Turbo Motor Without Turbo? can that cause damaging effects?

[shadow001dsm]

I have a 94 gs that had a turbo motor put in but they didnt bring the turbo with it when they did the swap they just bolted the stock gs stuff back on so i have the turbo pistons block and head, can that creat damaging problems to the motor without boost?

 

[Bud92gsx]

Idk, but I bet that's fun, a turbo motor without turbo...Isn't therel ike 2 humungus salvage yards in vegas?

Hey I bet you could find a manifold, 14b, and boost piping for probly 200$..

 

[dsmfreak1984]

HEY ANOTHER DSM'r IN VEGAS! WELCOME! agreed must be fun without the turbo
No but seriously though, check out nevada pick a part up on lamb blvd, last time I was there about a week ago there were tons of 1g dsm's a few with some nice 14b turbosand a couple clean looking 13g's. I think the manifold is $20ish and the turbos are $75. slap one of em on with some injecters and the turbo fuel pump and your set! but now that im done getting myself all excited it wont hurt anything to run a turbo engine without a turbo, it'll probably just feel like a dog cause of the lower compression. who did the swap? please tell me it was not sun auto, cause this sounds right up theyre alley

 

[Bud92gsx]

I guess theres salvage yards all over..Losie,Creig, Lake mead just to name a few..

 

[Spoolin18]

I doubt it would hurt anything, the thing I'm wonering is did they swap the ecu to nonturbo to?

 

[EVO]

Wont hurt anything, however with that low compression and lack of Boost, Injectors are TOO big and should be about as fast as a 50cc scooter downhill with a 20mph tailwind!

 

[EVO]

^ added, hope they are using the N/A ECU.

 

[shadow001dsm]

yeah its slow i can walk a 1/4 faster than my car, its best is a 17.22, and no they left the stock gs ecm in there, and they put the gs injectors on it, they only thing the took for from the swap is the block and head everything else is off the old motor. and i went to the lamb one on saterday before midnoght meyham and didnt find anything but other fw n/a talons and one laser and two eclipses, but i heard the one in henderson had a 14b, and a 16g there i was gonna check that out, and thanks for the welcome my fellow vegas dsmer. you meet up any where out here, the sonic meet is lame and no one realy is in to it.

 

[crimsondragon]

Wont hurt anything, however with that low compression and lack of Boost, Injectors are TOO big and should be about as fast as a 50cc scooter downhill with a 20mph tailwind!

Having big injectors has nothing to do with a car running bad if the ECU is controlling it right. It's just injectors that will never see it's duty used anywhere close to max. Now if it was say a turbo ECU with a N/T injectors or vice versa, then we would have a problem.

 

[EVO]

Having big injectors has nothing to do with a car running bad if the ECU is controlling it right. It's just injectors that will never see it's duty used anywhere close to max. Now if it was say a turbo ECU with a N/T injectors or vice versa, then we would have a problem.

I disagree! Only at Idle with a TURBO ECM would the AFR be acceptable. An NA ECM with Turbo injectors would run constantly rich, and then when pulling up to 0mhg of vaccuum it would give a lil more fuel adding to the already unburned petrol. A rich running car not only consumes too much fuel - Burning a hole in owners pocket it also kills HP, fouls plugs, fouls O2's, contributes to catalist failure (especially in OLD Cats!). So in fact it was wize of the installer to leave an NA ECM and install NA injectors! Yes it would run, but not as well as it should... MY 2 cents... Or actually he could spend more money and swap in a 2G MAF and intake pipe then perhaps the AFR's would be compliant! This however is redundant due to the OP's installed parts.
Also regardless of "duty cycles" - Base/Vaccuum fuel pressure, fueling map in the ECM and Injector pintle size is what determins the fuel output at any given "duty cyle" @ any RPM (beside the other obvious reference signals from MAF,MAP,CTS,CPS,IAT,etc...). So infact a 440cc verse a 370cc, 240cc, etc ...at 40psi BFP @ 50% duty @ 900RPM @ 500mhp the 440 consumes and sprays more fuel!! The ECM is not witty enough to compensate for the larger flow of the Injector and the engine cannot cram any more air into the engine atmospherically so It'll always run RICH! Perhaps at that rate the OP could invest in some Cummins or Powerstroke Badges and tell everyone the smokin tailpipe is from his new DIESEL engine swap!?
All in good fun.
Cheers.

 

[EVO]

^ Hell I forgot he has a turbo engine, Duh.... SO now its even Slower and burns too much fuel, more than previously mentioned. That is if it where NA ECU with Turbo Injectors, hell the static compression alone makes it a slushbox, add FAT injectors and quick accellerating Ignition timing and you have a 1970's Pinto with a steam engine swap!
Sorry OP I need 50 posts to list some of my DSM goodness in the Marketplace, so I'm halfway there and wasteing post's on gibberish like this... for me.

 

[shadow001dsm]

its true i have the turbo injectors and the n/a ecm, its got horrible gas milage and has bad spark knock i have had to completly retard the timing just to make it no pre detinate as bad with the way it was running before i did that, the spark knock would have destoryed my engine, i have had every tech in the shop with me help me to make the motor stable until i complete the swap, all i need is a little bit more money and time and i will be good, im just afraid that the spark knock it still has will be damaging, i pretty sure i am gonna have to get a gst engine harness just so i can get the knock sensor link, ### i got the sensor and no harness link.. blows like yesterdays diapers. when i got the car it was a real POS, i have sunk a lot in already, but i am very determined to make it a great car and i am getting close. i have numerouse people to tell me to ditch it. but i am a freak about my car and im not letting it go. im just gonna make it better.l

 

[rush2252]

how the hell are you even driving it NA? Like they stated above it should have about as much power as the hove around scooter

 

[shadow001dsm]

Not realy well i have had to swap out some things the make it run better.

 

[Dsmj89]

Start hitting ebay and the dsm classifieds for used 16g's. They are being had for cheap nowadays. While you're at it a set of injectors and fuel pump wouldn't hurt either, as well as a fmic, what better excuse than to mod it right ?

 

[shadow001dsm]

true, i already have a t25, but am looking for the 16g or the 14b, just got to go to pic a part today to find the fpr all the turbo pipin the intake manifold, etc. pain in the butt, but all worth it in the end.

 

[EVO]

Well stay resiliant and keep up the good work, it'll pay off in the end if ya dont cut corners and do your research first! Anyhow, pick-up some NA injectors and reset your base timing back to NA specs, the car will run alot better! Spark Knock (detonation) is the Number one destroyer of engines, if your allowing the overfueling and retarded timing to cause issues now - you may have an early demise once you toss that turbo on there. Detonation can cause cracking of the Valve seats, Valves faces, irregular Conn Rod bearing wear, crushed ring lands and small cracks or chips in and around the piston face... So do yourself and your engine a favor and get those Injectors OUT until you have all your Turbo parts together.

 

[shadow001dsm]

will do i got get to the scrap yard after im outta work

 

[crimsondragon]

I disagree! Only at Idle with a TURBO ECM would the AFR be acceptable.

If you mix it any way, the AFRs will still be off. Turbo ECU w/ NA injectors will make it run lean while NA ECU w/ turbo injectors will make it run rich. The ECU does not know what injectors you're running so it won't be able to compensate.

Also regardless of "duty cycles" - Base/Vaccuum fuel pressure, fueling map in the ECM and Injector pintle size is what determins the fuel output at any given "duty cyle" @ any RPM (beside the other obvious reference signals from MAF,MAP,CTS,CPS,IAT,etc...). So infact a 440cc verse a 370cc, 240cc, etc ...at 40psi BFP @ 50% duty @ 900RPM @ 500mhp the 440 consumes and sprays more fuel!!

I brought up duty cycle as a way to express why larger injectors on a NA is redundant. Yes I know controlling an AFPR can increase the fuel output of rated injectors and there are calculations for this. I have no idea why you went this far into expressing your knowledge.

The ECM is not witty enough to compensate for the larger flow of the Injector and the engine cannot cram any more air into the engine atmospherically so It'll always run RICH! Perhaps at that rate the OP could invest in some Cummins or Powerstroke Badges and tell everyone the smokin tailpipe is from his new DIESEL engine swap!?
All in good fun.
Cheers.

I'm pretty sure I indirectly said that in my first post with less jabber.

 

[shadow001dsm]

i suppose that would explain why it constantly stalls in open loop. to much fuel? and i checked all the scrap yards yesterday, not one of them had a turbo dsm anywhere

 

[dsmfreak1984]

So, myself and shadow001dsm met up last night for some random cruising cool dude, but I have to say that car is not that slow, the thing suprised the hell out of me, I dont know wha he has done to the engine in that thing but it moves! not too shabby for a turbo engine without a turbo. unfortunatly the night came to a catostrophic end with a massive clutch failure on his end. hope its nothing major.

 

[shadow001dsm]

OH THE DAMAGE IS VERY MAJOR!!!! haha the clutch and some external parts of the motor are done im hoping the tranny is fine, but yeah the motor is dont so.... no trouble though i already got a new one and ordered a t3t4 completed turbo kit and have other parts lined up for buying now its just a matter of time b4 its rebuilt. have fun keeping up haha, i walked you in first and second without a turbo imagine how it will go this time.

 

[dsmfreak1984]

lets call that one boost leaks no but seriously im looking forward to this build comming together I think its gonna be pretty sweet. way to turn a tradgety into an opportunity bro!

 

[kmj 4g63t]

So weird. I've only heard of a guy in my neighborhood who has a sr20det 180sx and his turbo blew and he went n/a. Guarenteed your new setup will be leaving nice little carrera4s behind !! good luck! and awesome paint job!!