Tubular exhaust manifold vs. stock 2g

[93formula]

kpt4321, you are exactly right in what you are saying, there has to be a balance between flow and heat. The best setup for a track car and a street car are two different things. Now if I was building a all ot track car then, I would go tubular that was ceramic coated and heat wrapped to try to get the best of both worlds, but with repeated useage it would crack and break. Now to keep a tubular manifold on the street together for a long period of time, you can't heat wrap it. So, I think we can all agree that tubular will flow better but have less heat without wrap or anything to keep heat in right.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

You all need to do less theorizing about what might happen or what should happen, and just go buy something and try it. 75% of the threads in these forums are hypothetical's, and have 0 value for real life. Just like this thread.

Tubular is the way to go. Not because I said so, not because I run one, but because IT MAKES RESULTS. Tubular unwrapped manifolds are PROVEN to make power. Mine is jethot coated, just preference. You can get ceramic, but plan on it cracking.

 

[shootr350]

I understand that heat has a major part in why tubular manifolds crack but I was under the impression that it also had to do with the unsupported weight of the turbo in most cases that made them crack. Therefore by supporting the weight somehow you could eliminate the problem. This is only what I have read I have no experience to back it up but it makes sence.

 

[suicidal2af]

Well, to oppose many beliefs it is mainly heat that spools a turbo, flow does almost nothing to spool a turbo.

So if I put my turbo in the oven, how much boost will it produce? ^_^

 

[kooka]

so much for those remote mount turbo setups.

 

[ninjai_ruken]

you guys make my head hurt, I just used a log manifold. Why well becaues it works just fine and for the money I would have spent on a 420A Turbo Tube Manifold I could have bought some nice supporting mods for my car..Like my Wet Nitros System....Please Forgive my spelling im in a hurry gotta go to work

 

[djsven]

Hi,

My choice would be tubular for strip use only. And a ported EVO 3 or 2gen manifold for street / strip use. The other thing is, with SS equal length tubular manifold you don't want them wrapped. The reason why is that they expand with the heat. To much expansion might crack the welds. And don't be cheap with getting one, it is an investment!

I hope this might help!

Sincerely,

Sven

 

[slowpoke]

I have heard alot of bad things about wrapping the manifold. I really would like to hear from the people who have actually wrapped their cast manifold or tubular stainless manifold and it cracked on them. I am looking into getting a dnp manifold and I plan on wrapping it like the rest of my exhaust to keep the heat out of the engine compartment. If you respond, I would like to know how long have you had it and was it an everyday driver, rally car, or strip car.

Sorry for butting in on this thread but all I hear is people stating that it will be basically a disaster if you wrap it but don't have anything to show for it. Also, if you can post pics of your experience with it that would be great.

In my opinion, I think the only reason these manifolds will crack is just because of supporting the weight of the turbo. No matter how tight you wrap your manifold with exhaust wrap, it still should have no problems with the manifold expanding when heated up. Now I would also think it would protect the metal because it is not exposed to the cooler air. The heat will slowly cool down versus cooling down from exposed air right? Isn't that what you would want? A slower cooling down period to prevent the metal from cracking? Please somebody correct me if I am thinking wrong.

Thanks,

Gil

 

[Maglin]

Ok it's easy to make the hotter air more powerfull easy to understand for most people. Technically it's because 1lb of 30 degree air has far less volume than 1lb of 80 degree air. If you put air in a enclosure and heat it up it builds pressure. So the mass of air is the same but the volume is increased due to thermal expansion, and thus the same amount of air at a higher temp has more force on the turbin. But from the Trubo back you want that air to cool down as quickly as possible so that you decrease the volume and can create a low pressure which will help the turbo spool even faster as one side pushes and the other pulls air.

Ok maybe that wasn't an easy explaniation. I'm never good explaining things. But just a FYI Hotter air doesn't move any faster than cold air. Just has more volume. And a physics teacher would tell you this but also give some equasions and theory's along with it that most people won't understand.

Edit: The reason it works on turbo's is that the more volume moves faster than the smaller volume because the runners remain a constant size so it has to be pushed out faster.

 

[CanadianTalon]

I understand that heat has a major part in why tubular manifolds crack but I was under the impression that it also had to do with the unsupported weight of the turbo in most cases that made them crack. Therefore by supporting the weight somehow you could eliminate the problem. This is only what I have read I have no experience to back it up but it makes sence.

I have the unsupported weight of a gigantic straight T4 T67 on a full-race 304SS manifold, for over a year now of hard street use and it ias not cracked. Kid runs a full-race manifold on his 240SX with a T4 exhaust GT35R, for over a year now, no cracking. A well built tubular stainless manifold will not crack, it's the SSautochrome shit ones that you hear the horror stories of them cracking.

 

[Talonman]

Im going with a ceramic coated Pacesetter header which has a support bar welded between the turbo flange and head flange for support, I am also using an EVO3 16G (half wieght turbine housing) and a 122 Performance ss tubular 02 housing (very light compared to a stock cast 02 housing). Ill let you know if the header cracks, but this setup is as light as it gets so we'll see.

 

[eclipse98GST]

i recently installed the DNP stainless steal tubular manifold and i must say that it is one of the best purchaces ive made in a long time. My turbo now reaches full spool around 3000-3200 RPM instead before it was around 3400-3600. I have a 98gst with an evoIII 16g. It makes the car sound bad ass at high rpm too, its definetly worth the money. dont go with any of the mild steel ones like the pasesetter, go with the DN Performance.

 

[JamiesTSI]

I know I am getting on board a little late, but I thought I would chime in on this thread instead of starting a new one.

I am in the process of getting rid of my Turbonetics manifold and getting a DNP. I have read a lot of the posts on here about tubular mani's.

I see a lot of people talking about heat and flow rate. Are the runners equal length and what not.

My question is what about timing of the exhaust gas pulse? If this has been talked about sorry I must have missed it. My thoughts are your tubular runners would NOT be equal lenght, but be of a length so that all four gas pulses hit the turbine wheel at the same time, right? I agree that you will not lose that much heat going from the head to the turbo and that a larger flow area is better.

My thoughts behind thie timing thing are, as #1 fires and that pulse is travaling down the runner . Then #3 fires and its pulse starts down the runner you want them to meet at the collector at the same time correct?

 

[SpoolnTsi]

Are the runners equal length and what not.

With a DNP.......no. The #1 runner is about an inch short. No big deal if you ask me. I have yet to find a tube manifold with equal lenth runners except for the one RNR Racing carries for 800 freakin dollars.

My question is what about timing of the exhaust gas pulse? If this has been talked about sorry I must have missed it. My thoughts are your tubular runners would NOT be equal lenght, but be of a length so that all four gas pulses hit the turbine wheel at the same time, right?

Never happen because of the timing factor. Even if you could there would have to be fairly decent amound of difference with the length of the runners.

My thoughts behind thie timing thing are, as #1 fires and that pulse is travaling down the runner . Then #3 fires and its pulse starts down the runner you want them to meet at the collector at the same time correct?

Again the timing factor. #1 and 4 will fire at the same time. #1 and 3 do not fire at the same time therefore it would be impossible for those gases to reach the collecter at the same time, unless you had a difference in the length of runners but that would have to be a fairly large difference. If there is a difference of only an inch, it wouldnt make a difference. The exhaust gases travel so fast it could only be a difference of milla seconds by the time the gases reach the turbine wheel. I highly doubt you would be able to notice that. For someone to go out and have a custom made tube manifold so that all gas pulses would reach the collector or turbine wheel at the same time would be in for a big surpise, if it could even be done which i doubt. I posted a review of my DNP after installation and comparing it to the pacesetter, found here

 

[1fast97gsx]

Only way I could fit it in there.. we had a few complications, but the end result it what you see. I think it works better for a few reasons

http://www.kydsm.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=509

I like that idea a lot

 

[JamiesTSI]

Just to clairify, when I use the word timing in this thread I am refering to hours, minutes, seconds, etc..

Lets say as plug #1fires on the compresion strock and the valve opens. That exhaust pulse enters the runner. Lets say just for shits and giggles it takes 1 second for that one pulse to get to the collector.

Now plug #4 or #3 or #2 it does not matter, fires and its exhuast pulses enters the exhaust runner. Wouldn't you, in theory have to calculate the time it would take for it to meet the number one plugs pulse in the collector. Remember #1 has already fired and its exhaust pulse is in the manifold. And then in turn make the runner of such a length as to alow you to make them meet in the collector at the same time.

Just to keep the math simple. Lets say #1 pulse has already gone .25 of a second down the runner. IF the next plug to fire was #4 you would want to make the runner of such a length that it would take that pulse .75 of a second to get to the collector. Right?

Something tells me I am putting way to much thought into this.

I say "Lets say" way to much.

 

[Revolution]

Ok guys, After reading through two pages of interesting info I must say a few know what they are talking about and the rest are just clue less.

It's simple the term an equal "length" manifold is used in reference to the length of the runners , not the pulse durations. Most manifolds are'nt equal length , so who cares, less piping less weight. Some comments are borderline .

Heat wrap,, well tons of racers use it , Jesus Rivera uses it ,tons of cars use it , would it help crack a manifold ?, possibly because it traps moisture wich can cause long term damage,,Ie warping/cracking ? Go ahead and try . The real question is why spend money on heat wrap when you could get it jet hot coated? The coated jet black film wont rip or become worn like the wrap will, and guess what it takes no maintanence.

Why spend so much money on a dnp manifold or a full race manifold? Because a few ppl were emotionally driven into buying what some rich kids dad gave him for his birthday?

Their are tons of shops out their that sell this stuff wich in my opinion has the potential to out perform the dnp manifold.

A quick lesson is to be learned by paying attention ,the more length a runner has the more top end you will have ,with that said it's safe to say the bottom end was sacrificed right. Now if you were planning on doing some gymhkana (autocross) you want fast spool with great top end . If you do strictly drag then go for a full race peice that gives you optimal top end .


Now for all the lost boys and girls whom want to drive their cars from work to the grocery store and then home ,all while being able to stomp on any ricer ,would go for the the gymhkana setup . Why well you want spool , and if you say you dont then you'r lost and need to find an imaginary friend . So a manifold with two runners longer in the set of four would be the best compromise by giving you decent top end but still being able to spool you'r turbo within factory specs if not faster.

Tubulare manifolds are used to also physically change the personality of the car much like an afpr , different length runners equate to a different setting .

With all this said and done I will give you my pick for the manifold ,wich I would recomend .

http://www.koumotorsports.com/new_products.html


If you understood my post then you can appreciate this manifold, and if you'r like me and not bloody rich then you wont mind the price iether.

Plz keep in mind every cars setup is different ,so that means my results wont be the same as you'rs , and even if you had the same setup were different drivers.

So I'll tell everybody here the same thing I told my ex , Go out and see the world ,explore and try different things. Use you'r common sense and realize only you can make the decision , just dont come back crying you got herpies.

 

[Blue92]

That website needs a proof reader, it's Stainless steel not Stainless steal.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=925312

Enough said. Tubular manifolds are are so much better then cast that they are in an entirely different world of performance. Most people buy cheap ass autochrome/pacesetter crap, which is terribly designed and stupid. This is like saying turbo cars suck becuase you put a T15 on your 5 liter and it can't make any power. Gett something designed by full-race or love-fab and watch what happens. Spool and power will both increase significantly.

 

[kpt4321]

This thread is freaking horrible.

Almost every single person here doesn't understand anything about thermo. Heat not flow, heat and volume, heat and pressure... most of it is wrong.

Tubular manifolds make more power that a stock manifold. End of story.

 

[SpoolnTsi]

This thread is freaking horrible.

Almost every single person here doesn't understand anything about thermo. Heat not flow, heat and volume, heat and pressure... most of it is wrong.

If this thread is so freakin horrible, then why dont you explain it for everyone instead of just running your mouth then leaving without giving an explanation. That way people can refer to this thread in the future. Ontop of that, we have people that are trying give a reasonable explanation for the people that have questions reguarding this thread such as myself and other people, so we basically have no idea what the hell were talking about according to you.

Tubular manifolds make more power that a stock manifold. End of story.

Agreed. Tube manifolds will always put down more power compared to a cast manifold

 

[herostar]

This thread is freaking horrible.

Tubular manifolds make more power that a stock manifold. End of story.

Yes. Just what I was thinking...

I'd like some opinions on this manifold... looks decent, and has a great price. Anyone know if one could get that jet hot coated, and what it would cost....?
http://www.koumotorsports.com/new_products.html

 

[Revolution]

Hmm looks just like the one in my post

I have it and love it. Its actually made using mandrel ss bends and not welded sections ,so their's no abnormal hot spots on the manifold ,plus it has five support brackets. I like it alot ,,why wellbecause it made my evo 3 turbo spool much faster . I was pretty much hitting full boost at 2800-2900 rpm . Mind you my mods might not be the same as you'rs but if not for that manifold I would have been out alot of money.

If their was an award for the best deal around this one would be tied with kuo's o2 housing. So the same company sells these amazing quality parts for cheaper then anyone else. I recomend it ,to everyone , but dont take my word for it ,try it you'r self.

Or get some rich kids to do a power/spool/deal test with the dnp,and kou,and fullrace,,ahh and what the helll throw in the pace setterheader in their two. (most likley will never happen).

 

[gstrb91]

what is wrong with my car i floor it and it starts overheating unless i let go of the gas

 

[thekellbeast]

Stop hijacking the thread, make your own. There's a problem diagnosis forum for a reason.