ECMlink Turned the boost UP.......e85 i love you

[SasaniFab]

Ok guys, I went to the shop today and pumped out all of the race gas and replaced it with e85.The car is idling great, I just need to work on the sd table. Im also running rich in some areas. The car feels fast.......Im currently running the walbro 450 with fic highz 1650s. I had to come in early as I blew off a vacuum line.

 

[kmetiuk]

Looks really good man! Your BoostEst and Omni line up really really good. So rare to see that. Also you have your battery injector deadtime setup in DA and that is also SUPER rare too see. Good work crossing them "t's" and dotting them "i's".

Your AFREst and LC1 are close-ish too. Your SD VE table needs some more tuning to smooth it out a bit more in a few cells. Also the SD VE table has some "notchyness" or rather lacks smoothness in a few cells. Hard to articulate. But at 4500 your jumping from 100 down to 99 and then up too 101 then down to 100 then to 102 then to 99. It should be smoother along one set RPM (4500 for ex) as you go up in load cells. As I understand it the ECU can act funny if you jump back and forth quickly like that.

One thing I noticed is your NBO2 is not setup and I see you have it setup in the pin assignments to look at the LC1. Turn that on and your AFR will be a loooot smoother at cruise and idle. Currently not having it setup is messing with your long term fuel trims. Your LTFT Lo is pegged at 12.5% and your STFT is -16% in areas. That's due to the NBO2 sim not being on. Turn it on and then reset your long term fuel trims in the "ECU" drop down at the top bar.

Also can you log your CombinedFT as well? Makes it easier to check fuel trims for idle and cruise.

I can see how your new cams are really pushin your peak torque waaay higher in the RPM band....like in the 600-7000 range hey? One thing I'd expect to see is higher VE values in those RPM ranges in the SD VE table...but not certain as I have never run cams on my DSM so I dunno.

Overall excellent work man! How's she feel?

 

[SasaniFab]

Looks really good man! Your BoostEst and Omni line up really really good. So rare to see that. Also you have your battery injector deadtime setup in DA and that is also SUPER rare too see. Good work crossing them "t's" and dotting them "i's".

Your AFREst and LC1 are close-ish too. Your SD VE table needs some more tuning to smooth it out a bit more in a few cells. Also the SD VE table has some "notchyness" or rather lacks smoothness in a few cells. Hard to articulate. But at 4500 your jumping from 100 down to 99 and then up too 101 then down to 100 then to 102 then to 99. It should be smoother along one set RPM (4500 for ex) as you go up in load cells. As I understand it the ECU can act funny if you jump back and forth quickly like that.

One thing I noticed is your NBO2 is not setup and I see you have it setup in the pin assignments to look at the LC1. Turn that on and your AFR will be a loooot smoother at cruise and idle. Currently not having it setup is messing with your long term fuel trims. Your LTFT Lo is pegged at 12.5% and your STFT is -16% in areas. That's due to the NBO2 sim not being on. Turn it on and then reset your long term fuel trims in the "ECU" drop down at the top bar.

Also can you log your CombinedFT as well? Makes it easier to check fuel trims for idle and cruise.

I can see how your new cams are really pushin your peak torque waaay higher in the RPM band....like in the 600-7000 range hey? One thing I'd expect to see is higher VE values in those RPM ranges in the SD VE table...but not certain as I have never run cams on my DSM so I dunno.

Overall excellent work man! How's she feel?

I'm running the oem o2 sensor.....in the factory location. The car is running amazing man.... car feels fast. I'd like to hit the dyno to get a graph for myself as I built the motor myself...... I can't believe how responsive e85 is, my injector duty is already at 7o+ % I'm gunna need more fuel soon ?

 

[SasaniFab]

Your the second person to say that about my o2 sensor.... do I have it setup incorrectly? I'm running factory o2 and the lc2 in a separate location.

 

[kmetiuk]

Your the second person to say that about my o2 sensor.... do I have it setup incorrectly? I'm running factory o2 and the lc2 in a separate location.

Ya my bad, you do have it setup properly and I can see it cycling in the log.

You must just have "old" long term fuel trim data in there. Reset it and do another log (after you setup to log combined FT ) and we can take another look. After reset I think we'll see -4% combinedFT which is close ish.

 

[SasaniFab]

Ya my bad, you do have it setup properly and I can see it cycling in the log.

You must just have "old" long term fuel trim data in there. Reset it and do another log (after you setup to log combined FT ) and we can take another look. After reset I think we'll see -4% combinedFT which is close ish.

I wasn't expecting e85 to perform better than c16- man was I wrong

 

[kmetiuk]

Can you post an idle log too? It helps to make sure global % and deadtimes are bang on.

 

[SasaniFab]

Umm let me see

 

[SasaniFab]

Can you post an idle log too? It helps to make sure global % and deadtimes are bang on.

best example, i polished it up a bit

 

[kmetiuk]

Just took a peek....your front O2 isn't cycling in that one and the STFT and LTFT Lo are 0% and not changing and you are in open loop still so they should be changing. Not sure why tho yet....

Like I can see your LC1 is showing over and under 14.7 but the front O2 voltage is pegged at 0.1-0.2 V. Its weird cause in that first log you can see the O2 cycling.

Here's a lil graph of what the NB Front O2 should output based on AFR's:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Actually now that I am looking at this graph next to your log I don't think your O2 is working properly. In the idle log is mos def not cycling at all and when I look at your first log with the pulls the output voltage does not correlate with the AFR's. It is cycling but it's seems random.

I think you got a bad front O2.

Turn on the NBO2 sim feature in Link (you already have it setup properly so just enable in the NBO2 tab) and post a new idle log.

 

[henrysan]

I'm running the oem o2 sensor.....in the factory location. The car is running amazing man.... car feels fast. I'd like to hit the dyno to get a graph for myself as I built the motor myself...... I can't believe how responsive e85 is, my injector duty is already at 7o+ % I'm gunna need more fuel soon ?

Not at home so cant view your log, what airflow are you seeing at 70% duty cycle on your injectors? Most recommend 85 to 90% duty cycle max, you can kind of guess how much more your injectors can support by calculating how much more of your current airflow is after adding 15-20% since you are at 70 duty cycle

 

[97gsxIA]

Not sure if its because I am on my desktop version, but your fuel tab in the config doesn't show up at all for me.

Not sure how much adjustments you have made up to this point but here are a few things to consider:

1. Your AFRest and LC1WB are off by .4-.7 (at 139-141 seconds in log) - See #2 below. I would also be targeting 12-12.2:1 on E85. But, solve your knock problem first - See #3 below.

2. Go through your WOT pull in your datalog, and track it in your SD tab. Keep your eye on WBfactor and change each cell (by hand not function) a point or two for each degree it is off (up the number for +%WBFactor, lower the number for -%WBFactor. WBFactor% isn't like CombinedFT%, you can get it closer to 0% without a lot of deviation. When it is off 3-4%, you'll notice your boostEST and OMni4Bar values will be off 1-2 psi.

3. Aim for ZERO knock in your tune. Then, and only then can you slowly bump up timing/boost. I don't care what anyone says, detonation, is detonation. 2* of retard, means your are getting 6+ counts of knock and knock is bad, mmkay. If I can run 36psi, 14* of timing, and 12.6:1 AFRs on E85 without knock, so can you.

4. Make sure you are going 100% Full Throttle above 3-3.5Krpm when tuning, most of your pulls are only 100% for a second a the tail end. not being 100% will throw off a lot of numbers in your tune. Its best to stay wide open and consistent every pull for accurate results.

5. What boost is your wastegate/MBC set at? At points I see only 24psi at 6K and others I see 28 at 6K. Are you having trouble controlling your boost? I'm not extremely familiar with a 6266, but I'm assuming you should be hitting max boost before 5800, and shouldn't keep on going up after that. On smaller turbos you can expect for boost to fall off up around 7K, but I wouldn't think it would on a 6266. (just speculation)


Overall, I have seen worse. In fact much worse. But there are definite areas of improvement if you want the most out of your setup. Keep up the good work, and you'll be playing with the big dogs in no time.

On a side note: Still on stock trans eh? Oh, sweet, sweet summer child. If link is anywhere near accurate on your Torque values, you are going to want to start saving up. 400ft/lb of toque is getting up there for a stock trans.

Glad to see more people are doing their own tuning. My biggest advice would be to make small changes.
E85 is forgiving, but not that forgiving.

Good luck bud.

 

[kmetiuk]

Not sure if its because I am on my desktop version, but your fuel tab in the config doesn't show up at all for me.

It's the desktop app....you need to update it. I had this issue and it was just my app was 1 version behind the latest and greatest.

 

[SasaniFab]

Just took a peek....your front O2 isn't cycling in that one and the STFT and LTFT Lo are 0% and not changing and you are in open loop still so they should be changing. Not sure why tho yet....

Like I can see your LC1 is showing over and under 14.7 but the front O2 voltage is pegged at 0.1-0.2 V. Its weird cause in that first log you can see the O2 cycling.

Here's a lil graph of what the NB Front O2 should output based on AFR's:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Actually now that I am looking at this graph next to your log I don't think your O2 is working properly. In the idle log is mos def not cycling at all and when I look at your first log with the pulls the output voltage does not correlate with the AFR's. It is cycling but it's seems random.

I think you got a bad front O2.

Turn on the NBO2 sim feature in Link (you already have it setup properly so just enable in the NBO2 tab) and post a new idle log.

I think the c16 may have killed the front o2 sensor, I have a spare ill throw in

 

[SasaniFab]

Not sure if its because I am on my desktop version, but your fuel tab in the config doesn't show up at all for me.

Not sure how much adjustments you have made up to this point but here are a few things to consider:

1. Your AFRest and LC1WB are off by .4-.7 (at 139-141 seconds in log) - See #2 below. I would also be targeting 12-12.2:1 on E85. But, solve your knock problem first - See #3 below.

2. Go through your WOT pull in your datalog, and track it in your SD tab. Keep your eye on WBfactor and change each cell (by hand not function) a point or two for each degree it is off (up the number for +%WBFactor, lower the number for -%WBFactor. WBFactor% isn't like CombinedFT%, you can get it closer to 0% without a lot of deviation. When it is off 3-4%, you'll notice your boostEST and OMni4Bar values will be off 1-2 psi.

3. Aim for ZERO knock in your tune. Then, and only then can you slowly bump up timing/boost. I don't care what anyone says, detonation, is detonation. 2* of retard, means your are getting 6+ counts of knock and knock is bad, mmkay. If I can run 36psi, 14* of timing, and 12.6:1 AFRs on E85 without knock, so can you.

4. Make sure you are going 100% Full Throttle above 3-3.5Krpm when tuning, most of your pulls are only 100% for a second a the tail end. not being 100% will throw off a lot of numbers in your tune. Its best to stay wide open and consistent every pull for accurate results.

5. What boost is your wastegate/MBC set at? At points I see only 24psi at 6K and others I see 28 at 6K. Are you having trouble controlling your boost? I'm not extremely familiar with a 6266, but I'm assuming you should be hitting max boost before 5800, and shouldn't keep on going up after that. On smaller turbos you can expect for boost to fall off up around 7K, but I wouldn't think it would on a 6266. (just speculation)


Overall, I have seen worse. In fact much worse. But there are definite areas of improvement if you want the most out of your setup. Keep up the good work, and you'll be playing with the big dogs in no time.

On a side note: Still on stock trans eh? Oh, sweet, sweet summer child. If link is anywhere near accurate on your Torque values, you are going to want to start saving up. 400ft/lb of toque is getting up there for a stock trans.

Glad to see more people are doing their own tuning. My biggest advice would be to make small changes.
E85 is forgiving, but not that forgiving.

Good luck bud.

Thanks for the comments, and yes I am running a stock tranny, i was going to go with a jacks drag unit but i think its a waste. Im saving for a ppe dogbox. Ill spend 4k at jacks and still destroy the transmission as it is still stock components. As for why i dont do wot from the get go....im a ***** and im trying to make changes slowly while watching for knock. I think your correct in that im getting ahead of myself, i should lower the boost to wastegate pressure 22psi and work on my tuning. Im also running a act 2600 with street disk so im almost at my limit anyway. Ive decided if im going to build the motor myself that i should learn to tune it. We dont have the excuse to be ignorant anymore in our time......we have access to so much information...its awesome really.

 

[Vegas Smith]

We dont have the excuse to be ignorant anymore in our time

Uh, did you catch the presidential election?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I wasn't expecting e85 to perform better than c16- man was I wrong

Hahaha.....I knew you would love it!!!!! My car does!!!

 

[SasaniFab]

Well 3/4 of the population believe the earth is 6000 years old and that angels follow them around....we won't turn this into a religious debate but you are correct, at least now you can you say, "you have no excuse" dumb dumb

 

[kmetiuk]

Im also running a act 2600 with street disk so im almost at my limit anyway.

I run a 2600 and a street disk as well. My thoughts on clutches are what engineers think of when designing suspension parts. You want to design an inherently "weak" point in the system that will be the first part to break to save the other more $$ parts or harder to change parts. Engineers make the uprights or lower control arms ( in the front anyway) as the first part to break if overloaded. Using a engineered "sacrificial" part like that saves the rest of the system if overloaded (to a point of course). That way your not bending the frame of the car or warping the pick up points.

Based on that I want my clutch to be the weak point in the driveline....I basically want my clutch just to be able to hold the torque when warmed up a bit from some shifts +10% extra holding capacity.

For drag you wouldn't want this as it would make for bad launches, but I plan on road racing my car at the local track eventually and I need that tranny to last for at least an hour or more with 400-450 ft lbs of torque. So based on that I want my clutch to slip if my boost spikes or you drop it to hard on a shift. Shock loading the tranny is just not in the works for my build. I do not launch ever and if i do eventually drag it would not launch hard there either. My issue is gonna me keeping the oil cool enough in the tranny to not eat gears from over heating.

That's just my thoughts on clutches for my build and I dunno what your goals/end game is so to each the own there.

 

[Vegas Smith]

Well 3/4 of the population believe the earth is 6000 years old and that angels follow them around....we won't turn this into a religious debate but you are correct, at least now you can you say, "you have no excuse" dumb dumb

I can tell you from experience there is nothing to gain from talking religion on car boards

 

[SasaniFab]

I run a 2600 and a street disk as well. My thoughts on clutches are what engineers think of when designing suspension parts. You want to design an inherently "weak" point in the system that will be the first part to break to save the other more $$ parts or harder to change parts. Engineers make the uprights or lower control arms ( in the front anyway) as the first part to break if overloaded. Using a engineered "sacrificial" part like that saves the rest of the system if overloaded (to a point of course). That way your not bending the frame of the car or warping the pick up points.

Based on that I want my clutch to be the weak point in the driveline....I basically want my clutch just to be able to hold the torque when warmed up a bit from some shifts +10% extra holding capacity.

For drag you wouldn't want this as it would make for bad launches, but I plan on road racing my car at the local track eventually and I need that tranny to last for at least an hour or more with 400-450 ft lbs of torque. So based on that I want my clutch to slip if my boost spikes or you drop it to hard on a shift. Shock loading the tranny is just not in the works for my build. I do not launch ever and if i do eventually drag it would not launch hard there either. My issue is gonna me keeping the oil cool enough in the tranny to not eat gears from over heating.

That's just my thoughts on clutches for my build and I dunno what your goals/end game is so to each the own there.

One of my bad qualities is that I tend to get ahead of myself. I've been building motors for awhile but I'm new to tuning. It just puts a smile on my face when everything starts to come together. I've come along way..... I made sure this time I didn't take any short cuts and it proved a wise decision. My biggest weakness currently is my drivetrain. I don't launch my transmission whatsoever.... I'm pretty sure it would explode. I'm going to take it "easy" until I can get this dogbox installed. I really have to thank everyone though..... I def couldn't of gotten this far without everyone's help. Much love Now to finish this aluminum rod motor I'm building cough cough

 

[Vegas Smith]

If you have a dogbox on the way then why take it easy? Screw that stock transmission. BTW, they must be paying you damn nurses a bunch of money up there

 

[SasaniFab]

If you have a dogbox on the way then why take it easy? Screw that stock transmission. BTW, they must be paying you damn nurses a bunch of money up there

Most of the funding for this motor came from selling my 2007 sti. I'm looking at this as an investment. I'm hoping that in the future I can make money on the side building motors and tuning. I have a soft spot for my car/parts. I couldn't destroy it , it would bother me to much , if it happens on the road , I'm ok with that. I don't want it to be from my negligence.

 

[SasaniFab]

I have the gear set on the way...... but not the installed unit

 

[SasaniFab]

I am off saturday so im going to start over on wastegate pressure, starting with a oem 2g timing table and work from there. Im going to try and make it so im registering no knock and go from there. Is it possible that the knock im getting is from to much fuel in the combustion chamber? My lc2 is registering in the 10s on several occasions. Could this be due to the sheer volume of fuel? I was having this issue with spraying meth, the car would knock unless i leaned out the afr, the air charge was so dense it would cause hesitation. I also wondering how far the walbro 450 and fic 1650 will get me before i need to go bigger on e85?