30 for each fan? There is THREE signal wires on the plug to the A/C fans, so again two fans with one relay, but this time I am going to need 2 diodes to bridge all three signal wires right?

I am also thinking about putting hood pins in that way I can remove the factor latch and this could let me run a larger fan on the pusher side. I think if I am running 4 fans that its going to be time to upgrade the alternator as I am allready weak on volts...
grrrr I should have just stuck with the stock fans!!!!

 

[TurboTsiThatFly]

Hate to ask a dumb question but what cfm do the factory fans flow? Cause I wanna make sure I get fans that have enough cooling cfm capabilitys. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[thomcasey]

1600 CFM for the stock standard fan, not sure on the AC fan, but I believe it is less

 

[69_luv]

Hate to ask a dumb question but what cfm do the factory fans flow? Cause I wanna make sure I get fans that have enough cooling cfm capabilitys. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

Its not a dumb question at all, in fact it raises a really good question as to what do you replace them with in order to maintain or improve your cooling. One of the good things about our cars is that the stock fans are more than capable, that is until you put a huge FMIC blocking airflow.

I have done a ton of reading posts, going to manufacture websites, calling people on the phone to see what my options were.

So far the only thing I really found is the SPAL fans, there is a bunch of model numbers, but from what I found they are the most accurate as far as actual CFM. Other brands "claim" to flow 1200cfm or higher but they really don't.

My experience so far is that 2 12" fans work on the engine side of the radiator, but 12" fans DON'T work on the FMIC on the a/c condensor. If you don't have a/c then I you might have a little more room but I don't know if the 12" fans will work.

I am working on a write-up for my cooling ideas.

So far what I have to contribute is:

1. hood pins (Aerocatch) and remove hood release.
2. lower forward scoop; this goes under the radiator in is basically a piece of metal bent to direct airflow from under the car to the area between the radiator and condenser.
3. I am trying to find a way to duct the two holes that the stock 2gb driving lights over the VRSF pipes and into the area between the radiator and condenser.
4. For overkill I am running 1 12" puller on the passenger/engine side of the radiator. I have 1 10" as a pusher on the driver/FMIC side and planning on putting 1 more 10" once the hood latch assembly is removed.

For the wiring I am going to go through a relay and use diodes to prevent voltage from going down a wire that is not powered (ie they signal wires that are part of the 4 wire plugs on both stock fans).