Turbo/Exhaust/Creep/20+psi question

[CanadianTSi]

Thats exactly what I said...

 

[Chadillac2000]

I know, thanks I was referring more to the other guys, that said it would creep to exactly what it had been creeping too, thanks canadiantsi, ill keep you guys posted

 

[flinguist]

well to cut the creep down to under 20 would porting the divider away be useful, ive heard mixed opinions about how even though decreasing creep it also decreases flow?

I did that, and have no creep problems. It's supposed to hurt turbo efficiency though.

 

[oldman]

Alright nobody was really able to answer my question directly on here

I have decided not to be pushy on this thread but I will give it another shot since you seem desperate for an answer. IMO there are two effective ways of dealing with boost creep, porting and external wastgate. Many on this site had successfully solve creeping with just porting. My 16g used to creep to 25psi+, after porting the turbine housing PROPERLY (mainly the inlet), it was able to hold 14psi to redline in every gear and only boosting 1-2psi with the actuator arm off. I've also helped many in solving creep through porting. If you're interested in pursuing this route, post back and we can discuss further. If you read the thread I've provided earlier, you would see although he had multiple problems overlapping, at the end the porting did it's job. The problem with sbr's respones is that you most likely will creep much higher than 20psi if you're already creeping to 20psi with the cat. Good luck.

 

[Chadillac2000]

oldman, im not creeping right now with the cat at all in any gear, but i would feel safer i wouldnt creep at any psi with a test pipe on, and i would be very interested in you explaining exactly what you mean by porting PROPERLY on top of what slowboy already ported, thanks

 

[rowlex]

I think ive told you twice now.....if your car creeped BEFORE you put the catalytic converter on IT WILL creep when you take it off. You have done nothing to prevent creep(after you installed the cat) you simply added fuel support modifications. Visit Oldman's link he provided earlier, the pictures are enough to expain what he is talking about.

 

[Chadillac2000]

First off, the question never was will it creep when I take the cat back off, of course its going to creep i havent done anything to fix that, its just the higher boost you run the less exhaust runs through the wastegate

 

[oldman]

i would be very interested in you explaining exactly what you mean by porting PROPERLY on top of what slowboy already ported, thanks

What SBR and most $90 port job offered by vendor focuses on enlarging the inlet to increase flow and improve spool up. The main problem with boost creep is the entrance of the wastegate path in the turbine inlet. If you look straight down the turbo inlet you will see that the wastegate entrance is kinda hidden, exhaust will have to make a almost 90 degree turn to enter the wastegate. The key is to knock off as much material as possible on top of the wastegate entrance in order to expose the entrance so there's a direct path to it when the flapper opens. Without doing this, anything you do after that like O2 dump, external wastegate on O2 and your 34mm flapper will not be a guaranteed success. You also want to port the area behind the flapper to allow it to open more. If you've done this properly and you're still creeping, an external wastegate mounted on manifold like what rowlex showed you would be the only thing left to do. Good luck.

 

[rowlex]

it wasnt?

i was wondering i put my test pipe back on (which i heard will net a noticeable gain) will i get the same creep again

 

[Chadillac2000]

that was part of the question, but the majority of it was will simply turning up the boost to 21 or so psi cure the problem, but thanks oldman i guess ill try the porting to ensure no creep

 

[TargeT]

that was part of the question, but the majority of it was will simply turning up the boost to 21 or so psi cure the problem, but thanks oldman i guess ill try the porting to ensure no creep

Turning the boost up to cure boost creep is a bandaid (if it evendoes anything, you might just creep higher..)

Old man is dead on.. port the crap outta that stuff, give the exhaust a clear path to the flapper & you'll be good.

btw OLDMAN! clear out your PM box, i'm tryin to ask you about the new turbo you got!!!

 

[oldman]

btw OLDMAN! clear out your PM box

Done.

 

[Chadillac2000]

I'm droppin the turbo out tomorrow, i understand what to port on the inlet side of the turbo just not exactly sure what you guys mean about porting so the flapper can open completely but not enough to break the seal, does anybody have any pictures, that would help the most

 

[oldman]

I'm droppin the turbo out tomorrow, i understand what to port on the inlet side of the turbo just not exactly sure what you guys mean about porting so the flapper can open completely but not enough to break the seal, does anybody have any pictures, that would help the most

Once you have it out, open the flapper and you will see that the lever that holds the flapper makes contact with the path wall preventing it from opening all the way. Knock off some material behind the lever to allow the flapper to open till it's parallel to the flow. Keep in mind while you do this that you want the flanges to mate as perfectly as possible so take off just enough and not more. Since you've decided to do this, I would like to remind you again that the key is in the inlet. Have fun.

 

[Chadillac2000]

Yeah i've really researched about porting the inlet and I think I know what i need to do there, sorry i didnt listen to you earlier OLDMAN i appreciate all the help, i think im going to follow this picture on what do as far as porting the inlet

 

[oldman]

Yes, I think you got the point on the inlet. Follow that pic on the inlet and read up on the rest here , I didn't want to give the link before because the article didn't discuss porting the inlet specifically for creeping purposes. Do a test run with the actuator arm off and see how much pressure you are able to build before you take the turbo out. I was able to build about 7psi @6k before the port job and 1psi @ 6k after. If you can achieve something similar to that, removing the cat should not be a problem. Happy porting and post back results.

 

[oldman]

Right across from the cooling fan, the empty part of the lower heat shield, you will see a rod (actuator arm) extended from the actuator and connects to a lever which opens and shuts the wastegate door (flapper). Remove the cotterpin that holds the rod to the lever and pull the rod off. Test run with the lever just hanging there so it can open freely.

 

[LessIsMore]

If you have a 34mm flapper the area behind the flapper should already be ported along with the wastegate hole.

Follow oldman's instructions, I was able to cure my creep problems this way on a 14b and 16g after much trial and error.

good luck

 

[Chadillac2000]

i do have a 34mm flapper so i guess i should just focus mainly on the inlet, is there anything else i should do while the turbo is pulled

 

[oldman]

i do have a 34mm flapper so i guess i should just focus mainly on the inlet, is there anything else i should do while the turbo is pulled

Sure, port match the manifold collector to your turbine and both to a 7cm gasket. If you choose to do this, I don't see any reason not to, make sure you measure the 7cm gasket and make sure it's 7cm before you proceed. As I found out through my last purchase, not all 7cm gaskets are made equal. I would also suggest not to assume the flapper area is already ported just because a 34mm mod was done on it. The key is to make sure the flapper opens to where it's parallel to flow, no more no less, to maximize flow and cut down the cross section for possible disturbance. All this might be confusing now but once you have it off, things will become more clear.

 

[Chadillac2000]

No i think i got it, port the inlet to make sure the air has a easy path to the wastegate, port behind the flapper in order to let it open up to parallel to let the most air pass through, and since the turbo will be dropped port both the inlet of the turbo and the exit of the exhaust manifold to 7cm, and as far as i can reach into the ex. mani, i appreciate it all guys, ill keep you updated, as long as i can bring the boost creep down to or around 20 ill be happy, thanks

 

[Chadillac2000]

Alright dropped the turbo today, what a biatch, took off my exhaust and have it all ready to just weld the test pipe right in there, ran into some bad news, had two of the turbo to exhaust manifold bolts seize up on me, and finally resorted to breaking them off, then when i tried to drill them out there was no chance, i guess im gonna have to take it to a machine shop tomorrow, but as far as slowboy's port job it was just as OLDMAN said, the air has to take an extreme 90 degree turn right into the wastegate opening, so i'm still in the process off porting that away to resemble the picture that i posted earlier, as far as the flapper the flapper already opens parallel although i'll probably port some more just in case, this would have been very smooth if it wasnt for the damn bolts seizing up, I really hope this cures the creep or controls it somewhat because there is no way I'm ever dropping the turbo out to do this, so im porting the ever living hell outta this stuff, oh and by the way my exhaust to turbo gasket is cracked too ill keep ya guys posted

 

[oldman]

Alright dropped the turbo today, what a biatch, took off my exhaust and have it all ready to just weld the test pipe right in there, ran into some bad news, had two of the turbo to exhaust manifold bolts seize up on me, and finally resorted to breaking them off, then when i tried to drill them out there was no chance, i guess im gonna have to take it to a machine shop tomorrow, ,

Anti-seize on the re-install, don't make the same mistake twice.

but as far as slowboy's port job it was just as OLDMAN said, the air has to take an extreme 90 degree turn right into the wastegate opening

I'm not saying Slowboy did a bad job, I'm saying most of the time when vendors say "port job", they're not talking about boost creep.

I really hope this cures the creep or controls it somewhat

I have put my reputation on the line here. I ask that you post pictures of the turbo before you call it complete, let's make sure it's done right.

 

[LessIsMore]

I'm not saying Slowboy did a bad job, I'm saying most of the time when vendors say "port job", they're not talking about boost creep.

I agree, I had my turbo ported by Slowboy when I bought it. It was a good port job for the price though its not enough to fend off boost creep. I was still creeping to ~20psi by 6000rpm with 34mm flapper.

Another tip is to spend some time porting the wastegate exit chamber. There is a Vfaq that does a good job of explaining how this is done.

 

[Chadillac2000]

I'll post up some pics tonight old man, does anybody have a picture of what the wastegate exit should look like as with every comment i get a lil more confused about this part of the port job..