Tubular Manifold performance question..

[Wobble]

My stock 2g manifold (ported and whatnot) has a crack in it, not a bad one but enough for it to tick when the car is cold.. I was wondering how much of a gain these tubular manifolds give ya, i would ratehr upgrade than replace anyday so i figured that may be the next step..

I only have a ported 16g, 1g head, exhaust intake.. yadda yadda the usual stuff... right now but plan on upgrading to a mutt or 20g (cant decide yet) within a year (less actually) so i want as much flow as possable..

another question.. do they change the sound of the car any? some people say they make the car sound different, others say they dont, others say only under heavy throttle.. so i H ave no idea.. its not a HUGE concern.. more of a curiosity..

anywho, ive seen them upwards of 700 bux and as log was 150ish (pace setter )

but i want sometyhing pretty good, but not outragious...

any ideas..?

 

[Groomz]

The Smithoid eclipse put down 600whp with a ported 2G manifold, so I think that the tubular ones may be a little overrated. For sure they help with spoolup, but the added head introduced into the engine bay could be a problem ( unless you drop some coin to have in coated ). I would say go for an Evo III manifold fully ported. That should be good for most power and spool needs and you can still run your stock heatshields. If you must have the bling, I would go DNP. Alien Auto also has some excellent tubular goodies.

www.dnperformance.com
www.alienauto.com

 

[Wobble]

Well turbo performance sells a equal lenght tubular for $375ish, seems like a nice peace and a good price..

 

[aero_sallee]

I dont have any personal experience with tubular manifolds but there is a thread/group buy for a tubular manifold over there. They do have some test information, pictures, and a video, here is the link SS Autochrome Tubular Manifold Group Buy/ Information

hope you find that useful

 

[Wobble]

couldent find a video, lot of pages to look through though.. yikes

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Originally posted by aero_sallee
I dont have any personal experience with tubular manifolds but there is a thread/group buy for a tubular manifold over there. They do have some test information, pictures, and a video, here is the link SS Autochrome Tubular Manifold Group Buy/ Information

hope you find that useful

I was in that Group Buy until I recieved mine and it had the wrong flange on it for Mitsu turbo's. The inside of the flange is square like the T3/T4 variety. They have 30 of them made, however incorrectly. Besides the flange, the build quality seems top notch. All of the runners have supports on both edges and the SS thickness is around 2.7mm. Once they get the flange right, I could see buying one..

 

[gritsak]

those SSautochrome manifolds are shit, at least the ones the made from hondas. they would crack within weeks or days if you didnt add extra braces to support the turbo, and even then they would still crack. not to mention the horrible wastegate placement they had that caused serious boost creep problems..the quality did look decent but they just didnt hold up..unless they have made some changes to the making and or design, i cant see them being much better for dsms either

unfortunately the saying you get what you pay for seems like it fits pretty well with manifolds...you might also check out the south florida performance manifold. they arent as bling as the SS manifolds but they work great.

 

[Wobble]

south florida performances manifolds cost more than turbo performance's manifolds, and they are not even equal length runners.....

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Originally posted by gritsak
those SSautochrome manifolds are shit, at least the ones the made from hondas. they would crack within weeks or days if you didnt add extra braces to support the turbo, and even then they would still crack. not to mention the horrible wastegate placement they had that caused serious boost creep problems..the quality did look decent but they just didnt hold up..unless they have made some changes to the making and or design, i cant see them being much better for dsms either

unfortunately the saying you get what you pay for seems like it fits pretty well with manifolds...you might also check out the south florida performance manifold. they arent as bling as the SS manifolds but they work great.

Well, it seems that the DNP is the best tubular manifold out there right now. Whether it warrants a 500 dollar price tag is a different story...

 

[MNGSX]

Everything I have learned about turbocharged engine exhuast systems tells me that an equal length manifold is'nt that big of a deal. Near equal length or just alot closer to equal length than stock but with minimal bends and runner length is far more effective than some long equal length manifold. Less exhaust velocity is lost due to the more direct path. Equal length headers on NA engines is helpful in exhaust scavenging. When you put a turbine on the end the whole game changes.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Originally posted by MNGSX
Everything I have learned about turbocharged engine exhuast systems tells me that an equal length manifold is'nt that big of a deal. Near equal length or just alot closer to equal length than stock but with minimal bends and runner length is far more effective than some long equal length manifold. Less exhaust velocity is lost due to the more direct path. Equal length headers on NA engines is helpful in exhaust scavenging. When you put a turbine on the end the whole game changes.

I would have to agree since the stocker has unequal length runners and people have been throwing 5 hundo to the rubber with it as previously stated..

 

[gritsak]

Originally posted by Wobble
south florida performances manifolds cost more than turbo performance's manifolds, and they are not even equal length runners.....

with your setup i highly doubt that you are going to see any huge benifits from a equal length manifold...i know of 9sec. race cars with log manifolds...the whole equal length is a little overrated i think...ide rather have a manifold that has a full warrenty, works awsome, fits perfect then one that is prone to cracking, looks "cool" and might make my car spoolup 200rpms quicker.

 

[jake98gst]

Originally posted by gritsak
... and might make my car spoolup 200rpms quicker.

One guy quoted that his spool up time decreased by 600 rpms. That spools a 50 trim in the time it would normally take to spool a 16g. That's nothing to sneeze at. I, therefore, am very interested in an equal length tubular mani.

 

[gritsak]

Originally posted by jake98gst
One guy quoted that his spool up time decreased by 600 rpms. That spools a 50 trim in the time it would normally take to spool a 16g. That's nothing to sneeze at. I, therefore, am very interested in an equal length tubular mani.

since "one guy" said that, then it must be...and im not comparing a stock manifold to an equal length..im refering to his comment out the SFP manifold which is barely not equal length.

and what turbo was this 600rpm gain on..was any other mods changed at the time? was it tuned differently? theres alot more ways then just slapping on a manifold that you can cut down spoolup time

 

[Groomz]

When it comes to internet opinion, be very careful. People can say that something did so and so, but its really hard to actually tell who knows what. Thats why I trust people who've done it before. If Smithey see's that only a ported stocker is enough for 600whp, then its good enough for my goals. Again, if bling is the thing, your money is going to go fast. A ported Evo III manifold with a ceramic coating is going to work very well, is proven, and isn't going to melt your timing belt cover. MnGSX really made a good point. 290$ for a fully ported Evo III, or 500$ for tubular that will really need a ceramic coating to not melt everything. Its not my money.

 

[jdmawd]

Good points. Also lets keep in mind that a 16G can run 11's and a 20G has gone in the 10's tens

 

[jake98gst]

Originally posted by Groomz
When it comes to internet opinion, be very careful. People can say that something did so and so, but its really hard to actually tell who knows what. Thats why I trust people who've done it before. If Smithey see's that only a ported stocker is enough for 600whp, then its good enough for my goals....

The only difference between your argument and mine is that you know the guy's name. I said "one guy." You said "Smithey." Who knows if this "Smithey" character knows more or has any more experience than my "one guy?" (I know who Smithey is, I'm making an example.)

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by jake98gst
The only difference between your argument and mine is that you know the guy's name. I said "one guy." You said "Smithey." Who knows if this "Smithey" character knows more or has any more experience than my "one guy?" (I know who Smithey is, I'm making an example.)

http://www.e-smithey.com/eclipse.html

Its much safer to trust accomplishments than opinions. 611whp is not everyday and for 2-liters of displacement, thats incredible. 600$ spent on a tubular manifold could be spent on upgrading to a ball-bearing turbo, which would have much more use that the manifold would. Again its up to "choice", but money can still be spent wisely.

Also I would not refer to Smithey as "one guy", more as "The Guy". I trust those who've done it before, not those who want to do it.

 

[MNGSX]

I'm still waiting for someone to build it.

1. 4 into 1 collector
2. short tube length with very few bends... none sharp
3. Cylinder 1&4 enter the collector in front of 2&3 making the lengths somewhat more equal.
4. Made from inconnel not stainless or mild steel. Either that or cast from the same stuff as FP30 turbine housings.
5. Jet hot coated plus a matching heatshield.

 

[autronicDSM]

you know you could do it yourself by buying collector and inconel piping from burns?

what do you mean 1&4 enter in front of 2&3. like this? if you're looking over stock manifold from front of a car

4 1
3 2

or

3 2
4 1

 

[MNGSX]

Head
4-1
3-2
Radiator

Burns Only stocks mild and ss colectors.

I'll wait for someone else to build it because I have'nt come close to running out of capability on the heavily ported 2g manifold.

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by RuBiCaNT5X
I was in that Group Buy until I recieved mine and it had the wrong flange on it for Mitsu turbo's. The inside of the flange is square like the T3/T4 variety. They have 30 of them made, however incorrectly. Besides the flange, the build quality seems top notch. All of the runners have supports on both edges and the SS thickness is around 2.7mm. Once they get the flange right, I could see buying one..

Matt stay away from those SS autochrome pieces of crap. I will post pics very soon of just how crappy they are. The construction is crap they crack and have a very poor reputation in the honda world and for the SR20 guys who have problems with them.

I bought one for the hell of it to match agains out honda manifolds and as soon as I get to the shop tomorrow i'll post pics of it so you can laugh at it.

Lets put it this way, it's very thin walled stainless welded to mild steel flanges. Ghetto...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&item=2462748773

There they are on ebay, the worst ever..:thumbdown

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

I'll take your word for it, Jim... I've come to the conclusion that a ported 2G or a ported Evo3 are probably the best thing if you don't want to spend 500 + coating for a DNP. Is it true that the Evo3 contain nickel wich resists cracking better than the 2G does?

 

[dsmturboawd]

ive never heard of that.

your 2g manifold probably wont crack so its really not worth worrying about.

 

[Tallen]

If it has not been mentioned. Stay away from any header thats mild steel (pacesetter headers for ~$200)