Turbo Selection?

[UGOT8UP]

4G63T 6 Bolt engine (engine was put in at 100k miles)
EVOIII 16G Turbo
Ported 2G exaust manifold with Tial 38mm external wastegate dumped into atmosphere
Megan Racing full turbo back exaust stainless steel 3"
Mass Air Flow Translator MAFT
3" GM MAF
750cc injectors
Adjustable FPR with gauge
Walbro 255 fuel pump with hot wire kit
Greddy BOV vented to atsmosphere
FMIC with short piping (still has power steering)
Dogboxracing transmission with double syncro 2nd and welded diff
ACT 2900# with street disc
slightly ported head with Brian Crower 272 cams + 1mm valves
ARP head studs
MLS Felpro head gasket
HKS kevlar timing belt
ECMlink V3
AEM wideband A/F gauge
NGK BPR7ES plugs
Accell 8mm spark plug wires
Custom made underdrive pulley fulley balanced and not as small as other pullies so the engine wont overheat and kill alternators

NO A/C all componets removed
18" wheels with 235 40R18 NANKANG tires
4 bolt rear and axles out of a 93 Talon AWD
Polyurathane engine and transmission mounts

I'm looking for a 450+AWHP turbo to get me into the high 10's with minimal lag that does not cost 2k.
I was thinking about either the SCM3431R or the GT3676R, but I am unsure what kind of HP these turbo's will put down or what Turbine A/R ratioe to order.

I don't want to run 40psi or a super laggy turbo as this is my daily driver, I have a couple of NX NOS kits layin around the house one is dry the other is wet, so I would rather go with a "better responding turbo" with NOS than to have a HUGE slow turbo that is only usabe for 2k RPM. I want to make atleast 450 AWHP on the boost with no spray.

Thank's in advance

 

[JusMX141]

What is your deal bro?

Basically, I like to read threads and reply occasionally. I enjoy assisting DSMers when I can, as well as providing links to places where folks can find brand-name parts for less. I also rebuild turbochargers for my fellow DSMers at unbeatable prices.

What's your deal?

 

[dsm-onster]

I was gonna go for the GT30R, but these guy's talked me into going HX35, I just talked to my local turbo guy and he is getting me one for $975 OTD with tax and shipping

Just curious. You got it from your local shop with a bolton housing, right? Just to clarify, they don't come 'stock' with a bolton housing. Here's one with a bolton housing for $949 you probably saw. Your shop gan get you an hx35 with THAT turbine housing, right? Sorry if you already new this. Just making sure.

Nitrous will make your goal easier to attain for sure. But guys with less turbo have reached that goal. Several of us have reached into the VERY low 11s with stock manifolds. You will definately reach your goal of 450whp without nitrous. The question is will 4050whp with a full weight 1g able to reach the 10s consistantly (aside from one glory run where everything just goes together). I suggest a smim upgrade to insure the 10s.

And I agree. Garrett, Holset, MHI, BW, IHI, whatever: aside from the price, I see no difference in a good turbo core and a good rebuild vs. a new turbo. Bent fins which are bent back straight does not qualify as a good core to me and good cores are plentiful enough not to mess with something like that. Diesel forum classifieds are a great source. The great thing about holset is that the common OEM sizes used on literally millions of trucks/equipment are the size/flow/efficiency that us 4banger modifiers are really looking for. They're everywhere and a rebuild makes them new. Nevertheless, at least you paid a good price for a new turbo that will reach your goal and will bolt on.

 

[kahl23]

Every Turbonetics turbo I've ever rebuilt had the AiResearch "A" cast into the housing, telling me they're using Garrett center housings.

What's the difference?

How do you explain that when AGP went from Garrett parts in the RS49 to turbonetics parts in the RS49T the failure rate skyrocketed?

 

[UGOT8UP]

Just curious. You got it from your local shop with a bolton housing, right? Just to clarify, they don't come 'stock' with a bolton housing. Here's one with a bolton housing for $949 you probably saw. Your shop gan get you an hx35 with THAT turbine housing, right? Sorry if you already new this. Just making sure.

Nitrous will make your goal easier to attain for sure. But guys with less turbo have reached that goal. Several of us have reached into the VERY low 11s with stock manifolds. You will definately reach your goal of 450whp without nitrous. The question is will 4050whp with a full weight 1g able to reach the 10s consistantly (aside from one glory run where everything just goes together). I suggest a smim upgrade to insure the 10s.

And I agree. Garrett, Holset, MHI, BW, IHI, whatever: aside from the price, I see no difference in a good turbo core and a good rebuild vs. a new turbo. Bent fins which are bent back straight does not qualify as a good core to me and good cores are plentiful enough not to mess with something like that. Diesel forum classifieds are a great source. The great thing about holset is that the common OEM sizes used on literally millions of trucks/equipment are the size/flow/efficiency that us 4banger modifiers are really looking for. They're everywhere and a rebuild makes them new. Nevertheless, at least you paid a good price for a new turbo that will reach your goal and will bolt on.

I told him what turbo it was and that it was a "bolt on DSM housing" he looked it up and found the DSM version but he could not beat the price on it but come close, so I paid an extra $25 to the person I've been business with for a long time to help keep his door's open vs saving a tiny bit of cash to somebody I don't even know.


What is a safe NOS shot with the 25psi? no more than 50hp jets? and with the ECMlink can I control where I want the NOS to activate and deactivate, I forgot and I broke my laptop today fell outa my hand's when I was unplugging it to bring it inside to charge it.

Thank's DSM-onster

If you know of any Deere turbo's that would work good on these lemme know what they are and I will get some prices up. My cost on a Variable vane, ball bearing water cooled Deere-Garrett is $1,500 so I would imanage the smaller stuff would be less than $500

Basically, I like to read threads and reply occasionally. I enjoy assisting DSMers when I can, as well as providing links to places where folks can find brand-name parts for less. I also rebuild turbochargers for my fellow DSMers at unbeatable prices.

What's your deal?

I'm a basic Joe who build's nice reliable car's with out cutting corners or doing thing's twice who dosen't mind paying retail for new or freshly rebuilt part's that will last.

It's dicks like you who make me wish I never bought this car, but for every dick like you there are 5 realy good people behind them who take up there slack and give very good information about good product's and not being a smart ass who give's link's to overpriced garbage on ebay to save a few dollars only to send it to have it rebuilt shortly afterwards b/c it's junk!

LMFAO all Turbonetics use Garrett centers....how many have you built 0 or 1???

 

[1gDSM4g63]

First you need to get higher flowing fuel injectors and only boosting 25 psi is not going to get you to 450whp. You'll need to boost high 20s or 30 to get 450whp+ and with that much power you should be able to hit the high 10s without NOS depend on your driving abilities.

 

[Sam@RRE]

and if the tranny stays in one piece.

 

[UGOT8UP]

So a 30ish psi tune will get me there, I allready know a that the injectors aren't enough for the turbo, I plan on some 1250's, Yes it's a tad big but who know's what else I might do in the future.

I think the trannie should be good for that HP, it's a Dogbox racing double syncro 2nd with the upgraded gear set and a welded center diff, I was more concered with the axles, driveshaft and the rear diff.

and if the tranny stays in one piece.

What up RRE, you helped me with Lancer Rallie Art I built with your turbo kit a few year's ago.

 

[JusMX141]

It's dicks like you who make me wish I never bought this car, but for every dick like you there are 5 realy good people behind them who take up there slack and give very good information about good product's and not being a smart ass who give's link's to overpriced garbage on ebay to save a few dollars only to send it to have it rebuilt shortly afterwards b/c it's junk!

How is a brand-new Genuine Holset HX40 shipped in a Cummins box for $469 overpriced? I'd say $950 for a HX35 is overpriced given the failure rate of guys running used Holsets these days. If that's your attitude, how about I buy one of those HX40's for $469, throw a $200 Bullseye housing of your choice on it, and sell it to you for $950. Interested?

LMFAO all Turbonetics use Garrett centers....how many have you built 0 or 1???

Hold that thought.....I'll have some interesting pics for you tomorrow.

 

[UGOT8UP]

The HX40 is a good deal but that is not what I am looking for...HX35 is what I want and the one that you showed me was a F*&%#@ up one for alot of money concerding what it was........And please do show me some orignal T-netics Garrett's, if they are the orignal's than they where light year's ahead of the T-nenics center's as far as duribalty, I love the T-netics turbos I've bought 3 for my Buick and 2 for my twin SBC project all of wich where the best I could buy at the time for my rides, the only problem with them is premature falure, the Buick is unforgiving on turbo's due to the design of the system, 2 years was the longest one of them lasted, my twin ate them up after a season of racing, seal's are worn on those but they do not offer the replacment part's for them so I got pissed and ordered some Garrett's up, so far there still going good but there not as strong....I'm not saying T-netics does not make turbo's with Garrett center's they do but they are not what is considered a true T-netics they are the bottom of the line one's

---How is a brand-new Genuine Holset HX40 shipped in a Cummins box for $469 overpriced? I'd say $950 for a HX35 is overpriced given the failure rate of guys running used Holsets these days. If that's your attitude, how about I buy one of those HX40's for $469, throw a $200 Bullseye housing of your choice on it, and sell it to you for $950. Interested?---jusmx141

Yes I would be interested in it if you were like my supplier, helping me get my car's tuned staying up late letting me get my tuning done on your dyno until 3a.m. on a regular basis for free to get ready for the track.....$975 for a turbo to get me in the 10's is a GREAT deal IMO

 

[JusMX141]

And please do show me some orignal T-netics Garrett's, if they are the orignal's than they where light year's ahead of the T-nenics center's as far as duribalty, I love the T-netics turbos I've bought 3 for my Buick and 2 for my twin SBC project all of wich where the best I could buy at the time for my rides, the only problem with them is premature falure, the Buick is unforgiving on turbo's due to the design of the system, 2 years was the longest one of them lasted, my twin ate them up after a season of racing, seal's are worn on those but they do not offer the replacment part's for them so I got pissed and ordered some Garrett's up, so far there still going good but there not as strong....I'm not saying T-netics does not make turbo's with Garrett center's they do but they are not what is considered a true T-netics they are the bottom of the line one's

I'll do you one better....I have a SBR G50 at my shop, made by Turbonetics, using a Garrett CHRA. The wheels are hosed- I bought it a while ago for parts. I'm not sure it has actual Garrett internals, but the center housing itself is made by Garrett. Talk about a relabeling nightmare on Garrett's behalf!

What were the common Turbonetics or Garrett-spec turbos used on your Buicks (size-wise)? It always seemed like Buick guys liked Precision turbos, and seemed to rave about the SC3255E's which have horrible reliability traits among DSMers.

You'll probably have to wait and see what oil supply hole size your HX35 has when it arrives. I've seen 1/8" NPT, 1/4" NPT, and 12mm x 1.5 all used on Holset CHRA's that have passed through my shop. The NPT oil line hardware can be bought at your local hardware store....if it's the 12mm x 1.5 hole, Extreme PSI has a hell of a deal on a -4an line and all appropriate fittings:

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Oil Feedline Kit (Head Location): Mitsubishi Eclipse 90-99

You can either feed full-flow from the head or restricted from the filter housing....full-flow from the filter housing seems like a bad idea for Holsets, although some have done it and gotten away with it.

Yes I would be interested in it if you were like my supplier, helping me get my car's tuned staying up late letting me get my tuning done on your dyno until 3a.m. on a regular basis for free to get ready for the track.....$975 for a turbo to get me in the 10's is a GREAT deal IMO

You just don't live close enough to PA. What you've described is basically every evening in the summer at my shop with my local buddies and my Maryland crew....only I don't have a dyno- I've found that Business Route 66 around 1am or 2am works very well for tuning.

You let me make $300 profit on a new turbo sale that I don't have to disassemble and rebuild, and my shop is yours anytime you want to stop by . I've been in business 5 years and I've NEVER touched a profit like that on a single turbochager sale. Maybe if I sold 8 or 10 of the same one....

 

[insanebum]

hey UGOT8UP, do you know about how much horsepower you have with your current setup?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

hey UGOT8UP, do you know about how much horsepower you have with your current setup?

Yeah, with a big 16g 400-450hp is capable.

 

[UGOT8UP]

I'll do you one better....I have a SBR G50 at my shop, made by Turbonetics, using a Garrett CHRA. The wheels are hosed- I bought it a while ago for parts. I'm not sure it has actual Garrett internals, but the center housing itself is made by Garrett. Talk about a relabeling nightmare on Garrett's behalf!

What were the common Turbonetics or Garrett-spec turbos used on your Buicks (size-wise)? It always seemed like Buick guys liked Precision turbos, and seemed to rave about the SC3255E's which have horrible reliability traits among DSMers.

You'll probably have to wait and see what oil supply hole size your HX35 has when it arrives. I've seen 1/8" NPT, 1/4" NPT, and 12mm x 1.5 all used on Holset CHRA's that have passed through my shop. The NPT oil line hardware can be bought at your local hardware store....if it's the 12mm x 1.5 hole, Extreme PSI has a hell of a deal on a -4an line and all appropriate fittings:

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Oil Feedline Kit (Head Location): Mitsubishi Eclipse 90-99

You can either feed full-flow from the head or restricted from the filter housing....full-flow from the filter housing seems like a bad idea for Holsets, although some have done it and gotten away with it.



You just don't live close enough to PA. What you've described is basically every evening in the summer at my shop with my local buddies and my Maryland crew....only I don't have a dyno- I've found that Business Route 66 around 1am or 2am works very well for tuning.

You let me make $300 profit on a new turbo sale that I don't have to disassemble and rebuild, and my shop is yours anytime you want to stop by . I've been in business 5 years and I've NEVER touched a profit like that on a single turbochager sale. Maybe if I sold 8 or 10 of the same one....

I don't think he is making that much money off of me, even he is new to DSM's he might be getting it from Tim's Turbo for all I know???

My latest T-netics is a .72 I'm not sure on the series though I'll have to go digging through my recept's wich is gonna SUCK I think im at $45,000 now with all the rebuild's, the turbo before that one was a .60 T-netics stage III Cheeta series with the TB mount's made on it...the one's I used on my SBC where the GT-X series I dont remember the size though they weren't huge though maybe .50 or .57

I'm doing some research on the Holset's and I think I'm gonna need a oil restricter or a -3 line? due to oil pressure, I still got the BC and oil squirter's,,,I'll do some more reading on that to see if I'm correct though.

Thank's for the GREAT post bro A+++

hey UGOT8UP, do you know about how much horsepower you have with your current setup?

I have no clue, the dyno here is a 2wd but guessing from the 119 trap id say 400ish.

 

[toofast82]

I have no clue, the dyno here is a 2wd but guessing from the 119 trap id say 400ish.

Im curious about the 11.9 run. How much boost/timing/airfuel were you running? Have you given any thought about getting bigger injectors and running e85 and pushing the evo3 to the limit? You may not get 10s but there is possibly some time to be gained with a higher boost and more aggressive tune.

 

[UGOT8UP]

Im curious about the 11.9 run. How much boost/timing/airfuel were you running? Have you given any thought about getting bigger injectors and running e85 and pushing the evo3 to the limit? You may not get 10s but there is possibly some time to be gained with a higher boost and more aggressive tune.

I'm gonna guess and say 27psi/15*@4k/11.4 with some knock on that pass as I was using 93 swill in the tank. I'm thinking that is pushing that baby turbo to it's limits. The closest E85 pump is in Tallahassee FL about 70 miles away , and I have allready ordered the Holset , I would like to see a E316G throw down some low 11 sec passes I think that would be cool as hell and a total sleeper, I'm sure I can get some better number's with it, I had some small leak's in the charge line's and a small exaust leak but I don't want to kill that little bugger I'm gonna put it on my 2g GST auto and see what It can do

 

[mountaineerjeff]

well like most people, it seems like your just trying to buy really big stuff to make you go fast. the 16g has been proven to get 500hp. the injectors you are looking into are large, like you said. I personally think that you could just use some better tuning and make sure you can support your 16g a bit better. better manifolds, fix all boost leaks. I dont know though, its just Ive seen alot of people try to strap alot of big go fast stuff on their car, and not get it all to work together. If you already ordered the turbo, then make sure you get appropriate injectors, its hard to try and drop down the flow of your injectors, you get drivability issues and such.
HP and 1/4 are not directly related. as you know there is alot more involved then power to get into the 10s. lose some weight, try out a puck clutch,(despite driveability issues, you have to compromise to go fast)
I dont know what you know, or your exact situation, Im just throwing in my 2 cents

 

[UGOT8UP]

well like most people, it seems like your just trying to buy really big stuff to make you go fast. the 16g has been proven to get 500hp. the injectors you are looking into are large, like you said. I personally think that you could just use some better tuning and make sure you can support your 16g a bit better. better manifolds, fix all boost leaks. I dont know though, its just Ive seen alot of people try to strap alot of big go fast stuff on their car, and not get it all to work together. If you already ordered the turbo, then make sure you get appropriate injectors, its hard to try and drop down the flow of your injectors, you get drivability issues and such.
HP and 1/4 are not directly related. as you know there is alot more involved then power to get into the 10s. lose some weight, try out a puck clutch,(despite driveability issues, you have to compromise to go fast)
I dont know what you know, or your exact situation, Im just throwing in my 2 cents

Yes a 16g can go fast but it won't long at all GARANTED!!! I'm going to build a fast reliable car that I can drive safley everyday go straight from the street to the track and bust a high 10, consistant 11's, I know I can make this car run mid 11's with the 16g with a better tune(wich will come in time is I'm still learning the sweet spot's of the 4G63) but It will not hit my goal's for a high 10.

And by me replacing the part's on this car I can swap them over to my stock GST so it is a win-win

HP and the 1320 go hand and hand bro. I think you can mesure HP better on the track than a Dyno, to easy 3,000# car 120MPH trap, Dyno's are way off from machine to machine-I put down 768WHP on my Buick at the local place went to a Buick event where they had a dyno challange going on so I entered it and I threw down 823WHP WTF and it was at a higher alt. What is not related would be the ET side of racing that has alot to do with setup track prep driving skill so on and so forth.

as far as the puck clutch nah I'd rather use my street disk wich will get me better 60' time's and overall better ET, and I'm NOT gutting a mint 90 Talon, that is the only reson I bought this car

Thank's for your imput bro...what size injector's you think I will need, I was told the ECMlink will make 1600cc injector's purr like a kitten, I was goin for the 1200cc just incase I wanted to use the NOS, or if future mod's might include a even bigger turbo.

 

[dsm-onster]

well like most people, it seems like your just trying to buy really big stuff to make you go fast. the 16g has been proven to get 500hp.

Curt Brown is a incredible builder . Better than anyone else I've heard of so far.

Richard, I'd lay off Justin a little. He's not giving you information that won't help. I'm running a Holset with 200K on it. And boosting the he!! out of it. A rebuild by a GOOD rebuilder and a used holset plus the bolton housing cost about $300 less than what you paid. All turbos are used after you install them. I'm not getting on your case for buying a new turbo, at all. But he was just giving you another option.

I think he did get a little upset by the garrett comment. And you certainly have a right to your opinion. There are clearly 2 camps on the subject. . .

Regardless, you will be very happy with your choice. It will reach your goal easily an remain reliable for as long as you as for that level. Definately a better path to take if you want a more reliable option to yield your goal if you plan on driving this setup for more than a month. Smart decision. And, there are several upgrade options to net much more power with this turbo ( if you were able to get the 7blade hx35). Keep us updated. And take Justin's information to heart. He knows his way around turbos.

 

[UGOT8UP]

Curt Brown is a incredible builder . Better than anyone else I've heard of so far.

Richard, I'd lay off Justin a little. He's not giving you information that won't help. I'm running a Holset with 200K on it. And boosting the he!! out of it. A rebuild by a GOOD rebuilder and a used holset plus the bolton housing cost about $300 less than what you paid. All turbos are used after you install them. I'm not getting on your case for buying a new turbo, at all. But he was just giving you another option.

I think he did get a little upset by the garrett comment. And you certainly have a right to your opinion. There are clearly 2 camps on the subject. . .

Regardless, you will be very happy with your choice. It will reach your goal easily an remain reliable for as long as you as for that level. Definately a better path to take if you want a more reliable option to yield your goal if you plan on driving this setup for more than a month. Smart decision. And, there are several upgrade options to net much more power with this turbo ( if you were able to get the 7blade hx35). Keep us updated. And take Justin's information to heart. He knows his way around turbos.

He seem's to know his stuff pretty well, what got to me is the commet that he made about me not even reading my own post.. kinda got me worked up there..I'd rather buy a new turbo than a used one, yes it is used when I install it, but when I do install it I know that the blades are good, it has clean oil ran through it and the seal's are at 100%. piece of mind is worth the extra bux to me

I'm not sure if it's a 7 blade or not he didn't say and I dind't ask, I'll find out soon enough though.

I just wish I could get some more money for this project, but money is getting low and the wife is bitching, so I'm gona have to run the Holset with no manifold's for now

 

[Wicked_Sick]

We all need more money.

Glad to see you went with the holset.

Used rebuilt holsets seem to run just as long as brand new ones, which can be rebuilt someday too. 200k+ miles on them shows how reliable they are.

 

[UGOT8UP]

I'm thinking the Holset is gonna be good.

I've never owned a reliable turbo though, but I run mine to the MAX so I can't complain to much about that, I just like to get part's for them when they do crash!!

Just a few more thing's to get than I'll have one hell of a DSM I think..

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Look what I found

 

[dsm-onster]

HX35 52lb/min 8blade. Here's the compressor map:

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The lb/min are on the top of the graph. Over 70% efficienct at 50lb/min AND 42psi.

 

[UGOT8UP]

your my hero dsm-onster