Turbo Selection - FP Big T28 or EVO III 16G

[siceclipse]

i will admit that the T-28 is a very quick spooling turbo, but i've also seen the DSMlink logs that the origianal owner of my 16G sent me. It spooled at about 3200. Now thats DAMN quick!

So i dont think we (should) argue about spool characteristics of the two.

 

[DGajre777]

Maybe ~50hp isn't worth a turbo swap to you.

Well, that settles it the power part. With the FP Big T28 and nitrous, I'm looking at the same power as a EVO III. Now about the 0-60 time.

From what I understand, if there were 2 cars, both 2G AWD 5 speed, one with a FP Big T28 (no nitrous) and one with a EVO III 16G, both with aftermarket cams, running on pump gas, the T28s won't be able to kick the EVO III 16G's a$$ in the 0-60 instead the EVO III 16Gs power will take over the T28's "very quick" spool up - right? Since both are AWD, I don't think traction should be an issue.

And with one drag stip 3 hours away from me and another one 4 hours away, I might be going there less than once a month.

 

[ShapeGSX]

First of all, yes, traction is still an issue with AWD cars. It is the difference between a 1.8 and a 1.6 60-ft time, and that can be huge when it comes to E/T.

A high 12 or low 13 second AWD car has no problems with traction. But once you add another 100hp and a ton more torque right at your launch RPM, you have to really start worrying about it. I didn't think traction would ever be an issue, either. Every launch when I was running low 13s was the same. Around 1.72 60-ft. Not so anymore. I really have to concentrate on launching. I've had horrible 2.4 60-ft times, which can probably be attributed to how quickly the turbo spools at my launch RPM.

When I launch at 4750RPMs, I have instant boost. There is no lag at all. None. So the T28 has NO spoolup advantage for drag racing. The Evo III 16G car would probably be out in front from the get-go.

 

[Bigglesworth87]

If I may, I will chime in with this. I decided to go the t28 over the E3 simply because my local police are cracking down on modified cars. I have taken the time to camouflage everything under the hood (except for the air filter but I'm working on that) so by going the t28 route I am going to be keeping the stock appearance. If I didn't have to worry about that then I would go E3 or bigger. Just thought I would pitch that too you for another thing to think about other then power. If this is of no concern then disregard anything I just said.

 

[DGajre777]

First of all, yes, traction is still an issue with AWD cars. It is the difference between a 1.8 and a 1.6 60-ft time, and that can be huge when it comes to E/T.

A high 12 or low 13 second AWD car has no problems with traction. But once you add another 100hp and a ton more torque right at your launch RPM, you have to really start worrying about it. I didn't think traction would ever be an issue, either. Every launch when I was running low 13s was the same. Around 1.72 60-ft. Not so anymore. I really have to concentrate on launching. I've had horrible 2.4 60-ft times, which can probably be attributed to how quickly the turbo spools at my launch RPM.

Interesting. I never thought AWDs could have issues with traction. Not as bad as FWDs I guess.

When I launch at 4750RPMs, I have instant boost. There is no lag at all. None. So the T28 has NO spoolup advantage for drag racing. The Evo III 16G car would probably be out in front from the get-go.

All right! EVO III 16G it is! Thank you!

Oh and I'm in Florida, no worries about law enforcement and modifying cars here.

 

[Tom N]

I wish awd`s didnt have traction problems.
Lag is meaningless when starting from 0mph.
I could build 25lbs of boost at the line with a 60-1.
So the evo316g would still kick the T28`s a$$ 0-60.

 

[azonic]

I generally get about a 1.7 60' boost launching with DSMlink. I only leave the line at around 5-10lbs but I'm guessing it helps a bit. Now I'm wondering how my car would run with a 16G on it instead of the T28. Only would need about 40-50hp to maybe hit an 11.xx

 

[Tom N]

The evo316g is going to make more power.
Is just that simple.

 

[RedRex02]

The evo316g is going to make more power.
Is just that simple.

But how much power are we talking here? IS it worth selling a T28, buying the install kit etc?

 

[ShapeGSX]

But how much power are we talking here? IS it worth selling a T28, buying the install kit etc?

50hp
50hp
50hp
50hp

Or more.



I can't tell you if it is worth it to you or not.

And really, there isn't much to the "install kit." It is basically just the manifold to turbo gasket, an oil line and a compressor outlet pipe.

 

[Generation X]

FWIW... I run a FP ported Big28, HKS 264/272 cams, and a Zex wet 75 shot at 22psi while spraying on pump gas with no problems what so ever. I have went through about 5 bottles now in the past year and a half.

I have no shaft play at all in my turbo, and it now has about 10,000 miles on it. In the 1/8 I have trapped at 87mph off the bottle running pump gas, while trapping around 93mph on pump gas and a 75 shot spinning like a mofo.

From a street racing point of view, I just raced a 99 Trans-am WS6 with Ram-Air, ls6 intake, headers, port and polished heads, cam, and a slp loudmouth exhaust, and busted his ass by two car lengths several times in a row, from a 40 roll to about 120mph. He told me he dynoed @ 390 whp, so that's around 465 crank hp.

My next turbo upgrade will be a 50 trim variant for sure! I just don't see any reason to go from a FP B28, or Big 16g, to an Evo III turbo when there are 50 trims out there for just a few hundred dollars more, and not to mention you don't have to worry about race gas for 115mph traps.

 

[Caithness]

Have you had any problems with boost spiking on the bottle? Boost creep doesn't worry me much, but a spike when the nitrous hits does worry me.

 

[Generation X]

I'm actually running about 20psi, and when I spray it goes to about 22psi. Also.. I'm getting about 17 to 18 degrees of timing at the top of third gear on spray, while running pump gas according to my logger.

The car is very strong, but I don't go around spraying everywhere I go either. I respect nitrous, because if done wrong it can cause some damage. I would love to run a 50 trim and some spray on a built motor, that would be a blast.

 

[jking29]

Sorry to hijack a post, but, I am currently building my 93 Laser and am going to be running sililar to you X. I am going to run a small 16g with a NOS nitrous 50 wet shot. I am wondering what you have your base timing set at and your base fuel pressure? I am not going to run the nitrous until after I street tune the motor to get into the ballpark. I will hit it with nitrous for the first time when I go to the dyno so I have a wideband on it to be safe until I find the best jets. Anything other advice you could give would be great. Thanks in advance.

 

[gsxtacy]

I can now say I have owned both of the turbos in question.

I went with the FP Big28 first because of the straight bolt-on capability, it was simple, effective. Can't say I was blown away by the FP big28, but it was fun.

What I can say about the EVO III is, it hits harder, it pulls harder, it sounds better spooling, it feels twice as fast at 15 psi, and it cost me $128.43 less to get the Turbochargers.com 2G solution kit, then the $843.90 for the FP Big28 shipped to my door.

I likey $128.43 and more performance

 

[spoold]

honestly, i JUST ditched my FP big28. I had all the mods to back it up, yet the car lacked anything i wanted.

Power came on suddelly, no kick was felt, the car felt like it died top end, and all in all ive been unimpressed by the t28

My mhi evo 16g should be here tomorow i cant wait!

notes:
t28 spooled fast as shit
t28 was sleeper, and was easy on install
t28 was slow feeling
t28 < mhi evo 16g

 

[Generation X]

Sorry to hijack a post, but, I am currently building my 93 Laser and am going to be running sililar to you X. I am going to run a small 16g with a NOS nitrous 50 wet shot. I am wondering what you have your base timing set at and your base fuel pressure? I am not going to run the nitrous until after I street tune the motor to get into the ballpark. I will hit it with nitrous for the first time when I go to the dyno so I have a wideband on it to be safe until I find the best jets. Anything other advice you could give would be great. Thanks in advance.

My base timing is stock, and my fuel pressure is at the stock 43.5 psi for a 2g. I do have an afpr but I have left it alone for now, since my timing is fine. I run a 75 wet shot, because the 55 shot just didn't do it for me. On just turbo and cams I've trapped @ 88mph in the 1/8 mile @ 20 psi on pump gas, and I have trapped @ 93 mph @ 22 psi on pump gas running a 75 shot spinning like a mad man. My runs were all at about 1500ft above sea-level as well.

 

[Generation X]

honestly, i JUST ditched my FP big28. I had all the mods to back it up, yet the car lacked anything i wanted.

Power came on suddelly, no kick was felt, the car felt like it died top end, and all in all ive been unimpressed by the t28

My mhi evo 16g should be here tomorow i cant wait!

notes:
t28 spooled fast as shit
t28 was sleeper, and was easy on install
t28 was slow feeling
t28 < mhi evo 16g

Well... according to your profile if you were just running 16psi then you weren't even even beginning to tap into the potential of the 28. It looks like you were running the T-28 killa as well. I don't see cams in your profile either, which will add even more topend. I gained about 2mph on the topend just by running the HKS 264/272 combo. Then theres a 1g tb, 1g intake manifold, and 1g head that you could swap to, for even more performance. With that being said, I don't think you have all the supporting mods that you think you have to run the 28 killa to it's fullest potential IMO. The EVO III 16g does flow a little more air, but not enough air to justify for me to just switch from a true Forced Performance ported B28 over to a EVO III 16g. Plus... to get that added air flow that the EVO III 16g offers over a FP B28, or T28 killa, your going to have to run race gas anyways to reap the benefits of the turbo. Whenever I swap turbos it's going to be a 50 trim variant or larger. I hate having to use race gas!!

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Well the Kill 28 has a big 16g compressor, so it won't make a big difference going from a T-28 Killa to a EVOIII 16g. Now if you go with a 50 trim or something like that, thats a different story.

 

[v2ner]

Well the Kill 28 has a big 16g compressor, so it won't make a big difference going from a T-28 Killa to a EVOIII 16g. Now if you go with a 50 trim or something like that, thats a different story.

I second this.....but even from an EVO III to a 50-trim isn't much of a jump either. And yes, I have maxed them out pretty much (27psi).

 

[spoold]

Well... according to your profile if you were just running 16psi then you weren't even even beginning to tap into the potential of the 28. It looks like you were running the T-28 killa as well. I don't see cams in your profile either, which will add even more topend. I gained about 2mph on the topend just by running the HKS 264/272 combo. Then theres a 1g tb, 1g intake manifold, and 1g head that you could swap to, for even more performance. With that being said, I don't think you have all the supporting mods that you think you have to run the 28 killa to it's fullest potential IMO. The EVO III 16g does flow a little more air, but not enough air to justify for me to just switch from a true Forced Performance ported B28 over to a EVO III 16g. Plus... to get that added air flow that the EVO III 16g offers over a FP B28, or T28 killa, your going to have to run race gas anyways to reap the benefits of the turbo. Whenever I swap turbos it's going to be a 50 trim variant or larger. I hate having to use race gas!!

16 psi on the street

21 on the track w/ race gas, and i still was pretty unhappy with the times. As per the cams, you are correct on that one. Its just not in my list of things to do yet

Anywho, the EVO just feels sstronger, but then again, its probably because my t28 had over 30xxx miles on it. That could very well be the reasoning as well.

 

[Generation X]

I second this.....but even from an EVO III to a 50-trim isn't much of a jump either. And yes, I have maxed them out pretty much (27psi).

There is quite a big difference bro. Theres no EVO III 16g going to come anywhere close to a FP Green performance wise, especially on pump gas. And... even on race gas a FP Green will blow it out of it's shell. Your talking about a 400 max hp potential turbo vs a 500 plus hp turbo. Theres no comparison.

 

[v2ner]

There is quite a big difference bro. Theres no EVO III 16g going to come anywhere close to a FP Green performance wise, especially on pump gas. And... even on race gas a FP Green will blow it out of it's shell. Your talking about a 400 max hp potential turbo vs a 500 plus hp turbo. Theres no comparison.

Since I owned both these turbos and had them in the same car I guess I should know what I am talking about. I say this because I now drive this car with a 35R....now that's what I call a jump. You can read up on info but nothing's like the real world experience. Don't get me wrong, Generation X, I got much respect for you.

 

[Generation X]

Since I owned both these turbos and had them in the same car I guess I should know what I am talking about. I say this because I now drive this car with a 35R....now that's what I call a jump. You can read up on info but nothing's like the real world experience. Don't get me wrong, Generation X, I got much respect for you.

Well hell yeah... a 35R is quite the jump bro! I appreciate your respect, as I respect you the same. Anyways... I'm just looking at it from a race gas point of view. I'm not a big fan of having to use race gas to get big numbers, especially since my car is mostly a street driven car. So with that being said IMO a 50 trim variant turbo is going to be a pretty good jump over a EVO III 16g on pump, or race gas, of course not like a 35R, but a big jump. Anyone can look at the times list over at http://www.dsmtimes.org/ to get a good idea as well.

 

[v2ner]

Well hell yeah... a 35R is quite the jump bro! I appreciate your respect, as I respect you the same. Anyways... I'm just looking at it from a race gas point of view. I'm not a big fan of having to use race gas to get big numbers, especially since my car is mostly a street driven car. So with that being said IMO a 50 trim variant turbo is going to be a pretty good jump over a EVO III 16g on pump, or race gas, of course not like a 35R, but a big jump. Anyone can look at the times list over at http://www.dsmtimes.org/ to get a good idea as well.

I understand, man. Yea...my car reeks of race gas and so do I.