trouble starting rebuilt engine, and strange timing belt problem

[mysticfire6602]

ok, so im cranking my car over to see if it will turn on in the last 5 minutes f vo tech today, and it doesnt start over. and i notice that the timing belt right between the 2 cam gears is jumping up and down , like its bouncing on a trampoline. im fairly sure the timing belt isnt supposed to do that. i checked the timing after all that and it was still fine so it didnt jump teeth or anything, but before i rebuilt the engine i remember it being nice and flat. and my auto tensioner is working properly, all my pullies are fine too.

 

[jay_rod24]

I dunno what u got going on but it is definitely not supposed to be jumping. When you place ur timing belt, the exhaust cam will want to turn a tooth out when you let go of the belt which has to be accounted for when you place them on the timing marks.

 

[mysticfire6602]

i know, i did that. the belt is brand new, its an OEM from mitsu. the belt has tension all over too. id rather not take it back off because it is a ROYAL PITA the get on, this is like the 5th time ive done it. my teacher was baffled on this problem too, he said maybe its the oil pump sprocket from the oil pump possibly pumping too much oil, but he said that sounded stupid. i am making 39 psi oil pressure.

 

[BlandAnalogy]

did you take specs on the engine when it was apart? you might wanna pull the head off and take specs on your cams. better yet the whole valve train. 1 slight bend in your camshaft can result in one huge disaster. how did specs turn out when it came to shaft endplays? did you prime the engine? if so what lubricant did you use to prime it? keep me posted and i'll be more than happy to try and help you out...

 

[mysticfire6602]

well one day when i was absent my teacher told me he checked out the cams because i asked him too. he told me that they were straight, not even a hair off. he said the lobes are in tip top shape. there is no endplay at all. when i assembled the engine i lubes up all bearings and things of the sort with lucas oil stabilizer, because that stuff makes great engine assembly lube. by priming the engine do you mean what oil did i use and how did i prime it? well i used castrol gtx 10w-30 and with the timing belt off i spun the pump with an electric drill and got the oil flowing.

 

[BlandAnalogy]

oops...

 

[BlandAnalogy]

i was taught to use vasoline when priming an engine. you basicly lube all the bearing journals with it. when you start it it takes a minute for the engine oil to start circulating. so thats priming an engine. there has to be some endplay. there are certain spec that you need to be within. how about the belts tension? is that ok? and how about the crankshaft. sounds like somethings not balanced right. id take a visual inspection of the engine, belts and pulleys.. what does your teacher have to say about it??

 

[mysticfire6602]

ok, there is endplay, i guess since its an engine i shouldnt just say that the tiny ammount is nothing, because it is important, im just tired right now. the can shafts and crank both have .001". the timing belt tension is 100% good. my teacher says in all his years rebuilding engines, he has used the same technique and it always works, now im sure lucas oil stabilizer wasnt out then, but he is a teacher and im sure he knows what he is doing. all the other belts are ok. and what do you mean something isnt balanced? do you mean like something isnt kosher between the crank and cams? or do you mean balance shaft problems? if you mean balance shaft problems, when i bought the car it didnt have a balance shaft belt on it and it ran fine. if you mean crank/cam problems, my teacher says its ok. ill try to answer your questions more acuretly next time.

 

[mysticfire6602]

oh yea, my teacher says the starter may not be spinning enough to start it, but that doesnt make any sense to me because my mighty max starts up after 2 really really weak cranks and the eclipse's starter is spinning faster than my trucks

 

[BlandAnalogy]

no need to explain man. im just trying to help you. and apparently im not helping much. now considering that the balance shaft IS the end of the crank shaft, that little or big harmonic balancer should sit there. is the harmonic balancer messed up? because it's very comon that they are. anyways your teacher is most likley an ASE mater. therfore i think you might wanna ask him what he thinks it is. at this point i really dont know. this doesnt really relate to this but how did the valve train and leak down test turn out? how much % of the air were you losing? ring gap sux!

 

[mysticfire6602]

the harmonic balancer is brand new from a mitsu dealer, so its good, a machine shop tested its balance. ok, assuming i did the leak down test right i had it up to 25 pounds with no leaks. i did a compression test with my new rings in there and i got 195 across the board

 

[BlandAnalogy]

no leaks at all? wow.. never seen that before. must have done a great valve job and must have some aftermarket dual piston rings to take away the ring gap.. gj man.. anyways take it easy

 

[mysticfire6602]

i sense some sarcasm there well like i said, assuming i did it right. i rebuilt the head myself, when i did the valves i cut them on our new valve cutter and i did a 3 angle valve job. idk. all i did to the rings, was install them in that x pattern according to all data, put them on, cranked the motor and i got 195 across the board. i dont really know what you expected/wanted me to say, but im just posting exactly what i got.

 

[BlandAnalogy]

it's all good man. it's just that it's pretty much impossible to do a leak down test and get and not to loose ANY air. you must be half way decent man. you have the equipment to bore out intake/exhaust ports and do 3/5 angle valve jobs? pretty sweet. you shoulda gone 5 angle.. o btw i dont think there's a precise way to check cam straightness.. keep up the good work bro. and learn from your mistakes. i like ya already.. if i gave ya any bull dont take it personal bro.. good shtuff..

 

[mysticfire6602]

ok, thanks. ya we have all that equipment, ive learned a hell of a lot at this vo tech. a 5 angle valve job? jesus. the 3 angle one was hard enough. about the cam straightness, im not positive, but i think my teacher ust put them in a lathe and spun them around. and besides that boring and valve equipment, we also have a completle machine shop in our shop, so we are acutally learning both shops at once.

 

[mysticfire6602]

ok, i am getting really pissed off. for 2 hours i tried starting my car today and it wont start. it really really wants to, but it doesnt. i have spark fuel and air, all connections are on and in the right place. wtf is the matter

 

[BlandAnalogy]

yup. i was just checkin to see if you knew the most precise way to check a cam for straightness. and that would be to use a lathe and a good ol dial indicator..

 

[BlandAnalogy]

so it's turning over then.. uh. check your starter..is it turning over slow at all? maybe the starter is spinning yet it doesnt engage/ disengage right????

 

[mysticfire6602]

no, its spinning pretty fast. i checked it before i put it back on and it was good. and another problem, as if i dont have enough as it is, when i turn the key on the oil light doesnt come on and when i crank the car the oil pressure gauge doesnt move at all. i know for a fact both of the conections are good. but any more suggestions on why the hell it wont start would be nice. if not i might just sell the damn thing and buy a reliable car

 

[mysticfire6602]

ok, i put the snap on scanner on it today and i got a code 41, which is a problem with the injector signal. and the coolant temp sensor is reading 70 farenhiet, so thats ok. im really at a loss right now... im so desperate to get it started that i had my teacher order me a set of NGK spark plugs for tomorrow just to see if that does the trick

 

[GTM]

no, its spinning pretty fast. i checked it before i put it back on and it was good. and another problem, as if i dont have enough as it is, when i turn the key on the oil light doesnt come on and when i crank the car the oil pressure gauge doesnt move at all. i know for a fact both of the conections are good. but any more suggestions on why the hell it wont start would be nice. if not i might just sell the damn thing and buy a reliable car

Is this the same engine that had no oil pressure when cranked? What was the outcome of that problem?

I don't suppose you loosened the cam gear bolt(s) while the belt was tensioned. This could certainly have caused them to not seat true and then wobble which would certainly cause belt flutter. You could have stretched the belt in a local area which would also cause this.

You are aware that if the oil pressure switch is not functioning correctly it will prevent the engine from starting? But here we are again with no oil pressure, use a test light just as I probably told you in the other thread.

I can't imagine why your instructor would have used a lathe when "V blocks" are the preferred method for checking for bent cams and cranks.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[mysticfire6602]

i had oil pressure, i fixed that problem, i got 39 psi when i spun the pump with an electric pump. no i didnt loosen the cam bolts. and about all that oil pressure switch stuff, both of the connectors are hooked up properly, ive quadruple checked, and no oil light comes on, the gauge doesnt even attempt to move. well he used a lathe because in his 30 some years of being an ASE master technician, that was his prefered method.

 

[GTM]

i had oil pressure, i fixed that problem, i got 39 psi when i spun the pump with an electric pump. no i didnt loosen the cam bolts. and about all that oil pressure switch stuff, both of the connectors are hooked up properly, ive quadruple checked, and no oil light comes on, the gauge doesnt even attempt to move. well he used a lathe because in his 30 some years of being an ASE master technician, that was his prefered method.

B.S. I am also a master with 40 years credentials, SAE, naval credentials and a plethora of others. I tire of this game, I did my best to help. I'm not here for your amusement or to have your incompetent insturctor thrown in my face. You don't need to quad the oil light, it works or not, next. Either answer or this thread will be closed at my request. Why is there a hole in the water pipe in your picture... I think you are having a game with us, you have had the best of the best trying to help and we have failed you.

Bottom line, I asked others to investigate and I will trust them.

GTM

 

[GTM]

B.S. I am also a master with 40 years credentials, SAE, naval credentials and a plethora of others. I tire of this game, I did my best to help. I'm not here for your amusement or to have your incompetent insturctor thrown in my face. You don't need to quad the oil light, it works or not, next. Either answer or this thread will be closed at my request. Why is there a hole in the water pipe in your picture... I think you are having a game with us, you have had the best of the best trying to help and we have failed you.

Bottom line, I asked others to investigate and I will trust them.

GTM

What is the name of the "school" and who is your instructor for I want his job. You failed to identify any of your pictures or the hole in the pipe.

Your oil pressure was bogus and this thread is also bogus. Give us a name, your friend's father's Ph., the school, the instructor. Some thing is putrid in Peru, before I waste any more of my life you (singular) had better come clean with me. I pulled the fire alarm because I can no longer be objective and treat this as anything but bogus. You have my apologies now and later if I have misread any of what you offed.

Again, either identify the pictures and my previous post along with my subsequent posts with questions or fade away. It is time to pay or get off the pot Beckey.

GTM

 

[mysticfire6602]

im gonna ask you to please leave this thread and all of my future threads. i am NOT bs'ing anyone. and when i said it was my teachers PREFERED method, i DIDNT say that it was THE BEST method. i am not having a god damn freking game with you, I WANT SOME DAMN HELP. MY FREAKING CAR WONT START AND YOU ARE CRITICISING ME FOR GIVING GOOD INFORMATION. and as i said in my other thread that you were helping me in, MY OIL LIGHT/GAUGE DIDNT WORK THEN, WHY WOULD IT WORK NOW. dont yell for overlooking your own information. AND MY ####ING OIL PRESSURE IS NOT BOGUE, WHEN IT'S BETWEEN THE 38 AND 40 PSI MARKS THAT MEANS ITS AT 39 PSI!! since your so interested in this, my teachers name is Mr. Brown. I am not going to give you my Vo Techs name. So either stop drinking 80 cups of coffee a day and listen to my problems and try to help, or leave this thread alone. you sir, are a jackass. good day